The Invitation: an example of where novelty races in NSW is going wrong. NZ's South Island Only Race Too!

[Chief Stipe]

$2m up for grabs for fillies and mares - race entry by invitation only.  No black type.

Screws the race pattern.

Espiona current favorite assuming she doesn't accept for The Manikato.

This is the likely field:

 

[Huey]

Better than the Country Cups race that was supposed to be for the smaller stables and has been attacked by bigger stables 2nd liners.

https://www.nswcountryandpicnicracing.com.au/the-big-dance-leaves-country-trainers-holding-grave-concerns-for-the-future/

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Huey said:

Better than the Country Cups race that was supposed to be for the smaller stables and has been attacked by bigger stables 2nd liners.

https://www.nswcountryandpicnicracing.com.au/the-big-dance-leaves-country-trainers-holding-grave-concerns-for-the-future/

I'm not so sure V'landys IS the best thing for NSW Racing.

[holy ravioli]

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm not so sure V'landys IS the best thing for NSW Racing.

I read that story.I noted it was acknowledged by country trainers that club turnover was increased by the concept.

That's really the money shot!

As for V'Landys....its just your tall poppy prejudice...kicking..in.😉

[Chief Stipe]

45 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

I read that story.I noted it was acknowledged by country trainers that club turnover was increased by the concept.

That's really the money shot!

As for V'Landys....its just your tall poppy prejudice...kicking..in.😉

Well obviously The Invitation doesn't have many tall poppies.  

[holy ravioli]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

Well obviously The Invitation doesn't have many tall poppies.  

Noms seem to refute that...statement.

[Chief Stipe]

15 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

Noms seem to refute that...statement.

It is an INVITATION race you don't nominate you get an invite!

The top ranked horse by the bookies is Espiona!

[holy ravioli]

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

It is an INVITATION race you don't nominate you get an invite!

The top ranked horse by the bookies is Espiona!

Field shown clearly says pre-noms...what does that mean?

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

Field shown clearly says pre-noms...what does that mean?

It means the TAB doesn't have a button to press that says "Pre-invite"!

Hint:  the clue was in the name of the race.

[holy ravioli]

8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

It means the TAB doesn't have a button to press that says "Pre-invite"!

Hint:  the clue was in the name of the race.

Using logic pre noms covers it.

Pre invites  would be a construct/a fiction.You're invited or you're not.

[curious]

I wonder about similar races appearing here. For example, the 350k SI trained race next April. Given that the big stables have SI arms, will that really work the way it seems to be intended?

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, curious said:

I wonder about similar races appearing here. For example, the 350k SI trained race next April. Given that the big stables have SI arms, will that really work the way it seems to be intended?

"NZTR will be the sole judge to determine eligibility to compete."

Interesting rule.

The big stables will pillage.  That's what happens when you distort the market.

 

[curious]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

"NZTR will be the sole judge to determine eligibility to compete."

Interesting rule.

The big stables will pillage.  That's what happens when you distort the market.

 

That's what makes it essentially an invitation race isn't it?

[Freda]

16 hours ago, curious said:

I wonder about similar races appearing here. For example, the 350k SI trained race next April. Given that the big stables have SI arms, will that really work the way it seems to be intended?

IMO ?      No.

[curious]

16 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

"NZTR will be the sole judge to determine eligibility to compete."

Interesting rule.

The big stables will pillage.  That's what happens when you distort the market.

 

That particular example seems rather ill thought out and poorly defined. Why the Wellington Cup carnival is specifically mentioned doesn't make sense. SI based horses during the period which tackle other NI races will be excluded? The description of the primary requirement "located at a SI training facility from midnight 31 December" ... what does that mean? Presumably the horse can't go for a spell  or therapy during that time? Or are SI spelling/therapy facilities, training facilities? Is the beach a training facility?

If you go by the definition of that in the rules a lot of SI trained horses will be ruled out. The likes of the Parsons' stable, a big part of the Pitman stable etc. spring to mind.

Training Facility means any place at which horses are actively trained or worked and:
(a) which is owned, leased or occupied by a Club;
(b) in respect of which a Club has any right or ability to access; or
(c) which is reasonably believed by NZTR or a Tribunal to be in some way used by a Club

Why December 31? You'd think for this to possibly advantage SI based horses it should be for the season or thereabouts. Otherwise, a horse can have a spring campaign from a NI base perhaps culminating cup week here, then a spell and back in work for the target race from December 31.

