the galah

i quoted their exact wording earlier,which implies more than what you say. but i agree with you they lack transparency. If things were as good as they make out,then all they would have to do is release the fugures and show that and that would silence the naysayers.

tomnights tote betting pools are rather pitiful . The last 3 races at auckland haven't even made over $3000 in the win pool. Most of the others under $4000. hrnz spokes people keep saying the turnovers are good,well it can't be betting on the tote. Addington had a couple of races ok ,which obviously got a couple of minutes more coverage around tea time in australia,but the rest of the pools very small.Manawatu type tote turnovers some of the racesit seems some drivers simply aren't trying very hard. or just waiting for next week.The last 2 races, $1.90 favorite ameretto franco simply never given a chance to win by sitting last on a sprint home even though the trainer indicated before ,in a pre race interview,he thought it would be drivin positively, then one of the 2 win movers at auckland in a 6 horse race,bettor raction at $4,definetly driven to just follow them around. oh well.

i gave them the benefit of the doubt on the basis that as a handicapping,rating and programming committee ,they had commented on turnovers, when it was not their area they were tasked with,thus they may not have had all the data. my main point was they had commented on turnovers to create a positive spin ,but they deliberately used language that could be taken 2 ways to cover their arses from future criticism should information become public which showed they were wrong in how they spun it. to be honest,i'm a bit confused as to what your saying in your post as i think it could be taken 2 ways. 1) that you believe what they are saying, as you are saying they have access to all the data to back that up so wouldn't say it unless they knew it was true.. or 2)you don't believe what they say,because of the vagueness of the language they use in their report.

huh.i explained why .No point picking out bits Again,that ain't neccassarily so,even probably so. i explained why if you read my whole post. but for you again. if you run x amount of races and those amount of races are not generating enough income from wagering to cover the stakes paid.And then you increase the amount of races from x to y,and you generate the same turnover per race on the y races as you had on the x races,then what you have done is maintained turnover but increased the deficit between turnover and stakes paid,because you have run more of them. you just miss the points i made,i can't help that.

on the hrnz website theres a story that refers to a sub committee of a ratings ,handicapping and programming commttee. This group comprised of rob lawson,mike johnson and brett gray. in section 6 of their report thay noted "turnovers appear very strong.Note tis hard to compare year on year as the number of race meetings and number of races has increased and we have also had cambridge changed from tuesday to thursday.The good news overwhelmingly is that turnovers certainly have NOT(their use of caps) dropped" very generalised , vague,in many ways,but trying to be upbeat. they say Its hard to compare year on year figures because of the major changes,but they did anyway because they believe the turnovers haven't dropped. no mention of how geoblocking has effected nz wagering,how it has impacted income from overseas bookmakers who take betting on the nz harness product,the lower starter numbers,really no mention of lots of relevant stuff,because,lets face it,they probably don't have the data or were tasked with giving an in depth analysis of turnover and its impacts. but they want to put out there the message of don't panic,everythings going fine, as far the income harness racing will receive from wagering. Anyway,the lack of context that i refer to can be drilled down to the most obvious important thing. is the income from wagering going to generate enough income to maintain stake levels. i mean,whats the point in saying,wagering has certainly NOT dropped,when if the wagering level of the previous year they were comparing it with was not generating enough incme to maintain stake levels. In other words,its entirely possible,even probable,that if wagering has actuallly gone up in the last year,it still won't be generating enoough income to maintain the level of stakes. so really this committee of 3 comments about wagering,really don't mean much at all. they're simply trying to give a positive impression. Theres a lot of that in almost every press release on the hrnz website these days. never an admission of any worrying data,never an admission of anything negative really. It was like the press release from m peden about the bonus scheme.Like you could read that and think,if they aren't going to ever admit that some things are trending negatively or that some highly promioted scheme was a failure,then why should anyone believe they ever will tell it as it is.

at least aaron whites consistent. the first race tonight he labelled as his whisper of the night the serial galloper levi. its broken its last 6 starts, so whats he say,this thing wins if it trots all the way. so it galloped for 1900m of the 2200 after looking very nervous pre start. now even the out the gate fellas are having a chuckle about that,but they did follow his advice and backed it.

