the galah

i had to smile when i read that forbs. It was a heavy lift,but good to see hes won you over for now.

personally i think you hit the nail on the head. the current system,if applied properly could work much better than it currently does. I've always thought the handicappers for many years simply haven't done a good job. theres always been groups prioritised over others and theres also been inconsistencies in how they treat everyone over the years. Not just recently,but it goes back for quite some time. Why don't they run more races where not only ratings,but money won in the last 6 starts,or money won in the last 12 months,or a combination of that and the number of wins,etc. if HRNZ were to do that they would spread the money won and races won out over a greater % of horses and their connections and that incentivises people to keep going. . Currenly the big winners are the horses who in the past would have been in about the 4 win grade. They simply win,get driven quietly for 3 runs,drop back to about r 39,put a claiming junior on,win,then 3 or 4 more quiet runs,then they are back in the same r39 grade they had won in, so they quickly win again and the whole cycle just carries on. and of course the 2 and 3 year old winners have always been advantaged. HRNZ's focus on the juniors is another example of prioritsing one group over another.. its hrnz doing what they always do,looking at a problem,saying well we don't have enough of this group or that group. Just as they do with the 2 year old racing,their solution is to introduce systems that prioritise one group over another. and thats what they have done with the juniors. They give them free gear ,free this and that ,licence fees,concession wins,more penalty free wins ,blah ,blah blah,chnage the criteria for being a junior to include people much older than there used to be,blah,blah,blah. the people cross subsidising the juniors include the small time licence holders who train and race their own horses who are battling to keep going already.Like duh.. When people think they are being undervalued and the system is stacked against them,they recognise that and it contributes to how they see the industry and whether they have better things they should be spending their time and money on.Its not rocket science to recognise that although currently those in charge seem even less aware of that factor than in the past.

i agree with you about the need to showcase the sport. No argument there. You need your high end races . its just how you do it and whether you get the balance right as far as promoting and looking after all sectors. i belive HRNZ and the mainsteam harness media's fail on both fronts because they over focus,almost to the point of obsession sometimes ,on the high end races like slot races,the age group races,the highend trainers and they also focus too much on junior drivers, prioritising them over the hard working grass roots participants.. so your talking about showcasing,well all within nz hraness racing are deserving of show casing,not just 10%. Harness racing is also losing the good will they have with so many who have supported them in the past. People may not realise it,but i believe thats been happening,Its being driven by poor decision making. And the average joe bloggs will be observing the silence of the people who are deemed the special ones and who are riding the gravy train. Rugby is nz's main sport. Nz rugby's 2025 vision:reimagining rugby. "we're future focussed, while respecting where we have come from.Lessons from throughout rugby's strong history,as well as more recent events,have formed our direction in a way that will look after the entire game from grass roots level to the international performances.We intend to grow rugby at the heart of our communities as we know that the strength of grass roots flows throughout the game." Thats a message your always seeing the successful unions stating.Thats not what you get in nz harness racing. Anyway gamma,enjoy the showcasing of the likes of the slot aces. nothing wrong with that if your into them. personally my interest in those type of races continues to decline ,mostly because i view the money hrnz have thrown at those sectors will negatively impact the sport in the future. Why would i bother showing interest in all the pre race media hype about something which is a reminder of how hrnz prioritse the high end.

sounds like the right pitch to give you the inside running in any job interview you may have with cambridge,auckland or HRNZ. But seriously,what you suggest is the same type of thinking that exists at hrnz and the nz media and the high end trainers. If hrnz see participation levels low in certain areas,e.g. 2 year old racing, They throw more and more money at them in the form of higher stakes,bonuses,next gen promotions,etc ,etc,etc. As to the trotiting slot race. Seriously,the media and HRNZ hype is all a joke from my perspective.Only hrnz,the media , the high end trtainers and gamma gives those races a second thought. Nobody else cares in the real world no matter how much they hype them up.. Actually thats not quite true,what most do give some thought is wondering why the media and hrnz are obsessed with those type of races,when no one else is.

that question implies you think that is relevant in a certain way. well,yes i believe its relevant,but not in the way you imply. ask yourself this who's opinion should one listen to and value.. A)someone who understands how the industry works and is run ,who has no self interest at stake and who promotes what they belive is best for the overall industries health. or B)someone who understands how the industry works and is run,but who promotes policies that benefit their own self interests or prioritises the interests of certain groups within the industry . clealy the answer is a no brainer. Its A. so the point is,the having skin in the game argument is just a deflection.

brodie,as far as trainers saying how well things are going. Its people preferring to live in the present and judging things on how they,themselves are currently being impacted by how hrnz is currently running things. For example,if they are trying to get owners interested in yearlings they may have recently purchased at the sales,being a good saleman and highlighting the positive aspects of what your selling,is necessary,so they focus on the current high stakes a a positive and chose to ignore all the other indicators of the industries health. Another factor is these high end,high profile trainers are dealing each day with a lot of stresses and worries that come with running bigger stables. So theres a degree of,i've got enough stresses running my stable as it is,i don't need to overcomplicate things further by taking on board the stresses of having to think about things outside their wheelhouse. and even if they did take a look around them and conclude current hrnz leadership is squandering a once in a lifetime chance to ensure the future of the sport,well if they were to express those views publically, that would get them offside with the prople running the industry,the very same people who are currently prioritsing the self interests of the high end people,of which they are one. So in effect,these high end trainers are never going to advaocate for policies that will impact them and their client base. Its just the way human nature works. After all,its a cut throat world and people have to fight for whats best for themselves,so thats also part of why the high end trainers and owners are happy to take a head in the sand approach. so really its just self interest driving how some people who appear to ignoring reality.Its people with a stake in the game playing their cards to their own benefit.Its just the way the world and people work.Its understandable,its not because they aren't smart,but at the end these people who are supposed to be smart a playing a game that may see them negatively impacted most long term.And thats not that smart. But life really is never black and white,its always shades of grey and the nz harness industry is no different.

