Chief Stipe

Given he is now effectively banned I'd want to see the money in my bank account before handing the horse over.

Of course there aren't enough lush paddocks but some are arguing for a cradle to a natural grave policy. It is unachieveable. But where is the line drawn? There is legislation regarding animal welfare and there are rules within the jurisdiction of HRNZ. Again some are arguing for a cradle to the grave policy. You admit and we both know that such a policy is impractical. Going anywhere down that path only weakens the economics of the sport and I would argue that is the reason some are pursuing that policy. I doubt any equestrian centre will offer you anything for a standardbred. Since when has Ben Yole been offering $20k for a standardbred that can't compete in NZ? Regardless isn't it the choice of the owner what they do with their horse? You may find their descision morally reprehensible but it is their descision. It isn't the role of HRNZ to regulate who someone can sell their horse to.

Geez you write some BS - and you wonder why officials don't listen to you? The fact is your statistics are biased and flawed. In fact they and the conclusions you write are misinformation.

So if we low ball the figures then we have 2,000 harness horses born per year to look after for 25 years (assuming they are well looked after). 50,000 horses to care for annually requiring 38,000 hectares of land growing good grass assuming you are not going to stable them. Seems a programme for economic disaster!

Impossible to stipulate that and even if it was possible there are numerous ways to get around it. Regardless I think a few of the fairy tail group need to harden up and accept the reality that the cost of supporting EVERY race horse or up to 30 years of their lives is prohibitive. I also think you are conveniently forgetting the practices of the past when you wallow in a nostalgic view of times gone by. Or you've never been that closely associated with the rigours of day to day 24/7 horse training.

You read your own posts?

You only need 2 for a race. I have no problem with small 2yr old fields. Large fields are normally a disaster for babies anyway. They have to start somewhere. Any complaints about wagerimg revenue can be nullified by just mentioning the return on the KM races.

You are contradicting yourself! If they are not to blame for the allocation of stakes you can't give them credit either. How? I haven't seen any evidence of a change in programming. They are still doing the same old same old. @curious mentioned Einstein's definition of insanity. Bollocks. The programmers did whoever the nameless creatures are. Equally you could say Ellerslie "let Jumps racing go". Supposedly to build a hidden 2m litre water tank. Correct me if I'm wrong but Entain have NOTHING to do with programming races. Obviously you haven't listened to the trainers that are complaining on both islands. Both elite and battlers.

I'm sure they'll have video footage.

Yes it is however it is up to HRNZ to keep our house in order not someone elses.

You are getting the cart before the horse. The programming is up to NZTR and individual allocation of race stakes funding is up to NZTR. Surely you are not suggesting that Entain are running everything? You really do talk like an adminstrator when you say that it is up to the trainers/owners. Most in the industry would say that they are being hindered by the poor programming. Not to mention the handicapping system.

Are you saying that Entain are now determining the racing calendar?

No Entain have promised the funding (even if they have to subsidise it) - NZTR decided how the funding is distributed in terms of Stakes.

Racing is built on emotion but at the end of the day there are very real practicalities that come into play. If you let emotion rule and elevate the equine higher than any other livestock then we open ourselves up to all sorts of issues that ultimately will result in the demise of the industry. The new woke will slowly chip away at every practice involved in racing. Shoeing (not natural), lugging bits, twitches, hobbles, whips and so on.

Don't fish have feelings?

What's the alternative?!

Breeding and racing horses is a tough game, a hard game. Just like any other industry it has morally corrupt and unscrupulous participants. They get caught out eventually. HRNZ needs to focus here NOT there. Some of us can afford to be all nostalgic about the past and about the great horses. But just like any livestock industry there are some harsh realities.

Obviously there are quite a few owners and breeders that are willing to sell their horses to whoever has the money to buy them. What a novel concept! How do you determine who is a worthy buyer? Who would ever consider buying a horse if it came with a condition that the owner had to look after it for 30 years!!

I disagree. I still care about horses but you can't look after them all from the cradle to the grave. One of my farming mates always got his children to name the pet lamb - Lamb Chop and the pet calf - T-bone or cuts thereof. But if you want to own a horse and look after it for 30 years then go for it. Legislating that that should happen for every horse would well and truly end the racing industry.

What if they determine you are not worth their time of day? Perhaps they have already determined that.

What you are suggesting that HRNZ can dictate who breeders or owners can sell their horses to? Aren't they struggling enough? It's the type of policy @holy ravioli would like from an idealogical perspective. Where do you draw the line? The cradle to the grave policy is already imposing excessive costs on the industry. The reality is some horses will end up as dog tucker - that's the reality of farming.

My point too. What you think the Wellington Cup was any better? The first two are quite good fillies but the 2yr old pattern gets screwed by the Karaka Millions. Been run for other 40 years and some top horses have won it. For obvious reasons it struggles. Now prior to the KM the pattern points only to the KM - they need to fix the alternative path for those horses that are KM ineligible.

Has there been many 2yr old races in the South this year or even for the season?

Never @the galah or @Gammalite have convinced me that NZTR or HRNZ have an obligation or even a right to pontificate from a perceived higher moral ground about things going on in another country let alone another jurisdiction. Both have enough to get right in their own jurisdictions and many would argue that they barely get a pass mark.