Thomass

Fair enough... She appears to be improving with racing though? And NEVER underestimate gear, Waller got hold of Very Elligent and sorted hers out...same ear cover regime now...and improved again with VB's The owner's not in good health..perhaps he's looking for FUN over Xmas and those 2 staying races? Say what you like about Rogie though...without his runners actually 'racing', field numbers would be way down....same as Myers...some trainers adjust training regimes to simply 'race' them into fitness then form don't they? Bill Sanders did the same...Tommy Smith...

Mate it's called a DEBATE... The premises of a debate are the other propositions that are either assumed or accepted to whence we come to a conclusion after both sides of the propositions are aired ...which I did So you want to keep the needless status quo...entailing pain, unsightlyness and free advertising... ..at the expense of BEAUTY? Have you no appreciation of BEAUTY? Ill send you a pik if you like?

Interesting article in TDN today.... And very interesting the remarks of Racing Vic. CEO.... Featured article 1 of 16 The Discussion: Whip Debate Written by Bren O'Brien Edition Article 9 min read With the whip debate again dominating discussion, TDN AusNZ takes an in-depth look at the complex issue and speaks to a current jockey and a former champion about the cases for and against change. The conversation over the desirability of the whip in racing is something that often rears its head and with so much focus on equine welfare this spring, it is hardly surprising to see the debate again front and centre. There have been a variety of opinions emerge from jockeys, trainers, owners, breeders and regulators, but the overwhelming trend is that more people than ever are in favour of banning the whip. The debate within the thoroughbred industry invariably focusses on the public perception issues of jockeys' use of the whip in the context of shifting community attitudes towards what constitutes the proper treatment of animals. While there are a broad range of perspectives from different stakeholders, it is the opinion of those who utilise it as a tool every day, the jockeys themselves, which should hold greatest weight. That is why Chris Symons' decision to raise the issue of the public’s perception of whip use on Melbourne radio last week was so significant. Symons may not be the highest profile jockey in the ranks, but the 37-year-old has a wealth of experience in the saddle and he believes it's time for a discussion about the whip. When TDN AusNZ spoke to Symons a few days after that interview, he was decidedly more cautious about the tone he struck. The whip issue is a vexed one in racing and he admitted had felt the heat of expressing his thoughts. Chris Symons "I got whacked on the head [regarding media comments] and it is what it is. But I didn't not think that that was going to happen. I knew that as soon as I said something, that there was potential backlash," he said. "I just know that based on where I sit at the moment, looking sometimes from the other side of the fence, that there seems to be an issue. We can bury our heads in the sand if we want, or we can rise up and say how do we get on top of it?" Symons' passion for racing and animal welfare can not be undersold. Through his animal theme park, The Funky Farm, he is exposed more than most to prevailing community attitudes about the treatment of animals. He says he is not an advocate for change but is an advocate for the ability to sit down and have a proper discussion. Michelle Payne was another supporter of banning the whip "Do I think (banning the whip) is the right direction to go in? I don’t know. But is the industry in a bit of a crisis at the moment when it comes to animal welfare? I'd say yes," he said. "We can keep saying, let’s keep telling everybody to nick off, or we can have a proper discussion." Symons' initial comments drew support from Melbourne Cup winning jockey Michelle Payne, while Victorian Jockeys Association Matt Hyland said it was something that would be discussed among the 180 members of his organisation, but that its position was to retain the use of the whip in races. Whip comments strike a chord across industry The prospect of a ban on the whip drew support from significant industry figures on social media, including Newgate's Henry Field, who urged the Australian industry to be world leaders in implementing change. Lloyd Williams, one of the most influential owners of the past 30 years in Australia and the winner of the Melbourne Cup on six occasions, was quoted last month of his desire to see an end to the use of whip in races. “Australia needs to be at the forefront and withdraw the whip,” Williams told the Herald-Sun. “If we are not proactive, the industry will be lucky to survive. “If the industry doesn’t do something, it will be done for them. The world has changed. I have seen some research. The whip has to go.” Willams (right) urged the industry to be proactive in order to survive Williams' opinion saw the whip debate bubble to the surface again and prompted a response from Racing Victoria CEO Giles Thompson which raised a few eyebrows across the industry. "This is a debate that has been around a long time and will continue until the whip is banned," Thompson told RSN. "I don’t see the whip being sustainable in the long term. The question for us in racing, is how do we make that inevitable transition and when do we make that inevitable transition." 'A sad day for racing ' The sense of inevitability around the whip discussion is something that worries former Champion jockey and now Hall Of Fame trainer Ron Quinton. "Unfortunately, the future for the whip is not looking too bright. A whip to a jockey, it's a tool of trade. It’s not so much about the aggressive whip riding or anything like that, it’s a guide for the jockey to use with that horse, particularly young horses," Quinton said. Quinton pointed out that whip use had continued to evolve with community standards and he doesn't see a compelling practical reason why a whip ban is required. "I'm all in favour of the horses not being hit too regularly, and there should be one blanket rule saying how many times you can hit that horse and not be worried how many times in certain parts of the race," he said. Ron Quinton believes there needs to be a blanket rule for number of hits to the horse "The racing bodies and the jockeys and the trainers have done everything in their power to provide a whip which has no ill effects on the horse. The horses have a thick hide, the whips of years gone by were much more severe and the racing authorities have provided jockeys with a whip now that is not too harsh. "I think that they have done everything in their powers to accommodate the people who have had concerns about it. I think it will be a sad day if a jockey wasn't able to carry a whip in a race." The public perception argument is not something that washes with Quinton, who said it is the opinion of those who work with horses every day which matters most. "The greater percentage of people outside the racing game really don’t understand. They don’t know. Our racehorses are the most pampered and well looked after animals that you've ever seen. The thing is that horses are bred to want to run and generally speaking, most of them do their level best," he said. "A whip is a tool of trade and it does teach the horse manners and it teaches them discipline. I think it’s an important tool." Jockeys must be at heart of discussion While there is a wealth of interested parties, both Quinton and Symons agree that the jockeys must be at the heart of any discussion. "The conversation needs to be had with the jockeys, it's their life," Symons said. "It’s what they do and they are the ones that may have to change to adapt. There's more to a whip than just making a horse find its best, which is important to know. It’s there as a safety tool. "They need to be part of that discussion and they need to make the call on it." Both Quinton and Symons agree that the jockeys must be at the heart of any discussion Quinton, who rode the winners of 46 Group 1 races and won Sydney's jockeys' premiership seven times in a 30-year career in the saddle, said in the eventuality that the whip is no longer available for jockeys to use, there will need to be significant adjustments made in how horses are ridden. "They will have to learn to ride differently. They will have to have a bit more control of the horse's head for guidance. If it eventually happened, they would find a way around it. They would have to," he said. It's a complex debate, something Symons understands well with his acknowledgement that the projected impacts on wagering also need to be considered. Impacts on wagering will also need to be considered But he is also adamant that the complexity or divisive nature of the debate shouldn't prevent it from occurring. "The answer may be to just move on with what we have now and I'm happy to ride within the rules if that is the case. Is it having a detrimental effect? That's the question I want to ask," he said. "Let’s not forget, I didn’t bring it up. It’s a discussion that has been had forever. It's been on the forefront of the industry's mind for the past couple of months. I was just answering a question." The prospects for change Even if there is a common view formed on the desirability of the whip, the next challenge would then be how to implement change. The regulatory framework around racing in Australia is not well designed for industry-wide reform, with individual states having the ability to determine how they police the Australian Rules Of Racing. There have been suggestions of conducting trials of whip-free racing to measure the public response There have also been suggestions of conducting trials of whip-free racing to measure the public response, but the comments of RV CEO Thompson last month provided an interesting insight into how that state may choose to proceed. "We are capable of making bold decisions when we need to, but it will remain a hot topic for quite a while," he said. "It’s something that we are very aware of and alert to at Racing Victoria. We talk about it a lot. At some point, we might have to say, we will make a bold decision about this and go for it."