Well i read it before i posted it. It was definitly there a couple of days ago.The article was written after roger that had won a couple of weeks ago.

it says exceptional circumstances. if it was a vet certificate supplied it would have said.(don't give them ideas gammalite as they may get one to cover their arse after the fact).LOL. my guess is dalgety has been told by hrnz to put his horse in,even though hrnz would be aware he had no intention to start. in other words,hrnz and dalgety were all part of a plan to ensure the race was run and they would get paid the higher stake. Thats my guess. Thats the way it works if you observe closely enough. And the stipes have green lighted such behavior. Its actually quite serious .But no one will care because of who it involves.

I've been thinking. whats the point of scratching penalties. Its the most inconsistently applied rule in nz harness racing.I've posted about it many times listing endless examples. Hopefully someone looks into why the stipes gave roger that no stand down. On the face of it,it appears that preferential treatment has been given,simply because the trainer is a big name and possibly Hrnz were complicit in the deception. thats what it appears anyway. Its a very,very poor look. If not,simply state why.

i think the thing that frustrates the punters about tu tangata,is they don't know whether nairn is trying and just isn't much of a driver,or whether hes not trying and is trying to drop in the grades.My guess would be the later,although who can be really sure either way. Either way there is a down side to how that horse often gets driven which would frustrate anyone that bets on it. I always think he should put one of those claiming drivers on and just take the half penalties every time it wins and try everytime. the handicapping system is so biased in the favour of junior drivers over the likes of drivers like nairn. But at the end of the day,its his horse.

yes,thats all true But they have fun doing it. i think thats the appeal to those that particpate in their betting pools. they are trying to entertain as well as punting.The personalities are the key. They have a good mix. And they have a lot of well known sporting guests on,that are entertaining. i enjoy the banter the out the gate people have with their guests.they even had hamish carter as a guest last night.Seeing those guests and showing said guests can enjoy things related to the racing industry,is sort of refreshing and i think thats part of why it works for me. A one off show once a week is just the right amount of out the gate type format.i wouldn't want any more of it myself,but i like it the way it is.

So,in the last fortnight hrnz have programmed and run 2 2year old races at addington. So they cut the stake of the race 2 weeks ago due to such a small field. . well,tonights race,had even less,only 3 starters and they left the stake the same.. essentially,the winner of the 3 horse race earned $2750 more than the winner of the 4 horse race. why,because thats the way hrnz progrmmed it to be.they said the stake is based on the number of acceptors,not the number of starters. and you see,that of course means any trainer could essentially accept with a horse that they have no intention of starting, to make sure HRNZ pay out the higher stake.you can't blame any trainer for simply being too clever for hrnz.Mind you that doesn't seem too hard the way they programmed it. So what was going on with the stipes not giving the dalgety trained Roger That any stand down. surely,for the sake of tranparency the stipes should have told people what the exceptional circumstances were which meant he got off with no penalty . Don't they know that Dalgety,after roger that won 2 weeks ago,had reported on his website that roger that was not going to run tonight and was going out for a short break. So whats going on there.Can't the stipes work out that people may ask questions why they decided roger that wasn't to get a scratching penalty?We can giess why,but maybe thats why they are saying. Hrnz really don't seem too clever sometimes.

the point we often make gamma is HRNZ should have come up with a workable,financialy sustainable vision for the future of north island and auckland harness racing.They have had years to do it now. people don't believe they have. yes hrnz are trying. The atc club were trying when they did the apartment complexs. in the end what people care about is whether policy and decision making is good,bad or indifferent.Its the poor policy and decision making which is the reason for any criticism. no one understands why a business wouldn't want to restructure in a way that ensures their future.Thats what i think people struggle most with when it comes to hrnz policy towards the atc.

my take is,no one in power at the atc or hrnz or the media want to talk about the atc anymore.They would rather ignore it. Everyone knows its a joke. everyone knows hrnz policy towards the atc will hurt nz harness racing everywhwere in years to come,especially auckland. I think mr steele,when last asked about the atc,put his fingers in his ears and starting cheerfully singing.

brodie,nowornever,gamma,you all make very good points that i i wouldn't argue against. i believe the questioning that gets mentioned in canterbury stipes reports,even if it is after the fact and often involves what some think may be obvious answers ,is still very important as the sport needs ot be giving that perception of oversight,for the publics perspective that everything is above board. you also see canterbury stipes question drivers tactics,especially when it comes to a lack of vigour in a finish or not making obvious moves.Now i note that never gets criticised on this forum and i think that is because everyone likes to see that type of oversight. if we go back to that old minefield,operation inca,i always argued and even highlighted some of the races involved before operation inca ever became public knowledge,,and that the stipes oversight was lacking.Some of the people involved appeared to have formed the opinion that they could take advantage of that lack of oversight.Now,i don't mean my favorite driver,b orange,i never saw him do anything wrong,but some of those others should have been getting asked qustions on driving tactics and horse performances.Had that been happening properly,no operation inca. so what i'm saying is,the perception as far as integrity is very,very important and the form turnaround questioning is just part of how that perception is put out there to the public and to trainers and drivers. The north isalnd stipes will never get any criticism for asking possible form turnarounds because they never ask the question and on the rare occassions you see something obviously dodgy up there,and it does happen,they just put the caps back on the binoculars and continue watching the races that way.