Chief Stipe Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 Trainers call for shorter Saturday www.racing.com A shorter race-day experience is key to the success of Racing Victoria's trial of a 10th Saturday race in Melbourne, several leading trainers have claimed. From next month, an extra race will be added to all Saturday metropolitan fixtures, with RV attempting to make up some of the shortfall in revenue due to a downturn in wagering over the second half of the current season. Veteran horseman Pat Carey believes the addition of a 10th race is 'workable', as long as authorities attempt to reduce the overall race-day footprint on a Saturday. He urged Sky Channel, which currently sets the national race clock, to work collaboratively with Victoria and New South Wales on suitable Saturday race times. "We've had 10 races on and off at different stages in the country and in the city at carnival times," Carey said. "I think 10 races is workable, but you need to have the timeframe right. "Obviously the race times are dictated to by Sky Channel and we need good cohesion between New South Wales and Victoria to ensure we can get a better result. "That half-hour (between races) model runs very well, so I don't know why it can't work well here with New South Wales doing the same." Mick Kent also wants to reduce the times between races on a Saturday and even believes 25-minute gaps should be considered. He has concerns about how the additional race will affect track management, particularly during the colder, wetter months. "I think through summer (it will work), but the tracks won't cope in the winter," Kent said. "Sure enough, they'll bet more later in the afternoon but what is going to happen if the first race is run even earlier? "The only way I can see it working is if we can compress race times and have 25 minutes between each race. "Can you imagine, being there for 10 races that are 40 minutes apart, how boring it's going to be and do we want to put a boring product on? "We're trying to grow the fan base." Fellow Cranbourne-based trainer Greg Eurell isn't a fan of the trial. "I'd be happy for it to stay the way it is," Eurell said. "I know they (RV) are trying to improve things for a benefit of the industry, but I think at the end of the day it takes its toll." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 11, 2023 Author Share Posted July 11, 2023 I suppose they are lucky to have the horse numbers waiting for a race to run in. Perhaps Entain could do their magic in Victoria as well as here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Sigh .... I can't help but think all of these ideas go around in circles. For as long as I can remember more races and more starters equalled more turnover. Then along came the likes of Bernard Saundry who went in the complete opposite direction and convinced (for want of a more derogatory word) some amongst us that the most profitable action was to have less race days and less races, and to close tracks because less of those too was going to make racing so much better. Then along comes Entain, considered the saviour of our racing, and they may be in the short term. What is their idea? Well bugger me it is to go back to pre-Saundry ideas ... more racing, more races, more runners equalling more turnover. What we are going to need will be more tracks, not less. Why would that be? Well wouldn't you think that tracks need regular reparation and rest to produce the best surfaces? And what about preparing the thoroughbred for race day? Don't you think there needs to be sufficient options for training, trialling and jumpouts? Forget about all weather tracks. They require more money for ongoing maintenance than the industry can muster, plus they are collectively going to break more horses down than the grass, sand and plough tracks that have been in operation for 100 years or more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 9 hours ago, Special Agent said: Sigh .... I can't help but think all of these ideas go around in circles. For as long as I can remember more races and more starters equalled more turnover. Then along came the likes of Bernard Saundry who went in the complete opposite direction and convinced (for want of a more derogatory word) some amongst us that the most profitable action was to have less race days and less races, and to close tracks because less of those too was going to make racing so much better. Then along comes Entain, considered the saviour of our racing, and they may be in the short term. What is their idea? Well bugger me it is to go back to pre-Saundry ideas ... more racing, more races, more runners equalling more turnover. What we are going to need will be more tracks, not less. Why would that be? Well wouldn't you think that tracks need regular reparation and rest to produce the best surfaces? And what about preparing the thoroughbred for race day? Don't you think there needs to be sufficient options for training, trialling and jumpouts? Forget about all weather tracks. They require more money for ongoing maintenance than the industry can muster, plus they are collectively going to break more horses down than the grass, sand and plough tracks that have been in operation for 100 years or more. Interesting discussion. I was just thinking the other day what a waste it was not having a galloping meeting this coming Sunday. A Timaru meeting in the south would have fitted perfectly. Probably manage 10 races and on an almost firm track. 11 or 12 days between southern meetings and this week's was on the AWT. I would think Entain would be keen to use many more Fridays and Sundays than are currently utilised for the gallops. The only thing I can recall seeing so far is announcements about stakes. What about some action on dates and programming? What an embarrassment Ruakaka is this weekend. All the hype about qualifying races and order of entry etc, and not a single ballot on the entire card, and they had to programme a maiden at the last minute to get 8 races. 7 and 9 starters for $60,000 races. Wait till the new season when we regularly have $50,000 and $40,000 going around with tiny fields. NZTR seem to think decent horses will just miraculously turn up to fill those fields. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 13 hours ago, Doomed said: Interesting discussion. I was just thinking the other day what a waste it was not having a galloping meeting this coming Sunday. A Timaru meeting in the south would have fitted perfectly. Probably manage 10 races and on an almost firm track. 