Reefton

Have a look at the head coaching record of the head coach. I do not, for all that, want to get on the bandwagon to tear the man down(he is doing a fine job of that himself from where I am sitting). This thread was started to compare the admin and modus operandi of the two organisations not try to destroy one bloke who is having a bad time. His only opposition at the time of appointment had won how many Super titles from how many attempts? Can you tell me how many the successful candidate had won from how many attempts?(clue: the former's form line resembles that of Winx) Or for that matter what the success rate of the current guy's assistants is(Plumtree has won one hasn't he?) Not sure if any of the others have even coached a Super Rugby side let alone a title winning one.. I am even less of an expert on rugby than I am on racing so this is only opinion but in my view there are a multitude of top quality coaches in NZ and accordingly they should be on four year rotations to tie into the World Cup cycle. Henry then his apprentice Hansen then his apprentice Foster gives coming up 18 years of a similar philosophy and in simple terms the world has caught up with and clearly gone past NZ in some cases. In the meantime there has been a bit of a succession of talent flying away frustrated at an inability to get a look in for the top job. You can tell by the guarded comments of the players(Savea would hardly look at the camera) and the Union itself that there are issues there. And the comparison to NZ Racing? Well after about ten foreigners filling the CEO's job(the question being 'Given the state of NZ racing why the hell would anyone want to come here to try to rescue it? Unless they aren't up to the mark elsewhere that is.') they have finally appointed, without a selection process, a Kiwi. The lucky bloke has so far impressed us with his name dropping ability but not a lot else. And that telling us all about all the rich and famous he has worked with in the past leads once more to the question 'What the f*#k would you want with the NZTR job if you are that well connected?'

Yes and in a case like yours Pam how many of the high flyers of the NZTR or TAB boards would have thought of what you would do as second nature. Jump out of bed at four on a freezing winters morning, sort the rest of the team out then get in a float with a hopeful to run in knee deep mud on an industry midweek day. 150 people in attendance. Get home long after dark then attend to the rest of the team again, stagger home and slump into bed disappointed (again!). Wake up next morning and go again. The sort of thing that makes this game of ours and is totally forgotten about when the fat cats sit down at an NZTR Board Meeting. Of in a rugby scenario how many think of the women who spent years making food for the after match or who spend hours scrubbing filthy grass and mud stained jerseys so the team looks sharp as next Saturday. The forget where the hard work is really done

A I just hear that NZ rugby allowed the AB's to not turn up to an arranged and standard after test press conference this morning. How arrogant is that but how similar to the attitude of those running NZ racing? Make a fool of the game then refuse to answer questions and explain yourself

Well my irish mates would like it recorded they had a great night!

An example of exactly the point I am making. And then these appointees make selections of unproven personnel then commit the organisation to long term contracts or pathways to destruction. NZRU will see the writing on the wall and are no doubt going to have to sack someone and pay out a huge contract - NZTR would just grin and bear it. And the tragedy is in each case there are some super talented super enthusiastic and super concerned people who's views and initiative are totally ignored or belittled. Tragic

Anyone else seeing a comparison here? Embrace a corporate culture and take away control from the grass roots. Followed by massive disillusionment among the aforementioned grass roots Look after the elite to an embarassing extent (I know you have to pay the AB's well) Dwindling domestic attendance even though (in Rugby's case) the product is world class. Stagnation or retreat at intenational level And a lack of imagination to right the wrongs. And blokes just looking to embellish their CV's by being on 'The Board' If they win this it will be more by good luck than good management

If you were them why would you come on a place like this? Realistically all that is going to happen is a good solid bollocking if they showed their face and tried to justify themselves. No better to communicate with their puppet masters and eff the proles!

Because at this time of year they are almost certainly losing money on meetings so why would they want replacements? No shit no keep the money in the bank for more pies. They don't care how many meetings get abandoned especially when they are the country venues. If they can destroy the meagre remaining enthusiasm in the likes of the Hawera and Woodville committees they will be able to seize their assets all the sooner and be able to hand them over to Race and its ilk to piss up against the wall. And as for the owners/trainers/connections waiting for opportunities - well they have been given shiite treatment for the last twenty plus years so why consider them? To be fair though what are the options for replacement fixtures with the standard of weather we have been having in this country in the last few weeks? Pretty tough to find a reasonably dry venue in the lower NI I would have thought? The days of ploughing through knee deep mud, piss poor jockey visibility and/or copping surface water in Jockey's faces are long gone and I wouldn't be holding my breath for Trentham to run if this keeps up.

