the galah

i have to admit i thought they were still paying that prior to reading this topic. i hadn't realised just how well the nz racing industry is treated . i can see why some not involved in racing would ask,why does the racing industry get such special treatment. it does make you wonder,it appears racing couldn't be getting any better treatment than they already are by government legislation,so if things get worse,it seems nz governments have already dealt all the good cards to the nz racing industry,so what would they have left to help.

yes

the point i made was cost cutting can often be related to a company looking to cut costs when profit margins aren't as good as predicted. i get what your saying,cost cutting can occur even when that doesn't apply. but i also gave the example in my previous post of the tab racing club. You appear to say"why wouldn't they cut that cost". Well,when you've heavily publicised something and got 18,000 customers involved,then one day,just as the promotion is taking off,you pull the rug out from under them and say to those 18000 customers,nah,we've changed our minds. Well thats very poor if they did it for the reasons you give. Hey,maybe your right,maybe that is how entain behave,very poor if it is.I had thought entain may have done it because of the reduced profit in australasia due to the$100m they have had to set aside for the austrac fine.

So i get what your saying about income tax,that it doesn' work the same here as it does in other countries i think thats the point your making. but i assume you don't dispute the nz tab is still paying gst and betting levies taxes? i think thats what you mean although maybe your suggesting they have been phased out as well. It was reported the tab paid 11.1m in taxes in 2024.

thats the thing isn't it brodie,i don't see how racing industry leaders could really know exactly how the geo blocking and increase in nz turnovers was going to impact them. They are just guessing and once the guaranted minimums from entain come off,well all will be revealed as to the quality of management of the industries in recent years. You would have thought caution as relates to spending would have been the wise policy in recent years, but like you,i fear the harness industry has not managed its finances at all well.. The clocks ticking as to when it will be revealed either way.

i suppose you mean a bit like what they did in the uk last year.The racing industry in the uk had been worried about the tax rates paid by betting providers on horse racing being increased,but after much lobbying the tax rate stayed the same for racing,but was increased on sports betting and especially on on line casino betting.

what,are you suggesting the nz government recieve no tax money from the nz tab/entain?

it depends what we are discussing. i was thinking along the lines of what we saw when entain reduced expenditure on certain things last year. like any business,if profits aren't as high as they want globally or say in australasia,they look at ways of cutting costs. That played out last year in nz with some job losses in areas that service the industry for entain and for example, the tab racing club which was a promotional tool for entain,was stopped and that 2.5m annual spend on the industry disappeared. thats the type of thing i'm thinking of.

so many factors are at play when it comes to how much the nz racing industry can benefit from sports betting increases. like for every $ spent on sports betting,what % of profit actually will end up going to racing. Entain must have a good idea by now,but no one seems to be saying what it is. its the same with horse racing,just because turnover goes up ,doesn't mean profits are going up.If we only had tote betting yes it would be simple,but because so much turnover relates to fixed odds betting,we need to know what % profit that aspect is returning the industry. For example,if sports betting goes up 50%,then entain take their cut,the sports organisations take their cut,tax rates,yield rates,etc are at play. in other words a 50% increase in sports turnover probably only returns the racing industry a single digit increase on previouis years amounts,in profit to be distributed to horse racing.I don't know for sure,no one is saying,but i do know for sure people should not get too excited and think a 50% sports turnover increase means a really big windfall for the industry,because we don't have enough information to say that.Its got to be a positive thing,but just how big it really is,who knows. And if say the harness racing code,is spending beyond their means,well they most likely are going to struggle even with a bit of help from sports betting returns.I mean,the racing codes have been spending based on what?How could they possibly know for sure how much they are likely to get.They had to have been guessing until a year of the geo blocking has played out.. then with sports betting you have the variable that played out in the usa a couple of years ago relating to the nfl. The betting agencies all took big hits to their profits because the nfl had a run of favorites win. I mean ,the oppposite could happen of course,but again looking at something and saying 53 increase,its too vague to get too excited. I was reading yesterday how entain shares have fallen 25% this year and that was down close to half on itspeak price in the last year.i think they are publishing their yearly results soon,but they have revised their profits down for this year and for next year.Apparently the prediction markets are taking off in some countries which is effecting betting on the likes of sports. E.g.in the USA you can bet on the likes of whether zelensky will wear a suit to the white house. Because that type of betting is more profitable % for the betting agencies who focus on it,they are able to offer better odds than you may get on the likes of sports betting. Of course what they can bet on in the usa is different from here or the uk. But does entains global profit have any effect on nz racing.Probably not,but then again it may do down the track,who really knows.