11 or 12 days between southern meetings and this week's was on the AWT. I would think Entain would be keen to use many more Fridays and Sundays than are currently utilised for the gallops. The only thing I can recall seeing so far is announcements about stakes. What about some action on dates and programming? What an embarrassment Ruakaka is this weekend. All the hype about qualifying races and order of entry etc, and not a single ballot on the entire card, and they had to programme a maiden at the last minute to get 8 races. 7 and 9 starters for $60,000 races. Wait till the new season when we regularly have $50,000 and $40,000 going around with tiny fields. NZTR seem to think decent horses will just miraculously turn up to fill those fields. Doomed, what makes you think a race on a better track a few weeks out from the Grand National meeting would be a good idea? More stakes announced as you say. This contrasts what we have heard from NZTR since who knows when that throwing money at the problem is not right but, now someone else is footing that bill it's a great idea. As far as small fields with better stakes is concerned, wasn't the cry to be more like Australia? It looks like a good time to put that extra horse into work while you can. Take the money and run. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 Maybe we'll see some innovative ideas in the new season. Probably we're being a bit harsh expecting major reshuffling before the season ends....but handicapping, programming and dates have been the subject of much discussion for a fair while with no discernable improvement. And to quote Nick Roberts ( again) - throwing money at the status quo is not sustainable. As S.A. reckons, take the money and run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 13, 2023 Author Share Posted July 13, 2023 Will the "Sustainable Initiative" application process be open and transparent? I would bet not. Both TABNZ and NZTR have become less open and transparent since the Messara Report. With Entain it will become even less transparent due to "commercial reasons". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 12 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Both TABNZ and NZTR have become less open and transparent since the Messara Report. With Entain it will become even less transparent due to "commercial reasons". Less open, less transparent and even less trustworthy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 (edited) On 7/13/2023 at 6:40 PM, Doomed said: Interesting discussion. I was just thinking the other day what a waste it was not having a galloping meeting this coming Sunday. A Timaru meeting in the south would have fitted perfectly. Probably manage 10 races and on an almost firm track. 11 or 12 days between southern meetings and this week's was on the AWT. I would think Entain would be keen to use many more Fridays and Sundays than are currently utilised for the gallops. The only thing I can recall seeing so far is announcements about stakes. What about some action on dates and programming? What an embarrassment Ruakaka is this weekend. All the hype about qualifying races and order of entry etc, and not a single ballot on the entire card, and they had to programme a maiden at the last minute to get 8 races. 7 and 9 starters for $60,000 races. Wait till the new season when we regularly have $50,000 and $40,000 going around with tiny fields. NZTR seem to think decent horses will just miraculously turn up to fill those fields. Doomed you like I always go into bat for Timaru being used more, I noted there was a day in the calendar on Sunday where a meeting at Washdyke was probably a good idea, not sure about your assumption their being a firm track, at this time of year could.easy.strike a day like Wingatui got. I note next month Oamaru race on a Friday after.Grand National week and have programmed a open handicap, numbers will more than likely be thin, that day is better for the AWT and Oamaru maybe a week later but as I've stated before, what do I know. Edited July 17, 2023 by mikeynz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 On 13/07/2023 at 6:40 PM, Doomed said: I The only thing I can recall seeing so far is announcements about stakes. What about some action on dates and programming? What an embarrassment Ruakaka is this weekend. All the hype about qualifying races and order of entry etc, and not a single ballot on the entire card, and they had to programme a maiden at the last minute to get 8 races. 7 and 9 starters for $60,000 races. Wait till the new season when we regularly have $50,000 and $40,000 going around with tiny fields. NZTR seem to think decent horses will just miraculously turn up to fill those fields. Agree , I think trainners are working out that Ruakaka isn't the winter nirvana its made out to be & watch it get left behind once they throw everything at Ellerslie. The problem is a lot deeper as you allude to, horse population another issue on the way. More races for slower horses required to keep them in work perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) On 7/13/2023 at 6:40 PM, Doomed said: Interesting discussion. I was just thinking the other day what a waste it was not having a galloping meeting this coming Sunday. A Timaru meeting in the south would have fitted perfectly. Probably manage 10 races and on an almost firm track. 11 or 12 days between southern meetings and this week's was on the AWT. I would think Entain would be keen to use many more Fridays and Sundays than are currently utilised for the gallops. Slightly off topic but j note the Beaumont meeting at Wingatui has been moved to the Sunday and the Forbury harness races are no more, that seems odd as a trotting meeting is at Oamaru same day, 2 meetings so close. Mondays seem to be out of favour except for Public holidays and I've thought that Mondays and Tuesdays maybe be non trackside days to cut cost thus being more profitable. It must cost the same to cover those non event greyhound meetings yet turnover suggest not many give a shit. Basically we only race Wednesdays to Sunday plus holiday times and of course 2 Tuesdays in November. More is not always best Just a thought. Edited July 25, 2023 by mikeynz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 On 7/19/2023 at 7:28 AM, Huey said: Ruakaka isn't the winter nirvana its made out to be horse population another issue on the way. More races for slower horses required to keep them in work perhaps? Northland is in the midst of an extremely wet 12 months or more so, the statistics on wet tracks there may be askew. Horse population is going to be dire. I'm not sure that innovations are factoring that in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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