The Real Sherlock

[Chief Stipe]

31 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

I think this shows duty of care . horses need treatments to race at that level. anything you can do helping in recovery and that is good for the horse. At that top level you'd flatten em pretty quick without some aids and good nutrition.

The horses could have been dehydrated. 

[the galah]

45 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

It was an IV drip mate. (so it says on early report)  they once used to put them on football players at half-time ,  but banned it in the end because the teams that did that had distinct advantage 2nd half .  

They pop them on any miriad of hospital patients for any number of reasons . extra saline to help blood pressure , so on and  so forth.. it's no huge technology cheat thing ? 

The Eureka winner was in the retention barn mate. so a 'clear 1 day threshold' of administration would of been achieved in that case. so why take the race off it ? unless it returns a positive later on.   

I think this shows duty of care . horses need treatments to race at that level. anything you can do helping in recovery and that is good for the horse. At that top level you'd flatten em pretty quick without some aids and good nutrition. 

Seems the timing was wrong with this case in question. (the one day thing) you'd be surprised mate How much horses get something an hour before a race , on the truck , in the washbay , (behind the wash bay lol) ... the day before ?? geeez why bother worrying  . 

The Emma Stewart Barn still had 2 horses in the Maryborough Gold Cup Sunday, even after stewards scratched Act Now from the race for the dreaded 'Day before' treatment. The 2 horses ran great races 3rd and 4th behind the Odds on favourite Rock N Roll Doo   . (the horse that went over there for the Nz Cup last year )  

NZ Horse KANGO having first Australia start in that race as well , (last start was AKLD cup in May), and went like a busted arse after sitting one-one. Maybe could of done with being stabled at the Emma Stewart complex to get some solid treatments like AMORE VITA did/has/gets ? , for her Nz connections .. take with pinch of salt mate 😁 and good humour of course 😉

i've read your comments over the years and realise you don't condone cheating and believe a horses physical welfare is of great importance and horses should be treated with respect.

Having said that,in this case i think you are being far too charitable and in looking for a best case scenario to paint the stewart stable in a better light,you are ignoring the obvious.

 

Just google I.V. drips in athletes and horses and read what they say it can be used for and why they are illegal within the time frame that applied in this case.

It says on many sites

"I.V. drips are banned because they can increase performance by increasing plasma volume levels,mask the use of prohibited substances and distort blood test results and other physiological measurements obtained and used to check for descrepiancies that might indicate doping."

I think its pretty obvious what they were doing and they should be disqualified for a long time. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by the galah

[paleface adios]

14 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

The horses could have been dehydrated. 

are you a sandwich short of a picnic

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, paleface adios said:

are you a sandwich short of a picnic

Isn't it worse to be a 6 pack short of a carton ? (that really sucks when someone takes your beer)

 

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

The horses could have been dehydrated. 

Definitely possible up here. Never drenched them in Victoria though. This Thursday we'll still be racing at Redcliffe and gunna be 35 degrees here. The trainers will be tubing , dripping feeding whatever they can do straight after . to look after their horses recovery.  You should see the giant bucket of 'black' water (with all sorts of stuff in it ) that sits outside the stalls on race days of the 'better' Trainers, that the horses guzzle into,  They take Immeadiate action after the race to start the horses recovery and avoid the dehydration . 

Yes I know ... what about the 'day before' and what's in that    .... but whatever  🙄..... go and ask Grimson and Trainor I reckon ?? 😆   (but don't get punched lol) 😉😁

Edited September 19, 2023 by Gammalite

[Chief Stipe]

On 19/09/2023 at 7:05 PM, Chief Stipe said:

The horses could have been dehydrated. 

 

On 19/09/2023 at 7:21 PM, paleface adios said:

are you a sandwich short of a picnic

Yep it was a drench.

 

 

[the galah]

On 19/09/2023 at 7:05 PM, Chief Stipe said:

The horses could have been dehydrated. 

 

If that were the case,it doesn't say much about how they look after their horses if they have horses getting dehydrated at their stables so badly they need to put them on a drip on raceday.

