Chief Stipe

I don't get your point.

Oh and didn't Black Caviar win 2 at 2yrs old?

I was referring to NZ trained horses. However Makybe Diva would be on the cusp of 15 years. However Makybe Diva did trial at 2 and won 17 days later as a 3yr old. Winx had two starts as a 2 yr old and won both. 2 trials before that that starting in May. That's bigger than most 2yr olds.

Yep. But here's an interesting fact. The best performed horses in NZ and OZ over the last 20 years have been mares who had big 2 yr old years.

Getting rid of Motukarara is a travesty.

Because you have people administrating that don't know race horses.

Actually I bet every gallop she does is I bandages.

We always used to bandage and boot our horses in fast work or racing buy that was harness. I bet Imperatriz galloped in bandages today.

It's a competitive sport - winning has always been first. Over time science and techniques have changed. You either keep up or go home.

BELOW THE TURF maybe. But solely sand in the top layer is a recipe for disaster. I note Imperatriz ran around on the Moonee Valley StrathAyr today and love it.

I can't work out why there was so much sand in the top 5cms as evident in the cores I picked up. That may explain why the roots matted in the top layer and why there may have been water tension of the next layer down was significantly different in soil structure. I would have thought that soil would have been consistent through all layers except the very lower layers which would of a type to facilitate rapid excess water removal. If they are coring already then it may need to continue on a regular basis. Next they'll be poring more sand onto it to fill the cores!!! Te Rapa springs to mind.

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In answer to the Topic title - YES. Any variance measures?

So you let them experience pain? Or is the issue racing a horse when there is an underlying condition that hasn't been treated?

Really @Freda we are talking about Horse Racing not the Pony Club. The very act of training a race horse has to cause stress to elicit the physical and mental responses necessary to compete at a high level of performance. That stress involves pain. That's a fact not shit. A trainer has to manage injury prevention and those stresses that cause pain or injury. But if you think that a horse racing at peak fitness doesn't experience any pain even momentarily then you are in dreamland. Post race techniques are all about managing that stress, the inflammation and the associated pain. It might be an ice bath, it might be a walk in the surf at the beach, it might be a dose of bicarbonate to manage the lactic acid build up.

Do you mean Thayne Green? I understand he's very much alive and kicking.

Thanks. What would any answers achieve?

All elite athletes hurt. You train them to cope with that.

Can you give us all a succinct paragraph explaining what this thread is about?

Or he was happy not to punish his horse who was giving everything it could. You don't punish a horse who is putting in otherwise you sour them.

So Chazza you've given up on Dog welfare and race injuries?

Exactly define "vigour"? He should have done a Ben Hope and done a helicopter wave with both arms! What did he gain from coming second?

So treatments to reduce inflamation are a waste of time? An inflammatory response which is closely linked to pain is an early indicator of injury. Long term inflammation can be deleterious to recovery.

Are you asking or saying? Doesn't it have a lower witholding time than bute?

Define "enough vigour". Would a couple more cracks with the whip been enough?