Chief Stipe

That's three of the easy questions.

Yeah drawn at 20 and you have a few corners to get round at Caulfield.

Between 1962 and 1995 a Sire figured in the pedigree of 24 of the 33 Cup Winners. What was the name of the Sire? Who was his two most famous sons? One won an Interdominion in Sydney. The other won two NZ Cups. Which Cup did the Sire Quinella and was the Sire of the Dam of the third horse? Name the Quinella. What was the name of the third horse? How many Cups did he win and how many did he sire? The Winner of this Cup was trained and driven for an Owner who went on to Own, Train and Drive his own Cup winner as an Amateur (possibly the only person to do so). What was the name of the Owner? The Trainer and Driver of the winner drove a non-placegetter in this Cup to win the Auckland Cup. What was the name of the horse?

I can't see Incentivise getting beaten. Maybe the Caulfield track factor might undo him! If the track keeps getting softer I like Montefilia. Currently a Soft 5 with a high probability of more heavy rain forecast later today.

What race is he in? Or are you not sure?

I've got a really good supplementary question for you @Gammalite relating to this race.

I wont answer as I mentioned the second horse in my Methven Glory Days post. The other answer is easy too.......I actually patted the horse in question near the end of his days.

No worries. As I said I just happened to stumble across that meeting. I must say that HRNZ have much much more historical data than NZTR (Luurvve Racing!). I remember a similar day at the Hororata Cup where in between races we were all picking "Horse" mushrooms out in the centre field. You can't do that today besides the fact that the Hororata racecourse is no more.

But wait there's more! For the trainspotters. A NZ Trotting Cup winner ran that day but was only second. A NZ Oaks winner ran that day but was only third. A NZ FFA winner. Two Hanon Memorial winners (trick question). Two New Brighton Cup winners. A Kaikoura Cup winner. A Flying Stakes winner. A Methven Cup winner. A Northern Trotting Derby winner was entered but scratched. I'm sure I've missed some and I'm sure that the breeding buffs will find some links back to those that ran that day. If not the horses certainly the Trainers and Drivers!!!

As usual one of @Gammalite's blasts from the past reminded me of a big day in racing I attended as a young chap. A Saturday meeting at Methven 23 March 1974. A vision of horses too many to count and vibrant colours of stripes, checks, sash bands, crosses, fleur-de-lis. A boot picnic in the back of Dad's brand new XB Falcon Sedan amongst many boot picnics. Kids playing tag and rugby. The incessant ringing of Tote bells, the semaphore board with the balloon and drivers names some perfectly painted others mere chalk marks. A straight line indicating a scratching of which there were very few on that day. We had travelled over from the West Coast for the day as had my best school mate and his father. We were National supporters and they true red Labourites. But our fathers were good friends (most of the time), business partners and often rivals in the small town of Hokitika. We had a horse racing - High Chaparral (Hi Lo Forbes - Sarona). They had McOscar (Spark Gap - Young Val). Like most things both families competed in both horses had similar ability and ended up winning 6 races. Anyway that isn't the main point of this post. The mention of Trusty Scot and Trevira spiked the memory as it was the era that our family rivalry was at its peak - the mid 70's. So I researched the history of High Chaparral (stable name Alan) looking for Trusty Scot and Trevira. I found that we had beaten Trevira and Micron in the same race at the Met. But then I just happened on this race meeting at Methven. I've had a long repeating nightmare of getting lost at the races. Hard to imagine that happening today. Ever since my first introduction to racing as a young child I've always gone down to the stables on raceday to pat the horses - loved the smell of well cared for leather, the dung, the hay and horse feed and the vibrancy as horses acted up and carts were shifted around. People discussing tactics, money changing hands for bets on the tote. I swear I got lost that day trying to find the stable horses. Horses were tied to trees and fence posts. The visitors had stalls which was a godsend as it was a very hot and sunny day. Climate change was at its peak! Our horse had travelled from Richmond Park near Nelson - my mates horse from just down the road somewhere near a place called the Golden Mile. I know now why I got lost that day and why the memory is so vivid. 250 horses started that day in 12 races!!! Yes TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY starters!!! Yes 20 horses in a race! Methven Trotting Club Results 23 March 1974 Race 1 - a non-tote Maiden Pace over 2600m $800 Stake - 19 starters. Race 2 - Handicap Trot (First Division) - 2600m $1,000 Stake - 21 starters. Race 3 - Handicap Trot (2nd Division) - 21 starters - harder division than the first one! Southern Comfort, Ambro Lady, Waitaki Gamble. Nearly all of the starters in this race went on to win 3 or more races! Race 4 - C0 Pace - (First Division) - 2600m $1,000 Stake - 19 Starters. Won by Just A Glow. Race 5 - C0 Pace - (2nd Division) - 19 Starters - a locked wheels and a fall in this race which added to the excitement. Race 6 - C1 Pace - Handicap - 2600m $1,200 Stake - 19 Starters. Race 7 - Methven 2yr Old Stakes - 2000m $1,500 Stake - 17 Starters!!! Maurie Holmes won driving Sly Kiwi beating In Or Out, Commissioner, Steven Stock, Golden Nurse. Race 8 - J McCloy Memorial Handicap - C5 & Faster - 3,200m $2,600 Stake - 16 Starters. Won by Leicester Tatterson's (a name from the past!) Kotare Legend, Lunar Chance was Second. Noble Charles driven by a toothless Keithy Powell from Westport was a close fourth, High Chaparral went a great race but got caught in traffic (not surprisingly!) and finished 6th. Race 9 - C1 Pace Handicap No2 - 2600m $1,200 Stake - 17 Starters. Race 10 - C2 Pace Handicap - 2600m $1,400 Stake - 18 Starters. Won by Chatterton. McOscar finished 14th driven by the Junior Driver - Michael DeFilippi (one of my mum's cousins). Race 11 - Handicap Trot - C2 & Faster - 3200m $1,400 Stake - 22 Starters!!! A dead heat for third. Took them an age to develop the photo. Race 12 - L L Richards Memorial Handicap - C3 & Faster Pace - 2000m $1,600 Stake. Palestine won driven by Terry May beating Brockworth Ace, Glentohi. Drivers that went round in their good old Bryant Hickory Shaft Sulky's: Maurie Holmes - the Master! Georgie Shand Felix Newfield Jack Smolenski Michael DeFilippi (Jnr) Freeman Holmes Ted Lowe Georgie Adamson Reggie Stockdale Robert Cameron P O'Reilly (SNR!) Derek Jones R Butt M Butt Jack Carmichael L May Alistair Purdon Robert Dunn (JNR - the first) Denis Nyhan I Sutherland J Hampton Keithy Powell Wes Butt Cecil Devine E Skinner Richard "Rails" Brosnan Doody Townley Plus many others! I don't think one driver drove in every race. If I remember correctly the Division races were run straight after each other. In those days there used to be a big paddock in the middle of the course where the second division would circle waiting for the finish of the first division.

