The Invitation: an example of where novelty races in NSW is going wrong. NZ's South Island Only Race Too!

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

Trying to spread the $$$$ around...it's blatant...SOCIALISM!😉

That's one way of looking at it.

But what quality field would you get?  16 horses over 1600m?  I'd imagine the quality would drop off real quick after 7 or 8.

[Chief Stipe]

Actually thinking about this a bit more isn't the industry going down  the same stupid path it has done before?  Spending windfall profits on stakes for a few while neglecting the infrastructure.  Wouldn't $350k a year be better spent on improving the track and training facilities at Riccarton?

[Huey]

20 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

So that's the objective?  Give South Island trainers only the chance of winning a $350k race?  The whole concept seems to be a bit off.  

How is that different to the sweepstakes races ?

[Huey]

3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Actually thinking about this a bit more isn't the industry going down  the same stupid path it has done before?  Spending windfall profits on stakes for a few while neglecting the infrastructure.  Wouldn't $350k a year be better spent on improving the track and training facilities at Riccarton?

Yes, but they probably think they'll fix the infrastructure from the windfall from the asset sales.

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, Huey said:

How is that different to the sweepstakes races ?

Good point but those Karaka races have some quality about them.

Here we are leading up to Cup week at Riccarton and there is an Open Handicap 1400m race on Saturday with 13 starters with an average rating of 81. 

[curious]

34 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Good point but those Karaka races have some quality about them.

Here we are leading up to Cup week at Riccarton and there is an Open Handicap 1400m race on Saturday with 13 starters with an average rating of 81. 

Only 3 rated over 85!

[curious]

1 hour ago, holy ravioli said:

Trying to spread the $$$$ around...it's blatant...SOCIALISM!😉

Handicap racing, if done properly, is blatant socialism too though they can't even do that right here.

Edited October 25, 2023 by curious

[Tesio]

“Open to all horses trained by a trainer operating a Trainers Premises (as defined in the Rules) located in the South Island as at 1 August 2023”

 

Which North Island trainers operate a Trainers Premise in the Sth as at 1 August 2023? Is it just Marsh Racing?

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, Tesio said:

Which North Island trainers operate a Trainers Premise in the Sth as at 1 August 2023? Is it just Marsh Racing?

@Freda can probably tell us but Te Akau are there and Kenny Rae(?).

[curious]

14 minutes ago, Tesio said:

“Open to all horses trained by a trainer operating a Trainers Premises (as defined in the Rules) located in the South Island as at 1 August 2023”

 

Which North Island trainers operate a Trainers Premise in the Sth as at 1 August 2023? Is it just Marsh Racing?

Oh. That's a refinement on the rules I posted. Where did you see that?

Edited October 25, 2023 by curious

[curious]

9 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

@Freda can probably tell us but Te Akau are there and Kenny Rae(?).

And will that eliminate the likes of Parson's who don't operate from club owned facilities?

[Tesio]

13 minutes ago, curious said:

Oh. That's a refinement on the rules I posted. Where did you see that?

https://loveracing.nz/RaceInfo/42384/Meeting-News-Article.aspx

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, holy ravioli said:

Trying to spread the $$$$ around...it's blatant...SOCIALISM!😉

Piss off and ruin another Topic somewhere else while adults discuss this concept race and its obvious flaws here.

[curious]

17 minutes ago, Tesio said:

https://loveracing.nz/RaceInfo/42384/Meeting-News-Article.aspx

Thanks Tesio. That certainly tidies up a few of the matters I raised.

[Chief Stipe]

Full terms and conditions.

Innovation Races 23-24.pdf

[Doomed]

I'm not a fan of all these gimmicky races. Sydney is destroying the pattern in Australia with all their non group, high staked gimmick races. The supporting races on Caulfield Cup day were pretty ordinary. There must be quite a few group races in Australia due for a down grading, even some of Sydney's own group races.

And these stupid NZ novelty races are just taking the piss to be honest. A one win race at Trentham worth more than the Wgtn Cup, and a novelty race at Riccarton worth more than the NZ Cup. Too stupid for words really. All thought up I would imagine by some bright spark who had never been to a race-meeting until a few months ago. Someone who probably thinks Karaka day and NZ Cup day are what NZ racing is all about.

The original concept for the Riccarton race forgot that Trentham over Cup week relies on SI horses for numbers and by going to Trentham to race for $65,000 horses became ineligible for a $350,000.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg, who knows what other great ideas they are just waiting to unleash. I fully expect a race restricted to horses trained at Ellerslie and Trentham, seems like a good idea surely?