Then, as you say, NZTR being the sole judge raises the question of whether the big players will be able to make an acceptable case for eligibility whereas the small players may not.

[holy ravioli]

'Ill thought out'....encompasses the default setting for NZTR....for decades.

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, curious said:

That particular example seems rather ill thought out and poorly defined. Why the Wellington Cup carnival is specifically mentioned doesn't make sense. SI based horses during the period which tackle other NI races will be excluded? The description of the primary requirement "located at a SI training facility from midnight 31 December" ... what does that mean? Presumably the horse can't go for a spell  or therapy during that time? Or are SI spelling/therapy facilities, training facilities? Is the beach a training facility?

If you go by the definition of that in the rules a lot of SI trained horses will be ruled out. The likes of the Parsons' stable, a big part of the Pitman stable etc. spring to mind.

What are the other conditions?  If you have a 3yr old and go tackle a black type race in the North Island - spend two weeks away does that make you ineligible for this race?

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

What are the other conditions?  If you have a 3yr old and go tackle a black type race in the North Island - spend two weeks away does that make you ineligible for this race?

NZTR will be the sole judge to determine eligibility

Of course, sole judge has legal definitions. It is not the same as absolute judge. There is serious money at stake (175k to the winner cf 60k for second). If a horse that clearly complies gets beaten by one whose eligibility is questionable, I could see this going to court if they don't clarify the eligibility conditions. At the same time, it might be a good idea to make them more conducive and restricted to SI based horses. Great that they have this opportunity all the same but I can't see it being much more attractive a mission than a comparable NI race, maybe a black type one if it's a filly or mare.

[Chief Stipe]

I imagine Te Akau will be targeting it.  On The Bubbles is now resident in the south.

[Reefton]

 Bit ironic this but the stakes increases for feature/premier meetings actually encourage the likes of Te Akau/Marsh to set up Southern operations.  'Easy' money for the likes of an On the Bubbles who has, for one reason or another(I have no idea and no interest) drifted down the grades.  Would it be better to spread that good money out a little more so that the likes of Timaru Kurow Kumara can have better stakes days so South Island stakeholders have a better chance(maybe not at Kumara)?

Re the $350K race they would be better to say 'For horses trained by licence holders having their principal training operation in the South Island. Further not open to horses previously trained by ineligible trainers but transferred to eligible trainers within the last 12 months'.  The way it is worded I would be surprised if there is a true South Island horse finishes in the first five. 

   

 

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, Reefton said:

'Easy' money for the likes of an On the Bubbles who has, for one reason or another(I have no idea and no interest) drifted down the grades. 

Had a wind operation I believe.

[Chief Stipe]

What isn't clear is the objective of the race.  What are they trying to achieve?  If that was clearly defined then the rules would be easier to make!

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Reefton said:

 Bit ironic this but the stakes increases for feature/premier meetings actually encourage the likes of Te Akau/Marsh to set up Southern operations.  'Easy' money for the likes of an On the Bubbles who has, for one reason or another(I have no idea and no interest) drifted down the grades.  Would it be better to spread that good money out a little more so that the likes of Timaru Kurow Kumara can have better stakes days so South Island stakeholders have a better chance(maybe not at Kumara)?

Re the $350K race they would be better to say 'For horses trained by licence holders having their principal training operation in the South Island. Further not open to horses previously trained by ineligible trainers but transferred to eligible trainers within the last 12 months'.  The way it is worded I would be surprised if there is a true South Island horse finishes in the first five. 

   

 

They don't believe in the benefits of spreading, they have always been solely focused on but a few.

Heres hoping they do get that $350k race right for the SI trainers.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Huey said:

They don't believe in the benefits of spreading, they have always been solely focused on but a few.

Heres hoping they do get that $350k race right for the SI trainers.

So that's the objective?  Give South Island trainers only the chance of winning a $350k race?  The whole concept seems to be a bit off.  

[holy ravioli]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

So that's the objective?  Give South Island trainers only the chance of winning a $350k race?  The whole concept seems to be a bit off.  

Trying to spread the $$$$ around...it's blatant...SOCIALISM!😉