i always thought there was an irony in how the out the gate crews betting evolved.. The show was on a thursday,a traditional nz harness night. and we recognise,the out the gate crew was trying encourage greater interest from the casual observer of harness racing,those who may not have normally watched,with the intent of showing them they didn't need to spend much to have a bit of fun and entertainment and to spark some future interest in harness racing.. atl east that was what i think they have been trying to do. I think have been reasonably successful in achieving that as relates to the greyhounds. But ,through no fault of theirs,the out the gater crew had to deal with a cambridge harness product that even the avid harness fans,realised was the worst example of a nz harness betting product in nz then you add to that they used aaron whites selections. Now,as i said earlier,a white can tip ok at auckland,but at cambridge he kept tipping serial gallopers and horses driven that gave the impression either they werennt trying or that they just went back and followed them around like they would wait for a 6 horse field the following week where they may get a better draw. so,as i have pointed out in an earlier post,the out the gate team,soon realised this harness product is not what they should be betting on,as after all,it may not have been their money,but they wanted to make money for the people who had invested in their pools ,so they realised they needed to focus on the dogs and the dogs you could tell were trying each time and their selector,a mccook,seems to be a knowledgable tipster. so the irony was,the out the gate team tried to support the harness racing product more,i'm sure wanted to,but the cambridge harness product simply is not a great product to promote harness racing wagering and the out the gate team exposed that,which was not their fault.

the latest bit in the news segment on the hrnz has a story headlined "2 year old bonus (the $12,000 ones)delivered on increasing opportunities" you've have to give m peden credit for that headline. yes the bonuses failed to get breeders to breed more horsesor or get any more horses starting,continually had small field sizes,but hey...guess what...they did deliver on increasing opportunities for people to race their 2 year olds for a bonus. i'm not sure i would want to buy a used car off him,but points for finding a positive to spin that anyway. then it says,having achieved its objectives(lets not let the truth get in the way with that bit),the scheme is coming to a close this year. what does that mean. does it mean the 2 years the bonuses that existed to encourage people to breed their mares,will never reward anyone who bred on the understanding they would have an opportunity to race for the $12,000 bonus. In other words it rewarded those who had bred before the bonuses were introduced, who would not have been aware of the bonus when they bred,but didn't reward those who bred thinking they may get one. It sounds a bit like all those rather naive breeders who bred to a nz based sire, thinking they would get to race for bonuses,only to see them cancelled before they had a chance as well. oh well,at least todays story indicates hrnz have made a decision that made sense,even if they took a long time to work it out .

the low grade average country sunday harness meetings up until 12-18 months ago, used to normally have higher tote pools than the average friday night races at addington and way more than an auckland friday meeting.It had been like that for many years. but,looking at the tote pools recently,sunday turnovers have dropped and seem to have been significantly impacted by the decision to run nz galloping meetings on sundays.Now sunday turnover seem to be about the same as an addington friday night meeting and the early sunday races have poor turnovers. In november 2023 there was only 2 sunday galloping meetings in nz,this year there was 8. i don't know whether HRNZ had any imput in that decision making,but from a harness perspective,that seems to have been a real negative.I assume the same applies to the ff. so really,even the sundays,which still seem to be the profit making meetings,aren't going as good as they used to. the sunday turnovers always used to prove what most of us had always said,the average punters don't bet on the quality of the horses,they bet on the quality of the betting product. And sundays had and actually still do provide a superior betting product. of course,friday nights have no nz gallops meetings to compete against.

what a silly reply. Misinformation.Having an opinion is misinformation to you and enough for you to say i'm anti greyhound racing.Just a silly reply. You clearly haven't bothered to read what former chief vet for grnsw,alex brittan,said about the greyhound industry during his time in their employment. he alledged many things,including greyhound nsw welfare and integrity commission(gwic) was deliberately obfuscating and under reporting the facts. Have you even read the very detailed 54 page submisiion he made to the the drake commion hearing,a hearing which in effect was investigating itself.I have. you gave figures in an earlier post. brittan explained many things,including how figures were being manipulated. i suggest you go read his 54 page letter or have a read of the evidence related to that from the months long public hearing. You may have no interest in how the commisioners report addresses his concerns,but those who aren't blinkered,would like to know whats in that report. your blinkered approach has contributed to the demise of your industry. And still you practice it and you wonder why your being shut down.It needn't have been that way,but in your mind you can blame the anti greyhound racing people or winston peters. It wasn't them that gave them the ammunition to fire. Also you must be aware some of the issues which he says are major contibutors to greyhound injuries are still applicable in nz greyhound racing.

ive never bagged manawatu myself.Their stake level seem about right. from those comments you don't seem aware that the grass racks are the races that get the high turnovers in nz and are the meetings that run at a profit. its the income from the grass track meeetings that hrnz will need to continue, to cross subsidise the loss making clubs.

but if you look at the hrnz board and the ceo,they all have well credentialed backgrounds. so,.business success or not,does it make any difference. isn't the most important thing ,we need people who understand what drives the harness product, how to maintain and maximise the profit making parts of the industry.,while mitigating the level of any loss making parts of the industry. in other words ,just common sense is needed. its clear who the industry leaders surround themselves with and who has their ear. then you have the likes of the fella peden. Its like he gets the word from mr steele,who says something like,"matt can you come up with another hair brained spending binge,but this time for the people in the cheap seats,to keep them quiet'. Then peden comes up with some scheme ,so in effect they are not just overspending on the lords,but on the peasants as well. and to be fair to them,it works.It placates the peasants. They too think of how they pay the bills due today and not 3 years time. oh well,i had better get my focus back on the gallops at cromwell today. Money to be made on south island gallops as i have said before,they always have good betting races. Just as good as the grass track harness meetings.