Lord Module was in the race as was Wee WIN.

No I realise now your were winding someone up. I thought it was another quiz.

Those tights are nutcrackers eh!

Got me stumped. I suspect it might be a Free For All rather than the cup.

Not in the Cup.

Is that actually a photo of a NZ Cup finish or another race?

Who'd be the driver now as Ross Cameron is out for three months.

@the galah the video isn't the truth as the concept of truth is a human construct. The video only records what happened not why it happened or necessarily how it happened. The video shows Cameron going to the inside when he could have gone to the outside - that's a fact and is recorded. You could say that that is the truth. However you can't say that he made a mistake and call it the truth. That is your subjective opinion. Sure it may have more weight than any other alternative but it you can't call it the truth. But close scrutiny to find out if there was any skulduggery or attempt to deceive or gain advantage. Driver's make mistakes - some more than others and that is reflected in the price on offer. You make an assessment on value using a number of factors of which Driver ability and skill is one albeit minor in relation to horse ability. That said if Blair Orange was driving Saginaw it would pay less than if Ross Cameron was. The value proposition may or may not be different given the risk is reflected in the price.

Trouble and Strife is always right.

So in August 2018 you were in Pahang, Malaysia and paid $220 a ticket to see a ballet. Did you video it so we can see the truth?

Yes. But the work was done well before race day. Waller has been reported as deliberately tackling the problem in training and trials. Now you are going to say that well had nothing to do with JMac in the first instance. Correct. But that doesn't negate the fact that some horses settle better for some Jockey's and their riding styles than others. I've seen if first hand with the horses I've owned. One horse hated Michael Walker and tossed him behind the gates. Didn't gallop off just tossed him. Never did that with any other Jockey. Back to JMac - my assessment of his style is he only goes forward onto the pace if he has no option or the horse takes him there. Otherwise he sits just behind the pace or back further and then times a run. You may well have a different opinion. Contrary to what you think it isn't a pissing contest.

You entirely miss the point which isn't surprising as your whole raison d'etre appears to be one of attacking the Chief Stipe. JMac is a champion Jockey of which there is no disagreement. However in your blind adulation and/or blinding raison d'etre you ignore the fact that he does have "off" periods and that some horses don't relax or work with his style of riding. With regard to Nature Strip I suppose you say the fact that he settled for Jamie Kah was all about Nature Strip and not the Jockey? Or was it to do with Waller changing Nature Strip's training and working on getting him to settle?

Still waiting for OZ Stakes to be "pruned".

You say "a video doesn't lie" - a video doesn't have the capacity to lie nor does it have the capacity to tell the truth. A lie and the truth are human constructs. A video just records an event. Even then the event recording can be influenced by those doing the recording and producing the video. Those that view the video don't ignore the evidence insofar as they only interpret the video representation of reality. That interpretation is subjective and is variable. In harness racing the only person who knows the truth is the driver. In Ross Cameron's situation he made a decision and took a course of action which he thought was the right one. In hindsight it was possibly the wrong one however we can't predict or confirm what the outcome would have been if he had chosen differently. The only question that the Stewards can ask and seek to answer is was the decision a mistake or was it a deliberate action. In Saginaw's case there was no evidence saying that Cameron gained from the action he took therefore on the balance of probabilities one could conclude that the action was a mistake and not deliberate. However there is another lesser charge in the Saginaw case and that is did Cameron not perform to a high enough standard. That raises a whole lot of questions about standards and how they are set which are even more subjective. @JTeaz says that the interests of the punter is paramount however the punter discounts the price when a known driver of less skills is engaged. Yet when it comes down to the penalty that discount is not considered. Cameron is treated as if he was a top line driver and his penalty is extrapolated to match. Tim Williams doesn't pull the ear muffs until very late (Cameron pulled Saginaw's at the top of the straight), shows very little vigour until the inside horse fights back and gets beaten a nostril on the hot favourite. Charges are dropped!!! There is no full investigation, no checking of betting records or any of the other actions that was taken in the Cameron case. We all still wonder why INCA has yet to score a goal!