Reefton

Couldn't read the first but read the second one. Thanks for that. Interesting. Surprised there hasn't be a real kickback on that like there has been for the Westland guys(though I suppose the taking away of their racedays was the payback and NZTR does not want to irritate them too much lest they stop thoroughbreds transiting there while waiting for or coming off the ferry)

Just remind me how many they buy a year so I can put that claim that about their judgement in picking top horses into perspective? For every Gingernuts or Melody Belle they have quite a selection listed on Gavelhouse. For all that I am not knocking their judgment in horse selection. We all know it is bloody hard to win a maiden let alone a Derby or G1 so good luck to D Ellis in that. They do not produce two or three 'Gingernuts' per year either. I'm not talking about a Group1 winner I am talking about a multiple Group1 winner including in Aussie. Well I have had shares in nags with Trainers who have trained a lot more winners - if not group winners - than them(so not mugs) and would have horses there again so in my experience it is different elsewhere yes. Surprisingly loyal? They are probably like Pike and Sharrock who both - at different times in the last several years - announced they were leaving NZ but are notably still here. Going to Aussie or Hong Kong(difficult anyway to get invited) means going form being a big fish in a small pond to the little fish in the big pond. Not as simple and straightforward - nor as lucrative in many cases - as it appears. And as for whether Jamie goes well in HK or not well he has done unbelievably well to be invited. There were a lot bagging hm early on in his TA career('it was all Autridge', 'anyone could do it with that quality of stock') but he proved he was well up to the mark. He follows NZ racing royalty(PD O'Sullivan) to HK but he is the first in ten plus years to go there direct from here. I wish him all the best and hope he smashes them over there. Not that I know him well but whatever I have seen of him he is class(he ought to be - he is bred that way). Good luck to him.

Shows how much you know about the way NZB works. They are massive financiers of horses sold at their sales. Half the people buying there would have arrangements with them to finance the nags until owners are found. There was the famous case a year or two ago of a very prominent buyer/syndicator who was not allowed to bid unless someone was guaranteeing him. I do not know(and more importantly do not care) if David Ellis uses those financing facilities with NZB nor whether he gets favourable terms from them but they are certainly available. You would imagine that given the volume of his purchases he would have a pretty sweet deal if he does make use of them but as I say that is his business and between him and Peter Vela. There is no impact on the run of the mill stakeholder in the game so it is none of their concern.

Not sure that they did actually(though I could be wrong). I know they were seriously considering it and seeking legal advice(we did too) but Covid got in the way and we did not progress it and I don't think they did either. We were in contact with them. Kurow may have done something - not 100% sure there either

I'd like to know their owner turnover. Yes they might have a lot of owners at any given time but I suspect there would not be a terrible lot of people coming back for a second dose(unless they fluked a Gingernuts or something the first time). Other than the studs investing in Colts syndicates and the likes of the Lindsay's who will (I will bet) will have a special deal(as will the studs in the colts I imagine) I know I was once bitten twice shy and I know someone who is VERY well heeled who will be the same one their nag is finished(and it ain't much good so that will not be far away). For all that they were very nice to deal with and quite happy to talk and talk on racing even with a very minor client.

Unfortunately it is too late to be put in trusts or ownership transferred - the legislation puts a caveat on all club real estate - you cannot do anything with it without NZTR approval(or HRNZ as the case may be) The only ones quick enough off the mark were the Westland Racing Club and haven't little Bernard and his cronies thrown their toys out of the cot about that. Did they think clubs would just bend over and let NZTR shaft them? They must be bloody thick.

Bit fond of name dropping and telling us who he knows and what he has done Makes you wonder if he is that good and that well connected why he would want to be part of a industry clearly close to capitulation In light of this naughty boy TVNZ recently employed I also draw parallels with someone employed without a proper selection process This is going to be interesting!

The greatest all right. RIP That Arbre Chene ride - exactly the way CWJ will wait an wait and wait and then drive. Even gets headed and comes back regularly

Didn't look good on three tonight for the greyhounds. Got RSDF funding to correct a safety issue then promptly reinstated the same scenario with he same safety concerns. Sort of like if you applied to the PGF for funding to benefit the provinces then used it to the detriment of the provinces. Nobody in racing would do that surely?

Shiite I hadn't thought of it in that way Canterbury down to two galloping venues. And the only southern galloping venues north of the Waitaki river other than our three. No wonder the game is dying but equally what hope for us to retain three? Virtually none one would think. Still I suppose it is a way to get myself out of pouring dosh into a losing industry.