there is a little piece of water inbetween that might make an unpleasant interlude for both the neddies and the connections given the weather at the moment Unless they get Sheik Mohamed's Jumbo Jet horse carrier out for a couple of days and fly them down

It ran all the way along Yaldhurst Road to the 1200m mark then ran along the outer edge of the track back to the trackwork stalls. A cinder track that got a lot of use for horses trotting or walking. Gone now of course with the housing development. I doubt the CJC boosts much in the way of stakes. Whatever type of meeting you run the stake are pretty well covered by the money ex NZTR

I guess part of his success story means he is able to access paddocks for the horses - a battling operator may not be so lucky(either through not having the contacts or not being able to afford it). And you wonder if all the horses get that treatment or just the Nature Strips and Winx's of the world. It would certainly be a circus of floats going here and there if every horse in the stable got a trip to the paddock for a day or two after a race. The mental aspect of it though Pam (in a different way) - in the old days a walk around the chute at Riccarton(long gone I know), maybe swimming and/or a trip to the beach and also we regularly hear of schooling sessions switching them on when they appear to have lost enthusiasm. I remember my days forty years ago with one Maurice Carl Thornley - he was always thinking of ways to get one mentally revitalised. Even the straight out sprinter Hi Roona used to jump the odd pony hurdle to make life interesting and he also used to take horses to a swimming pool(McLaughlins at Pound Road?) long before one was installed at Riccarton. Snow Lupton rounding up cattle with Kiwi(my Uncle used to regularly use his handy horse Cappiemore for the same thing - didn't do much for the cattle's mental health but the horse enjoyed a wander though the trees and forest and a chase after some mad cow trying to escape the roundup!)

Whatever that man's supreme talent(s) is or are the major one must be management. Astonishingly good systems in place. To deal with that many horses it must be absolutely regimented and he must have some superb Lieutenants.

Really to be fair even if owners were treated like royalty by the powers that be the overall racing concept is going to suck them dry financially in the end. There is an average of say nine horses per race and only one winner so a lot more disappointment than triumph. And yes I am sure Waller and TA are passionate but they operate in a different way. Both are businesses structured(and very very well too) to operate at the top end of the racing market. That is enticing rich people to invest in horses and try their luck. No issue with that but as I have said before I wouldn't mind knowing the owner turnover statistics for them - ie there are vastly more duds than there are Nature Strips or Melody Belles and neither are cheap to deal with. The latter is the owners call but, unless there is half a leg of a Winx involved, then I think people would get the stitch quite quickly(been there done that with TA although I was aware of what I was getting myself into and did not expect it to be cheap - and it wasn't). For all that running the operations they do and attaining the success they do one has to greatly admire both TA and especially Chris Waller. He went from a battling NZ operator to heights unscaled in Aussie and probably world racing and deserves all the accolades he gets

I was going to say how Jo Gordon fills that role for all those clubs on top of all her other commitments. Probably rides all her own trackwork as well given the staff shortages. And she is not the only female trainer down there stretching herself like a shanghai with more than one job and a ton of horses to look after. You would have to absolutely love horses to do it and that is what NZTR's idiots simply do not appreciate. So many of those guys are holding on by a thread (enthusiasm wise) and it that thread snaps..... I know you too wonder why you bother sometimes Pam and yours is yet another example. This game is made up of a lot more than TA and its million dollar purchases(not that I am knocking anyone brave enough to go buying and marketing those sorts of animals but there is a lot more to this game than purely commercial considerations)

Ain't that all the truth! Otago Southland yes and no. Gallop South exists as a common Secretary/CEO group with the majority of the Otago and Southland Clubs but the Otago Racing Club works on its own. No idea what happened but it has been like that for several years

yes and somewhere down the track when the current A&P committee are all gone and the new mob forget that they only have the asset because the racing clubs gave it to them....... Decide to be a pain in the arse and demand a huge rental for the use or, if the lease is not watertight, try to worm their way out of it. Turning it over to another Incorporated Society over which you have no control would not be my preference but good luck to them(NHRC) anyway. I would love to see a pissed off and frustrated Racing Admin body unable to get their sticky fingers onto someone else's asset.