And yours are much loved.. and I find yours VERY humorous let me tell ya... FFS...I said "we have the tech now"....including chips... Do you ACTUALLY read what I say? Alarmist...pfffft

That's right Sir Pat and Lady Hogan part owned him...and some dude called a Berri Schadenfreude ... who would that be?

No prob Moon...you know I love a banter...along with serious discussion... I thought it was 'serious' anyway...but threads need to have a bit of 'fun' as well or we'll all end up with birds nests in our frowns... ...and who wants Eagle shit on their face?

Of course being a 'horseman' you'd know certain horses have very thin skins... Ive held weanlings while a 'new' vet has pressed the brand on too long with the smell of cooking flesh wafting through the air... Call that "alarmist" if you want but it's now totally NEEDLESS... Imagine a new law being instigated where your pet chew wa wa, Wusstle, had to be branded? Thered be an uproar and you'd be hiding wee Wusstle in your room I'm betting... And let me tell you about Studs and 'their precious brand'...they simply love it being displayed... BTW this has been a big talking point in Australia in the last few weeks... Im kindly getting you updated on a rapidly moving 'animal kindness' 'thang' ok

Let's start again because this is a serious topic... We certainly don't need to 'mark' these weaners anymore...destroying their natural look for the benefit of Breeders advertising... A quick wave of the chip wand, a quick look at discernible markings perhaps...takes no longer than checking every brand as they do now... ...and forget about neck branding...that's probably uglier.... Surely we don't need this eyesore?