yes,i agree with that. but you haven't commented on what i said about the strength of harness racing, used to be the level of grass root particpation.(its not now) I'm not sure whether you've ignored that because it can't be argued with. but its obvious you simply believe prioritsing the elite over the grass root people is good policy. And everyone agrees the sport is in serious decline. so its simple,the current policies have contributed to the sports decline. Simple as that. and just as simple,is the point i keep making to you,which you have no answer to. that is,when hrnz have spent all the entain cash and forbury money and cash reserves,which they currently are doing,well what happens then . Because your argument is always the rich and the elite need to be financially rewarded and prioritised. so if we extrapolate out your argument,for me,the logical conclusion is you must believe, the rich leave the sport when the money runs out. your the one saying without all the big stakes and bonuses,the sport will lose them.I'm the one saying that won't happen,your the one saying it will. so where is the sport going to be in 10 years time,as hrnz will have spent that money well before then. Maybe what will happen in 10 years is hrnz can sell up auckland,sieze their assets,promise to keep the monet in the north then cunningly work around that to support the south island as that will be the only place which can generate a profirt to keep the sport going.Just saying,in 10 years time,i bet my botto9m $,that is what some peopkle will be pushing and the reason why the industry eneded up considering that will have been because of poor fiscal responsibilty in the now.

I will explain ,in a different way,why i think your thinking is flawed and why those in charge of HRNZ have lost perspective of reality. i actually believe poor decsiion making has already undermined the sport,beyond repair, the poor policies going back many years. The strehgth of harness racing in nz had always been the level of grass root participation far outweighs the level of participation of the big players. in other words,the numbers that the grass roots people contributed to the sport,whether it be as owners,punters,sponsors,breeders,licence holders,everything used to by far far greater than the overall contribution of the high end players. all of those grass root people had many friends ,relatives etc who followed their prograss. But that level of participation has been undermined by many things. things happening outside the industries control have significantly impacted the grass root level numbers,but the problem is ,the decision makers could often have mitigated the damage through better policies,but they haven't. And now we have decision makers prioritising on steroids,the people you say deserve more support than the ever diminshing grass roots level people. where the grass roots level have also failed themselves,is they have been unable to psuh their cause as a collective and therefore the big players voices are the ones always being heard.But hrnz should have recognised that if they were indeed leaders,instead of pandering to the rich and the elite. Thats whats played out. its reality. it hasn't been the wealthy or the millionaires who are leaving the sport has it. you can keep saying they will lose those blokes from the sport if they don't throw more millions there way,i don't believe you. What will lose those millionaires participation is when they see they are in a sport which has lost the public and the grass root number of particpants that he sport once had. if you were a multi millionaire,would you rather win a big race for a lower stake,but with a big public following or would you rather win a big race with a big stake and very few watching or seeing you r achievement. you say its the latter,i say its the former.

saying theres always a way,ignores reality to whats actually is happening. what i have read,from people like myself,was a criticism of entain pushing hrnz into focusing on the 2 year bonuses, which very obviously benefitted small high profile interest groups ,with the biggest beneficiary being the man in charge of entain at the time.Thats just a fact. Also we were told by hrnz the 2 year old bonuses would lead to increased numbers being bred, but the first year proved that was a miserable failure. But as to entain money that went with the government deal,no one has criticised that. its how that money is being used by hrnz that is the subject of the criticism. i don't know where you get this idea that stud farms and millionaires are going to put more money into sponsorship. that seems unrealistic thinking. have you not noticed that sponsorship seems to be declining in the sport. Look at the races names and its obvious. Also,its also so obvious,that if you run more and more races ,then less and less races will have sponsors.Thats just a fact as well. and these stud farms and millionaires that you refer to,again,have a look at where the money from bonuses and high end stakes are going.They may well spend a lot of money on their horses,but hrnz gives them preferential treatment and they are the ones getting the money that hrnz throws around. you would know the people who own the horses that come to nz and take away all the stakemoney are owned by the rich.Whether it be bonuses or the high end races,the rich benefit and the average person doesn't. Thats in a nutshell is why the indutsry has lost all the small timers who collectively formed the strong base that used to exist within the industry.They're gone,as have their mares. Again just reality. as to slot races. You would know hrnz is propping them uip with stakemoney that would be better kept for when hrnz run short on money. Cambridge is in a financial hole that hrnz seem intent on bailing them out of,and part of the reason for that hole is the slot races. So you can advocate away as much as you like about slot races,but thats advocating for more bail out money to go to whoever runs them. you always try to be positive,but wishing doesn't change reality.