Do they not provide proper stabling or feed or access to water or electrolytes?Anyway if the horses were that bad,how poor a trainers do you think they are to only recognise the horses were dehydrated on the day of the races and not the days proir.

If it walks like a duck,quacks like a duck,then its very likely its a duck.

Edited September 21, 2023 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, the galah said:

 

If that were the case,it doesn't say much about how they look after their horses if they have horses getting dehydrated at their stables so badly they need to put them on a drip on raceday.

Do they not provide proper stabling or feed or access to water or electrolytes?Anyway if the horses were that bad,how poor a trainers do you think they are to only recognise the horses were dehydrated on the day of the races and not the days proir.

If it walks like a duck,quacks like a duck,then its very likely its a duck.

There's an old saying Galah - "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink".

Dehydration can happen very quickly and it also may have been preventative.  Yes should have given it 24 hours prior to the race.

No doubt the horses were swabbed and blood taken so any performance enhancing drugs will be picked up.  So no quacking ducks there.

It is actually one of the weaknesses in the 24 hour rule as you also can't apply such a treatment on course AFTER a race unless the horse is in considerable distress and requires vet treatment.

With the hot summer on the horizon it is going to be hard work keeping in work horses hydrated.

If it wasn't Hartmann's solution then it will be fairly obvious in testing.  Full details of the solution can be found on this thread:

https://bitofayarn.com/topic/102237-emma-stewart-statement-a-drench/

[Chief Stipe]

On 19/09/2023 at 8:25 PM, Gammalite said:

The trainers will be tubing , dripping feeding whatever they can do straight after . to look after their horses recovery.  You should see the giant bucket of 'black' water (with all sorts of stuff in it ) that sits outside the stalls on race days of the 'better' Trainers, that the horses guzzle into,  They take Immeadiate action after the race to start the horses recovery and avoid the dehydration . 

My understanding is you can't tube on course after a race let alone have the equipment in your possession.

When you get off the course and down the road you can but I guess that wouldn't be a good look either.

A lot of these rules are all about appearances rather than in the best interests of the horse.

[Gammalite]

And he Wins !! The Real Sherlock at 15-1 knocks off the 2 Emma Stewart runners (that'll please The Galah too 😁) tonight in the Victoria Derby heat for Mark and Nathan and New Zealand !! 

what a great driver that Greg Sugars is ... probably equal best in Aus with Cam Hart.

Drove him brilliantly from the worst barrier draw possible. 'The Lost Storm' who started in the Eureka was run over by the flying 'Sherlock ' .. fantastic.🏆 

Hope and fingers crossed for a Closer in barrier draw in the Victoria Derby Final next week !!!

[Gammalite]

Ya wouldn't read about it , The Real Sherlock has drawn the Car-park again. Greg will have to pull a miracle to win the Derby from there .

WOODLANDS STUD VICTORIA DERBY FINAL	2760M
$200,000 3YO. 3YO. RBD. PACERS. Mobile	2ND LEG QUADDIE

	Form	Horse	Trainer	Other Eng.	Driver		Class	Hcp
1	21195	CAPTAIN HAMMERHEAD	David Moran		David Moran		NR77	FR1
2	15s17	DUKES CHOICE (Em 1)	Zeke Slater		Jack Laugher		NR60	FR-
3	1s2	CELEBRITY ROYAL	Emma Stewart		Zac Chappenden (C)		NR56	FR2
4	21064	ROSANNA REBEL	Terry Howard		Michael Bellman		NR67	FR3
5	32046	OUR VINCENT CAN GOGH NZ	Julie Douglas		Daryl Douglas		NR67	FR4
6	31225	LOUIE LOU I NZ	Chris Svanosio		Ross Payne		NR78	FR5
7	s1311	THE REAL SHERLOCK NZ	M Purdon, N Purdon		Greg Sugars		NR84	FR6
------------------------------ Second Row ------------------------------
8	10116	OLIVER DAN	Emma Stewart		James Herbertson (C)		NR68	SR1
9	s1414	CAPTAINS KNOCK	Brad Hewitt		Nathan Jack		NR66	SR2
10	01111	PETRACCA	Emma Stewart		Mark Pitt		NR86	SR3
11	12312	PERFECT CLASS	Emma Stewart		Kerryn Manning		NR77	SR4
12	11173	THE LOST STORM	Emma Stewart		Mark Pitt		NR88	SR5
13	43323	FINAL COLLECT NZ	Leilani Justice		Jackie Barker		NR78	SR6

[Gammalite]

Greg Sugars is on fire so far .  at Melton tonight with the 5 Group 1's on. 