they do not liaise with the common people. Those in the clic will be well aware. After all even when they have their meetings with the clubs there are the less than three day clubs and the more than three day clubs. Needless to say I never waste my time but you can bet the info to the more than three days is a lot more than the less than three days

yes a bit odd to have a feature day (stakes wise) on a Thursday

Well if they don't have a perpetual lease how do they know that the A&P won't one day say 'sorry we are kicking you guys out'? Because if it is not perpetual it is fixed term and fixed term leases run out(just like a commercial lease). And if I was a member of the club and suddenly found out it had been evicted from the course I think I would be looking a bit sideways at the Committee who sold it for a dollar to the A&P. Read the Gary Vile thread - getting booted out summarily is a hazard of being a leasee

the right to lease or occupy a piece of ground in perpetuity(ie forever) is most definitely an incredibly valuable asset for a Racing Club especially where that piece of ground is extremely valuable. Which (from the sounds of things) is how the New Plymouth thing got cocked up - the council apparently claiming the right was granted to the NP Jockey Club(???) then that organisation changing to Racing Taranaki. Changing the entity is pretty dangerous in those scenarios(as would be losing your incorporated society status). And if you were a committee member who let it go on purpose I would not be surprised to see an HRNZ or NZTR action launched for not working towards the stated aims of the organisation I am starting to sound like a sympathiser for those wankers but remember this is potentially a lot of money for the industry and they aren't afraid to lawyer up(NZTR being known to contract Bell Gully on occasion).

And interestingly enough I see the NHRC also lost its incorporated societies status in 2019

Well you might not think so(on the face of it) Timaru and Riccarton are in the same boat. They don't own their land only lease it but ...... The NHRC might be paying a high rent but as perpetual leasee(which I assume they are) they have a massive asset to sell (as do Riccarton and Timaru) Imagine what the Richmond track would be worth in Nelson's bouyant real estate market. Timaru's the same though not as much. Remember Riccarton didn't own their land but negotiated a fortune for relinquishing only a portion of it The A&P Association could retain a chunk for their own purposes and sell off the balance. You might think that won't happen but if HRNZ were to declare Nelson surplus to requirements they can seize their assets and the right to access a block like that in perpetuity would be worth a fortune. Remember HRNZ are then in the drivers seat in terms of negotiating with the Club and I don't even think the club could relinquish their lease beforehand because the Act will(I imagine) cover 'land or an interest in land'(which a lease is) I see from its financial statements that the Club is a 50% partner in a 'Richmond Park Camp Partnership' with the A& P Society which got its 50% share in 2019 ex the now defunct Nelson Jockey Club for $1. Presumably NHRC did the same thing(sold their 50% for $1 to this Richmond Park outfit). I am sure the boys got good legal advice but with an asset of that value I am equally sure HRNZ and/or NZTR would be quite happy to go to court to test it. There is also not a lot of lease being paid according to the 2020 financial statements. I hope I am wrong but I am a little dubious of all these arrangements clubs entered into prior to the Act coming into force. The only one which I can see as being watertight was the straightout giveaway Westland entered into BUT if Hokitika was a decent sized city I would not have trusted NZTR not to challenge that as well. That Nelson real estate has to be worth tens of millions if not a hundred million and it would be well worth a test in court if it came to that. When you are a true country club like ours or Westland the property is worth bugger all(maybe $300,000 in our case and that would be split two ways) so hardly worth grabbing but when there is a fortune at stake.......... It could well be interesting

Winston getting that clause in the Racing Act (and the effing Nats not screaming blue murder about it) means they don't have to be that clever. If however the NZTR people were clever they would see the opportunity it now creates to cash up multiple high value and low returning assets of the industry and ultimately removing all the country clubs via them not being able to compete stakes wise. Lets not hold our breath for them to see it though

problem with Christchurch it wants the deluxe model covered stadium. The drawings show it is round and how much extra cost is there in having rounded corners instead of squared up. Price something similar to Dunedin's maybe with 5000 or so more seats(10000 more should be easy if you extend the ends a bit. They are living beyond their means and they already have outfits like that Horncastle arena or whatever it is called at Addington for a lot of events. Make no error HRNZ will smell blood when they close Geraldine, Rangiora and Timaru and they will want to Oamaru next(and probably Blenheim and Nelson as well though Blenheim may be an issue is GoJ is correct). And if HRNZ smell blood they will need NZTR's cooperation for the South Canterbury venues. That won't be hard to get! NZTR will love someone else leading the charge so they can say 'its not our idea' One good thing about having a property in a tiny town like Reefton - if it sells they will get eff all for it so not the incentive to cash it up.

He was in charge of the Union that the Pike workers belonged to. He did a great job there. Never sighted until the TV cameras were infesting the place when he became akin to a bad smell - wouldn't go away. St John are under immense pressure and the bottom line with an ambulance is if they(the patient) are not having breathing difficulty and they have a pulse then they wait their turn. And that is especially so if there is a qualified first aider or Paramedic on hand.