Even if they do rent it there will be an enormous value (in a place like Nelson) in forgoing the lease. I imagine it will be a perpetual lease so freeing up the ground would be worth an absolute fortune(the precedent of course being Riccarton getting big dollars for the ground it gave up to Ngai Tahu)

well no Freda because you see the new Act makes it clear that when a venue is declared 'surplus to requirements' by the code governing body those assets, or the proceeds thereof, are, subject to negotiation, mediation and, if necessary, seizure(read theft) via Ministerial Order to be turned over to the Code body. You can see that in train with the recent Timaru Herald article about how Harness is stopping racing at Orari, Rangiora and Washdyke. How long do you reckon NZTR will allow Thoroughbred racing to continue at Washdyke once Harness chuck the towel in? And while that venue is held on perpetual lease that lease would have a substantial value if the property were to be turned over to developers. And that value will not be going to the South Canterbury people as I bet the SCRC constitution says - it will be going into the hot little hands of Mr B Sharrock and his henchmen to be dished out to the bloated overfunded underperforming 'big' clubs. And once the two codes smell the money pot how long do you think racing in either code in places like Waterlea, Richmond, Westport, Reefton, Oamaru, Gore or even Cromwell will carry on? At least in our case the property is small and worth eff all(comparatively) so we may be able to ward the hyenas off. It's coming and in the case of Thoroughbred racing it is coming because the provincial growth fund has been allowed to be grossly misused

I was going to say hasn't there been someone on BOAY flogging that idea for years? The whole bottom line is that racing is an immensely rich industry making piss poor returns on what it is worth. And the vast vast vast majority of that worth is held by the big Clubs in land holdings. AND if they cashed up those land holdings they would be in an incredibly powerful position to eradicate the smaller venues because of the stakes they would be able to pay. The Victorians recognise it whether the sale of Sandown is popular or not. Whether the CJC can get a decent percentage of any value out of Riccarton is the question and there seems a hell of a lot of mystery about how much they got out of Ngai Tahu, whether any or all of it has ever been paid, how much they got as a settlement on that grandstand,whether any or all of that has been paid, how they got ownership of Rangiora without apparent payment and what their plans are for Rangiora. Let's see if the Rangiora assets now go directly to the Authorities under the new Racing Act. Not holding my breath

Yeah that's right Attimo broke 1.22 at Reefton. Amazing a horse could do that around a bull ring(actually it is astonishing a horse could do it at all at Reefton given how tight it is but that's another story) The reason it did it was because the track was presented in superb condition as it invariably is. Unlike the track at the South Island's claimed premier venue which is so often a shithole with inside or(more likely) outside lanes caused by the way the track is laid and by inconsistent watering. We get to practice our irrigation once a year and ALWAYS get it right - how come they are doing it virtually every week but rarely get it right? Ans the other difference between Reefton and Kumara (especially) and Riccarton is that people actually want to go to Kumara and in general they do not want to go to Riccarton. Oh and we pay our own way while they sponge off the NZ industry.

That is the contempt I mentioned summed up in one sentence. 'We do not need to justify ourselves to these peasants'

On reflection and listening to that excellent Ray Hadley thing from Brisbane this just smacks of the utter contempt that these big clubs and industry hierarchy have for the ordinary run of the mill blokes who are the absolute lifeblood of the industry. It has clearly permeated down from Petone and Parnell and outfits like RACE(and other 'big' Clubs)have developed an arrogance towards the stakeholders. If it is the owners they are providing them with shiite facilities, crap tracks and(given the cancellations) no guarantee their horse will even get to run(and a piddly $200 if it doesn't), the trainers get talked to like shit, provided with disgraceful tracks to work and race on and, in this case, ejected with little or no notice. The punters have to play lucky dip as to track quality, form reversals and whether the races will even run from one day to the next and the jockeys - well there is no better example that Awapuni in recent years of the absolute cavalier attitude towards safety. And then there are the starting gate issues that dive me nuts. If you are not Pike or Te Akau(and no doubt now Sharrock) clearly you don't count in this game. I really ought to be chucking the towel in as far as racing goes. If I thought it would get traction I would be setting up a vote of no confidence petition but I know there would be a lot(even mates of mine) who would not sign it for fear of recriminations raining down on them personally. And so we all just put up with these non entities, none of whom have ever actually done anything of note in racing themselves, driving the game into the ground. I'll say it again 'it makes me sick'

I feel for you Gary. Everytime I go up and scrub birdshit off the grandstand seats or attend to any of the hundreds of hours of work and worry in organising a racemeeting I am supporting NZ Racing but according to Sharrock and his henchmen it is them doing all that work and they are entitled to the benefit. i know the way you feel Gee he is covering himself in glory already isn't he? Wonder if his family are proud of him? NZTR own the effing racecourse according to the Act so NZTR is entitled to DEMAND mediation not try to facilitate it. Was the f*#k sort of organisation is RACE anyway doing something like that?