i would label you a very,very poor form analyst billy. the horse had won 8 races at 1200,but never beyond.So when you say it needed further,your just showing your ignorance.. Also had you bothered to look at its recent videos you would have seen runs beyond 1200, where the jockeys have taken off miles too early,only to come to the end of its run because it excels at 1200,not any further. .Always ridden poor. as to having its chance today. Did you even watch the video.did you even see the head on. Again,you seem to have no idea if you did. anyway,i won't engage in debating with you after this post as i know i am just going to get a silly reply like the last time i did and like the one you posted on this topic.. its tragic for the horse and the horses connections that the horse has lost its life.

you have to feel fot the connections of henry hubber and the horse . i've been following this horse for a bit now. always paying big dividend.Today the same, 45/1. It has to have been the unluckiest horse i've seen for donkeys years. race after race its either taken off miles too early or it simply never gets a run and finishes full of running. it should have win its last 6 starts easy really. today,same again,Jumps out ,never got a run the whole race and ran 5th without ever getting a run. At least it didn't hit the rail several times like the start before i suppose. But the very sad thing was the horse looked like it had a very bad injury when pulling up,possibly career ending.Amazing given the way it ran. imagine having that horse.

i had to smile when i read that forbs. It was a heavy lift,but good to see hes won you over for now.

personally i think you hit the nail on the head. the current system,if applied properly could work much better than it currently does. I've always thought the handicappers for many years simply haven't done a good job. theres always been groups prioritised over others and theres also been inconsistencies in how they treat everyone over the years. Not just recently,but it goes back for quite some time. Why don't they run more races where not only ratings,but money won in the last 6 starts,or money won in the last 12 months,or a combination of that and the number of wins,etc. if HRNZ were to do that they would spread the money won and races won out over a greater % of horses and their connections and that incentivises people to keep going. . Currenly the big winners are the horses who in the past would have been in about the 4 win grade. They simply win,get driven quietly for 3 runs,drop back to about r 39,put a claiming junior on,win,then 3 or 4 more quiet runs,then they are back in the same r39 grade they had won in, so they quickly win again and the whole cycle just carries on. and of course the 2 and 3 year old winners have always been advantaged. HRNZ's focus on the juniors is another example of prioritsing one group over another.. its hrnz doing what they always do,looking at a problem,saying well we don't have enough of this group or that group. Just as they do with the 2 year old racing,their solution is to introduce systems that prioritise one group over another. and thats what they have done with the juniors. They give them free gear ,free this and that ,licence fees,concession wins,more penalty free wins ,blah ,blah blah,chnage the criteria for being a junior to include people much older than there used to be,blah,blah,blah. the people cross subsidising the juniors include the small time licence holders who train and race their own horses who are battling to keep going already.Like duh.. When people think they are being undervalued and the system is stacked against them,they recognise that and it contributes to how they see the industry and whether they have better things they should be spending their time and money on.Its not rocket science to recognise that although currently those in charge seem even less aware of that factor than in the past.

i agree with you about the need to showcase the sport. No argument there. You need your high end races . its just how you do it and whether you get the balance right as far as promoting and looking after all sectors. i belive HRNZ and the mainsteam harness media's fail on both fronts because they over focus,almost to the point of obsession sometimes ,on the high end races like slot races,the age group races,the highend trainers and they also focus too much on junior drivers, prioritising them over the hard working grass roots participants.. so your talking about showcasing,well all within nz hraness racing are deserving of show casing,not just 10%. Harness racing is also losing the good will they have with so many who have supported them in the past. People may not realise it,but i believe thats been happening,Its being driven by poor decision making. And the average joe bloggs will be observing the silence of the people who are deemed the special ones and who are riding the gravy train. Rugby is nz's main sport. Nz rugby's 2025 vision:reimagining rugby. "we're future focussed, while respecting where we have come from.Lessons from throughout rugby's strong history,as well as more recent events,have formed our direction in a way that will look after the entire game from grass roots level to the international performances.We intend to grow rugby at the heart of our communities as we know that the strength of grass roots flows throughout the game." Thats a message your always seeing the successful unions stating.Thats not what you get in nz harness racing. Anyway gamma,enjoy the showcasing of the likes of the slot aces. nothing wrong with that if your into them. personally my interest in those type of races continues to decline ,mostly because i view the money hrnz have thrown at those sectors will negatively impact the sport in the future. Why would i bother showing interest in all the pre race media hype about something which is a reminder of how hrnz prioritse the high end.

sounds like the right pitch to give you the inside running in any job interview you may have with cambridge,auckland or HRNZ. But seriously,what you suggest is the same type of thinking that exists at hrnz and the nz media and the high end trainers. If hrnz see participation levels low in certain areas,e.g. 2 year old racing, They throw more and more money at them in the form of higher stakes,bonuses,next gen promotions,etc ,etc,etc. As to the trotiting slot race. Seriously,the media and HRNZ hype is all a joke from my perspective.Only hrnz,the media , the high end trtainers and gamma gives those races a second thought. Nobody else cares in the real world no matter how much they hype them up.. Actually thats not quite true,what most do give some thought is wondering why the media and hrnz are obsessed with those type of races,when no one else is.