Chief Stipe Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 16 minutes ago, the galah said: I'm not talking about discounts.I'm talking about current realistic pricing to maintain the long term viability of the aspect of the industry you work in. There are other ways of doing that especially when you have no control over those things that are having the biggest impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Brodie are you a Cost Accountant? You have no idea what Woodlands consider to be a success or not. The fact is they are still the dominate player in the NZ market. You have no idea what there bottom line is nor their revenue and cost structure. At least one proabably more of their Stallions is fully booked for the next season. Na, I am not a boring Accountant, however I was very good in accounting when at High School lol. Woodlands have stated that the sale was a success for them and if that is their spiel for the industry rather than telling the truth, fair enough. Yes they are clearly successful breeders as their record shows, however the sale of half of their weanlings were at a financial loss so they have a very low level of what success is!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 2 hours ago, the galah said: I'm not talking about discounts.I'm talking about current realistic pricing to maintain the long term viability of the aspect of the industry you work in. so are you thinking 2k for bettors delight world champion sire instead of 25k 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, paleface adios said: so are you thinking 2k for bettors delight world champion sire instead of 25k Doesn't he have a full book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: Doesn't he have a full book? he would have a full book even if his fee was 50k 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 3 hours ago, paleface adios said: good mares go to good stallions bad mares go to poor stallions . is that the way it works Well lets say those that don't want to pay the 25k or the 20k for Bettor's Delight and Captain Treacherous . Two of the very best there is as we all know, they'll end up at a 'cheaper stallion' with their mare. whether she be good or bad by whatever criteria is being used 😆. and their chances of victory decrease the lower down the pecking order they go ............ 3 hours ago, Brodie said: Gamma, what i am hearing is that people have different interpretation of SUCCESS! So if I had a few punts and I lost money on them for the day, but it wasnt as big a loss as the week before, you are clearly saying that it was a successful day on the punt????? Unusual sort of analogy Brodster .. but I hear what you are saying but a Sale that gives something to the industry hard triers is a great idea really. Mt Negus got 6 or 7 lots I believe ? and Woodlands may of run at a loss in dollar terms but they still have the mares , and they got the exposure . (very cheap advertising) A horse sale is NOT as FRequent though as the constant weekly battle the Bookies v Punter engage in. But the benefits to them (Woodlands) are good too as Chief pointed out. And retail giants have Big Sales a couple of times a year, that might make them run at a loss (e.g like Myer and Davy Jones or whatever ) It's Just for the day. But the exposure is enormous... and good products are given to consumers. they return for More !!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Gammalite said: Well lets say those that don't want to pay the 25k or the 20k for Bettor's Delight and Captain Treacherous . Two of the very best there is as we all know, they'll end up at a 'cheaper stallion' with their mare. whether she be good or bad by whatever criteria is being used 😆. and their chances of victory decrease the lower down the pecking order they go ............ Unusual sort of analogy Brodster .. but I hear what you are saying but a Sale that gives something to the industry hard triers is a great idea really. Mt Negus got 6 or 7 lots I believe ? and Woodlands may of run at a loss in dollar terms but they still have the mares , and they got the exposure . (very cheap advertising) A horse sale is NOT as FRequent though as the constant weekly battle the Bookies v Punter engage in. But the benefits to them (Woodlands) are good too as Chief pointed out. And retail giants have Big Sales a couple of times a year, that might make them run at a loss (e.g like Myer and Davy Jones or whatever ) It's Just for the day. But the exposure is enormous... and good products are given to consumers. they return for More !!! Myers and Davy Jones markup is massive so they wont be selling stock at a loss and to be fair there is a big difference between a standardbred that is going to cost somewhere in excess of 50k minimum with breeding and racing for a season or two, and a bra at Myers! Anyway what Woodlands and Alabar do with their business doesnt affect me personally, a d hopefully they continue to do what they do, but personally believe that behind closed doors they will be evaluating why they are breeding horses that are not going to at least cover costs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 25 minutes ago, Brodie said: and a bra at Myers! what size are you? I'm a Double D fan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 hour ago, paleface adios said: what size are you? I'm a Double D fan At my stage of life be far too much to handle! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Brodie said: Anyway what Woodlands and Alabar do with their business doesnt affect me personally, a d hopefully they continue to do what they do, but personally believe that behind closed doors they will be evaluating why they are breeding horses that are not going to at least cover costs Hence they charge the appropriate amount Service Fee for their stallions that does 'cover their costs' and they stand terrific stallions and provide the industry with great quality options . Breeder or yearling/weanling Sale buyer. so all seems well with the kiwi harness world then . as far as the large stud farm's go ......(might be the 'Smaller' mobs that need some mares more I would think. ) They were selling weanlings Brodster . so costs won't be exactly huge or anything . not a lot of handling breaking in or or racing or shoeing or anything much yet. they are a Stud operation so are used to having foals around. guess horse feed (although don't you have lush green pasture Nz ? ) is on the way up in price these days though .. they better check those books and evaluate lol.