Won with Rakero Rebel (was that Dalgety's ?) early in night paying $50.

Greg has Won the first Group 1 , The Victoria Trotters Oaks with a 10/10 drive to beat the Hot Fav. SHE'sRUBY ROO winning .

The 2 New Zealand trotters ran unplaced unfortunately. Shez Bella(Ferguson) and Virginia Clowers (Donnolly) 

Greg says THE REAL SHERLOCK is a Real Chance tonight in the Derby too. (live on TV tonight being interviewed after that trotters Oaks)

Has the pole draw in the Victoria Cup too with BETTER ECLIPSE . should nearly win . 

 

  

Edited October 14, 2023 by Gammalite

[Gammalite]

Bad Luck Mr Galah . Emma Stewart Strikes Again.... !!!!!!  She's too good mate. 

Greg Sugars did his best for the NZ nation and Purdon stable,  taking The Real Sherlock to the lead . But he stopped to a walk the last quarter unfortunately.😪

And EMMA engages the 2 Champion NSW drivers for her horses  😳  wow wee >>> Cam Hart and Luke McCarthy  .. and they run 1st and 2nd !!!!  in the Blue Riband Victoria Derby. Petracca (Hart) wins from Perfect Class (McCarthy lucky pick up drive) 

 

[the galah]

14 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Bad Luck Mr Galah . Emma Stewart Strikes Again.... !!!!!!  She's too good mate. 

Greg Sugars did his best for the NZ nation and Purdon stable,  taking The Real Sherlock to the lead . But he stopped to a walk the last quarter unfortunately.😪

And EMMA engages the 2 Champion NSW drivers for her horses  😳  wow wee >>> Cam Hart and Luke McCarthy  .. and they run 1st and 2nd !!!!  in the Blue Riband Victoria Derby. Petracca (Hart) wins from Perfect Class (McCarthy lucky pick up drive) 

 

It doesn't upset me in any way that stewart dominates over there. .Personally i would prefer to see someone else that i don't think uses performance enhancers,even if stewarts horses won't return positives. But the reality is the more sophisticated and the more resources stables have to use the latest thing to enhance performance,even if they are legal,simply put is the difference between winning or not.

Like i have said before,people go on about how a couple of trainers are simply way ahead of everyone else because they have the best horses,training facilities,latest training techniques,simply way more skilled,etc,etc.         

Then claim that hey,they are better than everyone else at everything except when it comes to knowledge and resources to use the latest performance enhancer,legal or not testable or not. I think that part is just ignoring the obvious .

Thats why i prefer seeing someone other than stewart win the likes of the victoria cup with the horse she admitted giving an illegal treatment to a couple of weeks ago.But just because it doesn't really float my boat,its just my view of what i think is an obvious reality.but i accept it is what it is and no point getting annoyed about things like that in another country.

I watched the everest yesterday. looked a great occasion. And when i was watching trackside last week a 1.3 million dollar dog race was on. Amazing how much money they can run for over there.

Edited October 15, 2023 by the galah

[Gammalite]

4 hours ago, the galah said:

It doesn't upset me in any way that stewart dominates over there. .Personally i would prefer to see someone else that i don't think uses performance enhancers,even if stewarts horses won't return positives. But the reality is the more sophisticated and the more resources stables have to use the latest thing to enhance performance,even if they are legal,simply put is the difference between winning or not.

Like i have said before,people go on about how a couple of trainers are simply way ahead of everyone else because they have the best horses,training facilities,latest training techniques,simply way more skilled,etc,etc.         

Then claim that hey,they are better than everyone else at everything except when it comes to knowledge and resources to use the latest performance enhancer,legal or not testable or not. I think that part is just ignoring the obvious .