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Doomed said:

I'm not a fan of all these gimmicky races. Sydney is destroying the pattern in Australia with all their non group, high staked gimmick races. The supporting races on Caulfield Cup day were pretty ordinary. There must be quite a few group races in Australia due for a down grading, even some of Sydney's own group races.

My thoughts exactly.  The NZ novelty races are worse because we have fewer horse numbers than OZ to draw on.  A bit deja vu.  Reminiscent of past so called "boom times" where the industry wasted money on similar races.  Remember the Kelt!

I see these new ones have nice PC names as well.

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, Doomed said:

And these stupid NZ novelty races are just taking the piss to be honest. A one win race at Trentham worth more than the Wgtn Cup, and a novelty race at Riccarton worth more than the NZ Cup.

Who's going to wager on them?

[Doomed]

18 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

My thoughts exactly.  The NZ novelty races are worse because we have fewer horse numbers than OZ to draw on.  A bit deja vu.  Reminiscent of past so called "boom times" where the industry wasted money on similar races.  Remember the Kelt!

I see these new ones have nice PC names as well.

At least the Kelt was largely funded by one fly by night big noter, it didn't chew up industry money. The classic waste was all of Winston's million dollar races that achieved zero. The Derbies were won by total non entities and the Oaks winners were largely sold off shore.

[Doomed]

On the subject of Sydney and all the changes and big money there is the CINCOTTA CHEMIST CALLANDER-PRESNELL, a $1m group 2 race, something us traditionalists would know better under another name or is it a newish race?

[curious]

3 hours ago, Doomed said:

On the subject of Sydney and all the changes and big money there is the CINCOTTA CHEMIST CALLANDER-PRESNELL, a $1m group 2 race, something us traditionalists would know better under another name or is it a newish race?

Was the Stan Fox Stakes but not sure if that was its original name or not.

[Tesio]

17 hours ago, Doomed said:

I'm not a fan of all these gimmicky races. Sydney is destroying the pattern in Australia with all their non group, high staked gimmick races. The supporting races on Caulfield Cup day were pretty ordinary. There must be quite a few group races in Australia due for a down grading, even some of Sydney's own group races.

And these stupid NZ novelty races are just taking the piss to be honest. A one win race at Trentham worth more than the Wgtn Cup, and a novelty race at Riccarton worth more than the NZ Cup. Too stupid for words really. All thought up I would imagine by some bright spark who had never been to a race-meeting until a few months ago. Someone who probably thinks Karaka day and NZ Cup day are what NZ racing is all about.

The original concept for the Riccarton race forgot that Trentham over Cup week relies on SI horses for numbers and by going to Trentham to race for $65,000 horses became ineligible for a $350,000.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg, who knows what other great ideas they are just waiting to unleash. I fully expect a race restricted to horses trained at Ellerslie and Trentham, seems like a good idea surely?

If you have a look at the rules, Sth Island horses can still go to Trentham and race at their carnival.

[Doomed]

4 hours ago, Tesio said:

If you have a look at the rules, Sth Island horses can still go to Trentham and race at their carnival.

Yes, but not under the original proposal. I am pretty sure they refined it when they realised it was poorly thought out. Still poorly thought out of course, but not as stupid as originally.

[curious]

27 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Yes, but not under the original proposal. I am pretty sure they refined it when they realised it was poorly thought out. Still poorly thought out of course, but not as stupid as originally.

No. As I posted above, allowance to run contenders at the Wellington Cup meeting was there in the initial NZTR release. The refined conditions have actually removed that statement but I don't think they are precluded from racing wherever they want to.

Edited October 26, 2023 by curious

[Doomed]

39 minutes ago, curious said:

No. As I posted above, allowance to run contenders at the Wellington Cup meeting was there in the initial NZTR release. The refined conditions have actually removed that statement but I don't think they are precluded from racing wherever they want to.

You are probably correct there. I recall thinking there were some strange anomalies. What I was probably thinking about was that it precluded southerners from racing at the March meeting at Trentham. Southern 3yos had quite a good record in the Levin Classic, but that may have been moved now anyhow. Love racing website is down so can't check that. It still means southerners can't race at Trentham in March and be eligible for their own race. Seems strange to create a race that potentially means horses have to miss a group race elsewhere so they can be eligible for a richer non group race. I do struggle to understand how that helps the racing pattern, but greater minds than mine have obviously thought it through.