Yes well done guys. Bloody slick time too

FFS! That shouldn't have posted pushed save in error obviously - tried to edit it but it wouldn't let me It should be: I don't think there is so much a lack of interest in those areas in particular just a lack of interest in the South Island in general. We would like another raceday sure but the Westland situation clearly rankles with them still so we will not get that I wouldn't think(won't stop us asking but I am a lone voice really and they - quite understandably - ignore me). The issue is no thought into the pattern of racing in the South. No logical two year old series especially south of Christchurch nor much for three year olds. Ten weeks with not one feature meeting within 5 hours of Christchurch and then series of probably ten feature meetings within eleven weeks. As stated currently seven weeks with not one grass track meeting in Canterbury. From our perspective too short a timeframe for our meetings(but we are a minor issue in the bigger scheme of things to be fair). I think there is a pretty fair distribution of feature meetings (maybe the CJC has got a one or two too many - but clearly Mills has sway at NZTR(having plenty of time to be in their ear)). Timaru definitely deserves one or two given the shit days they put up with in winter. There just needs to be a better pattern of racing that's all and it needs some innovators in regards the type of racing(claiming races, going back to the old 'for horses that have not won a race in the past year' or 'horses that have not won more than $10k in the last year'. That type of thing). Just some thinking required to try to keep old geldings in particular in work. Your would still have your pinnacles(GN Meeting, Cup Meeting, Dunedin in Feb and Riccarton in the Autumn) and they would still be at the same time just a better pattern through the year. As I said I even offered to do it for them if they aren't up to it but I bloody shouldn't have to. Have they got nobody up there capable of a bit of actual innovative thinking? If they haven't then God help the NZ industry but from where I sit all they are interested in doing is pandering to the big Clubs and vested interests in the North.

I don't think there is so much a lack of interest in those areas in particular just a lack of interest in the South Island in general We would like another raceday sure but the Westland situation clearly rankles with them still so we will not get that I wouldn't think. The issue is no thought into the pattern of racing in the South. No logical two year old series especially south of Christchurch nor much for three year olds. Ten weeks with not one feature meeting within 5 hours of Christchurch and then series of probably ten feature meetings within eleven weeks. As stated seven weeks with not one grass track meeting in Canterbury. From our perspective too short a timeframe for our meetings(but we are a minor issue in the bigger scheme of things to be fair. I think there is a pretty fair distribution of feature meetings (maybe the CJC has got a one of two too many - but clearly Mills has sway at NZTR(having plenty of time to be in their ear). Timaru definitely deserves one or two given the shit days they put up with in winter. There just needs to be a better pattern of racing that's all and it needs some innovators in regards the type of racing(claiming races, going back to the old 'for horses that have not won a race in the past year' or 'horses that have not won more than $10k in the last year'. That type of thing. Just some thinking re It is just that the

I live 50 miles away Michael but would imagine given we(the Coast) have had quite a bit of rain a slow 8(or is it a heavy 8 now). Natural irrigation only in the last 4 months Thank you for asking

Wouldn't happen at Reefton

I do have to note my surprise at the way B de Lore changed from an absolute Messara devotee (I know he used to work for him) to quite strongly anti the concepts in a hurry. Would have to say the Messara report has drastically affected the morale of the local industry (which was bad enough before it came out). Any one who ever trusted Winston wants their head read.

The foal crops and pattern racing may be a little bit of a sideshow but they are a direct result of the demise of the local industry. When (many years ago) I studied economics they spoke of a country's 'comparative advantage'. Being an activity that a country was superior to in so logic said that that country should be producing that commodity for the world. Well one of NZ's comparative advantage activity was breeding thoroughbred racehorses. Sad to think the breeding game is in serious danger of being buggered

Plunket did it. All those wonderful people(mainly women I guess) who volunteered for years in the districts and fundraised to get their clinics built in all the rural towns then the national organisation grabbed the lot and sold them off. Disgraceful. I don't doubt Rugby would do it if theh could but most of those grounds would be council owned or reserves.