I relplied to Moon who chose to ask something non related to the thread... I could have ignored him but that'd be rude...the thread would have gone happily onwards discussing said topic...until you stuck your oar... Aint you got other stuff to do like help Sloiman get re elected rather than troll moi? MANY posters have problems with your site...ask Freda...any number of threads repeat themselves...I can't even enter my name when logging in...only the email entry works... BTW personal attacks by moi are ONLY returned..never started "low life scum" and you thought that was just fine Get a grip

Yes, I think it's called EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE... "HK horses race just fine without LASIX, in fact longer careers than the US" And one would think with HK's confined horse status the problem would be greater than jurisdictions like Australasia... We don't need it and Waller certainly doesn't need to give WINX like horses anymore... I wonder why they're struggling to get her in foal? As for Germany...Everyone knows there's 'degrees' of....but they certainly won't breed from the worst sufferers...EPISTAXIS... ...or breed from Horses having raced with drugs in their system...

Destroy another thread why don't you? I TRIED to get the MB thread back on track....added another pick of PRECEDENCE... Im busting my ass for this site..and all you do is close threads down... Wheres the SOH coming through here...granted I'm not everyone's cuppa... ...but there is ZERO fun... Go on tell us a joke or have some FUN somehow...and not at moi's expense thanks...can't wait

Channeling piece lurve and understanding today mooner... Had a sesh on the black sand beach then a rough up in some rolling thunder surf.. ...caught an A frame...did an aerial...before a backdoor then came across a Barney...who I sent packing... ...so chilled az me brother...you? What about branding...you into that? Im picking you'd have a Tiger inked on your behind...or tucked away somewhere?

So RIU's GOBDER seemed to be relaxing their attitude to protests being allowed when breaking the new Whip rule wrt protesting...a few weeks back...a real difference... MAGNUM got up on the line as well..after Opee broke the 'consequtive' strike rule not once but 3 times... Surely that's unfair on the runner up who was abiding by the new rules?? Its bound to happen in a G 1 this season as well...after all both 1/2 Riders in the Telegraph broke the old rule this year...

Agree koppa...he Hi -Jacks EVERY thread with his nonsense... ...anyway looks like he's gonnnne...rest easy sonny

Let's face it...the Freeze brand is an awful eyesore on our beautiful Thoroughbreds.... So a weanling not only has to go through this painful procedure but then has his dear Mum taken off them... Theres absolutely no need for this anymore...modern tech has ruled this procedure totally out anyway... Of course the Studs love it....free advertising for their 'Brand' and all the glory when winning... ...plus the free photo on right hand tracks... Just get rid of this awful eyesore on our beautiful animals...

This is about ALAALUUNE you loon... ...now bugger off

Oh my...are you STILL here? If REDZEL's trainer says "this horse NEEDS BLINKERS"...he needs Blinkers... Hes the PROFESSIONAL HORSEMAN... You picked up Haysey's Training partners horse poo one day after it unloaded on your foot before floating.... That must have been EMBARRASSING, as indeed your dissertations on ANYTHHING to do with Market %'s and/or HORSEMANSHIP is... In fact your LITANY of LUNACY re Neddy's now stretches into the stratosphere Rocketboy

WTF...you're as CLULESS on this as you are on advising REDZEL's trainer he's WRONG! She COVERED EXTRA GROUND, requiring extra COMPENSATORY TIME CONSIDERATIONS.. Dan O'Sullivan recognises this fact... ...in fact ANYONE that has a f in CLUE does...except YOU....

Great turnaround this...from a constant MEL Cup runner..3 times top 10.... ...Now Champion Show Horse...

Melody Belle back in her paddock tonight with The Shark... ...he doesn't recognise her without the Blinkers obviously

She ran at least 0.35 secs FASTER than her previous Blinkerless head... ....You and your sister clueless curious haven't got the faintest idea about Compensatory Considerations when it comes to FORM ANALYSIS...so GIVE UP even trying.. "prove BO makes them go faster" is already transcribed on your combined love nest tombstone Crypts

Get your fickled finger off the freaken trigger ffs... ...you're here to provide a vehicle for the ENTERTAINMENT and ENJOYMENT of the superior Thoroughbred fraternity... ...not run it as a Frat house for your Knat mates.... ...a humourless dungeon of doom and gloom.... #wakeup

STOP locking threads you LUNATIC....

Cant you read waterBoy?? "I'm betting the left it's WATER" Thats me predicting....."WATER" Imagine if ALL trainers were syringing with "WATER" Its a WORLD WIDE rule....INTEGRITY doesn't do "bullshit" ok?

Hilarious stuff.... So obviously we ALL know she's gone FASTER since they went on.... And again OBVIOUSLY... that's moi's raisin de tear with BLINKERS.... A neddy already proven to have SUPERIOR form wouldnt be inserting BO without Trainer/Jockey thinking even more improvement is forthcoming.... It's PUNTING INTUITION 101 Kindergarten stuff... Keep sucking on the dummy but time to start toilet training 101