Thats why i prefer seeing someone other than stewart win the likes of the victoria cup with the horse she admitted giving an illegal treatment to a couple of weeks ago.But just because it doesn't really float my boat,its just my view of what i think is an obvious reality.but i accept it is what it is and no point getting annoyed about things like that in another country.

I watched the everest yesterday. looked a great occasion. And when i was watching trackside last week a 1.3 million dollar dog race was on. Amazing how much money they can run for over there.

Yes I have no doubt that Emma Stewart and partner Clayton (as well as Grimson ) and even Purdons and especially McCarthy's and Dunn's  (with 2 or 3  of the boys from those families based in the states with the latest knowhow all comes from )   would have the ability and funds and important connections to have the latest treatment, and horse training protocols/method going.  therefore they are more successful than those regular around them. 

Funnily enough Emma Stewart has a lot more regular owners than say Purdon or even Grant Dixon with Leap To Fame even (who trains 80 horses for 3 millionaire owners basically ) A lot of Mark and Nathans winners over the years have been basically the same Millionaire owners. that Victorian Lady Fiess and that  . When will they ever be satisfied ? 

Emma Stewart has a lot of fairly regular people owners . I find that nice . Act Now the Vic Cup winner (and also the Vic Oaks winner for Emma last night had quite a pleasant chap and his wife there as owners) . I love seeing some regular folk win too. so that was nice. only more likely to win if they their horse with the best/leading barns though.  

I find it fun watching some try to bridge the gap . you see it with Telfers, and we have Grimson lol...  Love ones (horses)  like 'Gammalite' or 'Village Kid' of gallops  'Takeover Target' or 'Vo Rogue' as those ones it was ALL horse Ability and NOT what stable they were in. 

those days are GONE, and Usually, just like that GOLDOLPHIN mob and that Te AKAU mb at the big gallops  , the feature races will Fall to the BIG Guns and Millionaire operators. Allstars and Emma Stewart (Hall stable in the west) 

BTW (The Real Sherlock stopped in the Derby , as alas  has had a heart malfunction/arrythmia of some kind ) bit of a shame as was primed to win and went out tote favourite in the end .

 

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, the galah said:

the horse she admitted giving an illegal treatment to a couple of weeks ago.But

The treatment substance wasn't illegal just the timing which was out by a few hours.

[Blackie]

Therefore, an illegal treatment, Gammalite is right there.

Wouldn’t matter if it was pure water in the bag, you can’t be treating them within the 48 hr period, as the rules stand.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Blackie

[Chief Stipe]

16 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

would have the ability and funds and important connections to have the latest treatment, and horse training protocols/method going.  therefore they are more successful than those regular around them. 

Recently I've had the opportunity to get a closer view of the protocols and treatments a major stable uses.  The commitment to detail regarding nutrition, monitoring of the horses health and proactive measures have opened my eyes even more.  None of it is illegal but it is easy to see how it gives an advantage.

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Blackie said:

Therefore, an illegal treatment, Gammalite is right there.

Just the timing was against the rules not what was being administered.  

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Recently I've had the opportunity to get a closer view of the protocols and treatments a major stable uses.  The commitment to detail regarding nutrition, monitoring of the horses health and proactive measures have opened my eyes even more.  None of it is illegal but it is easy to see how it gives an advantage.

I accept everything you say there but believe their are many successful trainers who take those steps.Obviously the willingness of owners to pay costs associated with what you say is a factor.But many of those trainers once viewed as top trainers simply are not able to match a couple of stables when it comes to the big races. 

So the dominance of a couple of stables in the big races and the perceived improvement seen on those big days leads people to lose hope of ever owning or training a big race winner.Many people used to once have hopes and aspirations of owning a big race winner but thats not todays reality. That has been a factor in the industries base of participants diminishing in numbers.  Not the only reason but certainly an important one.

[Chief Stipe]

18 hours ago, the galah said:

So the dominance of a couple of stables in the big races and the perceived improvement seen on those big days leads people to lose hope of ever owning or training a big race winner.Many people used to once have hopes and aspirations of owning a big race winner but thats not todays reality.

What do you propose to "level the playing field"?

You could always sign up to a syndicate and all the fun of ownership for little expense.