😄😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Wow. I can't believe Brodie is the only one thinking the sale was a poor one. The spiel comes out after any horse auction but, sales figures do not lie and it would be hard to line up those sales prices and crow about them. I'm not sure what part of the Zed and Vance Hanover stories had flaws in them however the gist of both is the same; get numbers on the ground so a higher number of progeny are tried. Some top race horses by both stallions have been produced. Declining breeding numbers is not sudden and new. And let's face it anyone breeding, or involved in race horse ownership to be fair, are the world's biggest dreamers. Nothing wrong with dreaming. The Stable of Stars evolved concept is quite an inspirational story, concentrating on a quality product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 What I have learnt over the past few years is just how gullible people are!! Someone says something and it must be true! we have had over 5 years of absolute BS from Ardern and now Chippie and yet people believe what they say! No problem with Woodlands coming out and saying they had a great sale if they were happy with the result! We need Woodlands, Alabar etc. providing stallions and fosks so that racing can continue. At the end of the day it is their livelihood and hopefully purchasers will bag a bargain when they aren’t paying $2k for a weanling when the service fee is several times more than that alone. any other business and they would be broke pretty quickly however they can survive by charging huge service fees to the breeders who want to pay these fees! What I do know is that these breeders are dwindling and are future breeders in a position to want to pay these costs when the returns are so poor?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 13 hours ago, Special Agent said: I'm not sure what part of the Zed and Vance Hanover stories had flaws in them however the gist of both is the same; get numbers on the ground so a higher number of progeny are tried. Some top race horses by both stallions have been produced. Zed and Vance Hanover are two completely different scenarios. That said it only worked for both horses because they produced the goods. It took Zed a lot longer than Vance Hanover and if Zed hadn't been an upgrader then he would still be serving Clydsdales down in a South Island high country station. He spent 2 years out of the Thoroughbred action. I think it was Surprized and a couple of other tough horses that got him back. I'm not sure if the $500 fee was before or after his trip to the high country. As it is he has only sired two Grp1 winners. Now if your theory works why didn't it work for the Nakhle's stallion EGO which stood for free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Brodie said: What I do know is that these breeders are dwindling and are future breeders in a position to want to pay these costs when the returns are so poor?? The service fee is only a small part of the overall cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 55 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: The service fee is only a small part of the overall cost. Correct but you are well behind the eightball if you are spending $30k for a service and extras then training costs, hiding to nothing unless you have a top bred one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Brodie said: Correct but you are well behind the eightball if you are spending $30k for a service and extras then training costs, hiding to nothing unless you have a top bred one. It's the sport of kings mate. A big big chunck of the owners are millionaires or haven't you noticed that over the years? they quite expect to have a few losing horses (or pay a Service Fee with their mare.) Not going to be average 'Joe from the pub' racing horses. they're too busy losing their money on the punt lol.😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Now if your theory works why didn't it work for the Nakhle's stallion EGO which stood for free? I think you answered your own question. Zed and Vance Hanover produced the goods. Remember Sam Williams talking to Radio Trackside week in and week out promoting Zed. So, low fees and marketing will get the foals on the ground but, the stallion must leave winners for the equation to work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 15 hours ago, Gammalite said: It's the sport of kings mate. A big big chunck of the owners are millionaires or haven't you noticed that over the years? they quite expect to have a few losing horses (or pay a Service Fee with their mare.) Not going to be average 'Joe from the pub' racing horses. they're too busy losing their money on the punt lol.😆 Dont think Harness Racing is known as the sport of Kings? Thoroughbred racing more so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Brodie said: Dont think Harness Racing is known as the sport of Kings? Thoroughbred racing more so. Well we got a little bit of 'Swing ' going for a few years anyway Chief . The King reigned supreme 😎. What are we reduced to now then ? If not the sport of Kings ...(don't say puppets, paupers, muppets, pirates or floggers). they've all been taken already 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 On 13/06/2023 at 7:16 PM, Special Agent said: I think you answered your own question. Zed and Vance Hanover produced the goods. Remember Sam Williams talking to Radio Trackside week in and week out promoting Zed. So, low fees and marketing will get the foals on the ground but, the stallion must leave winners for the equation to work. Pity Radio Trackside wasn't around in Nat Lobells day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 On 14/06/2023 at 8:52 AM, Brodie said: Dont think Harness Racing is known as the sport of Kings? Thoroughbred racing more so. Sport of Gypsys ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 On 12/06/2023 at 5:22 PM, Brodie said: Na, I am not a boring Accountant, however I was very good in accounting when at High School lol. Did you find much changed with with the move to decimal currency ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Rangatira said: Sport of Gypsys ? sport of the best dressed man or rabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, paleface adios said: sport of the best dressed man or rabbit Currently the Millennium of the Rabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Bates Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Very few horses these days are raced by one person. Most have a multitude of owners. This makes it a lie that Harness owners are wealthy people. There are some wealthy people and they tend to own most of the horses racing in group races. The rest of the horses are raced by your average Joe, so perhaps Harness Racing should be named as the sport of the Average Joe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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