Mr grimsons after race comments

[the galah]

I heard him refer to swayzee proving the haters wrong who said he wouldn't go away.

For a bloke who seems to train so many winners and he should be walking around with a smile on his face all the time.

weren't his comments about the haters really an unwitting acknowledgement that he lets others opinions get to him.I guess thats why the queensland thing happened.But you could say it does add an edge to the racing,and makes it more interesting in some ways i suppose.But hey hes just trained the winner of the nz cup and he was just  being honest,irrespective of whether what he said is what some may not think is a good strategy for him.

Edited November 14, 2023 by the galah

[the galah]

22 minutes ago, the galah said:

I heard him refer to swayzee proving the haters wrong who said he wouldn't go away.

For a bloke who seems to train so many winners and he should be walking around with a smile on his face all the time.

weren't his comments about the haters really an unwitting acknowledgement that he lets others opinions get to him.I guess thats why the queensland thing happened.But you could say it does add an edge to the racing,and makes it more interesting in some ways i suppose.But hey hes just trained the winner of the nz cup and he was just  being honest,irrespective of whether what he said is what some may not think is a good strategy for him.

Actually when you think about how much he improved Cya Art in just under 2 weeks,you would expect M Guerin to be telling us on the next box seat that trainers like the telfers need to up their game. Cya Art a nice horse,but lets be honest,yesterdays run was the best we have seen from him by far. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

6 hours ago, the galah said:

Actually when you think about how much he improved Cya Art in just under 2 weeks,you would expect M Guerin to be telling us on the next box seat that trainers like the telfers need to up their game. Cya Art a nice horse,but lets be honest,yesterdays run was the best we have seen from him by far. 

Given the number of quality well bred horses in their stable they do tend to bat below average or at least their potential.  With regard to Cya Art the only thing you could do in two weeks as a guest of another stable is iron out some niggles.  Perhaps that and a change in environment is all it takes.

Again a comparison in Thoroughbred Racing is the recent purchase of Midnight Blue by Te Akau a 7yr old gelded galloper.  In 3 weeks they believe they can be competitive in a couple of $500k Cup Races.

Midnight Blue worked at Caulfield on Tuesday morning.

“He’s an interesting horse… we just felt sometimes those older horses a change of environment,” Walker said.

“He came in really good order but with Cranbourne’s facilities being second to none and maybe just working him out the back in the sand dunes track and the hill might be something he needs to reignite him."

[Chief Stipe]

6 hours ago, the galah said:

weren't his comments about the haters really an unwitting acknowledgement that he lets others opinions get to him.

I don't think it was an "unwitting acknowledgement" - it was an honest expression of the effect it has.

The baseless inferences and innunedo, the open hate, the accusations, the constant criticism and constant scrutiny gets to all of those who bear the brunt of the tall poppy syndrome.  The Purdons, the Dunn's, Te Akau in the thoroughbreds - it affects them all.  By comparison the Thorougubred industry in Victoria and NSW seems to be above all that.

[the galah]

40 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I don't think it was an "unwitting acknowledgement" - it was an honest expression of the effect it has.

The baseless inferences and innunedo, the open hate, the accusations, the constant criticism and constant scrutiny gets to all of those who bear the brunt of the tall poppy syndrome.  The Purdons, the Dunn's, Te Akau in the thoroughbreds - it affects them all.  By comparison the Thorougubred industry in Victoria and NSW seems to be above all that.

I think it was both.

As you put it..an honest expression of the effect it has  and as i put it an... unwitting acknowledgement that he lets others opinions get to him.

as you say..Constant scrutiny may well effect all of those who bear the brunt.

But this is the racing industry and the reality is that is part of it.Its always going to be there,so it is something for which some people have to develop an effective coping strategy.

Personally i think openly making statements that shows the negative comments are getting to you is a sign your not handling the stress that well.Thats my impression of mr grimson.

Anyway,when you see a pattern of seeing horses go from a good stable,to another stable and they all improve,its just natural for observers to ask how does that happen? The reverse also applies.

I'm not saying everyone has the same talent,expertise,availability of top facilities and i realise some trainers constantly deal with horses that have high ability.

I'm sure training ability is a major factor in mr grimsons success,but people naturally ask is that all. 

The thing that i never get is that asking that is seen as a taboo subject,that only the so called haters and doubters,as mr grimson categorises them,actually ask. All we get from the media is comments that completely ignore the subject.

like why don't they just ask someone like mr grimson,hey how come you seem to be able to improve the horses you train so much. Then we may actually learn that there is an above board,good reason and that of course would help silence his detractors.

I would go as far to say that the racing media deliberately avoid asking such questions or comment on it.

what does that tell you?

Edited November 14, 2023 by the galah

[holy ravioli]

You never bite the hand that feeds you.The media need to be handled carefully.

To the general public perception is everything.

Take recently retired 'legend' Damien Oliver.His ability is undeniable...but the actions he took which led to his suspension for 10 months were quite unforgiveable.

Had it been a journeyman,they would not have got off so lightly imo.

There is a plethora of evidence regarding the inequity in punishment for 'indescretions' meted out to the mediocre, compared to the 'stars' in the racing industry.

You live the life,you pay the...price.

[the galah]

29 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

You never bite the hand that feeds you.The media need to be handled carefully.

To the general public perception is everything.

Take recently retired 'legend' Damien Oliver.His ability is undeniable...but the actions he took which led to his suspension for 10 months were quite unforgiveable.

Had it been a journeyman,they would not have got off so lightly imo.

There is a plethora of evidence regarding the inequity in punishment for 'indescretions' meted out to the mediocre, compared to the 'stars' in the racing industry.

You live the life,you pay the...price.

I'm a believer that its just natural for people in harness racing to be the same as the rest of society,that they are driven mostly by self interest for themselevs and there families and supporters.. That just natural and nothing wrong with that. But to be a good member of the racing community they need to be overseen by a strong and impartial body with strict penalties for breaches of the rules of fair play and that appearances of possible breaches need to be openly discussed and dealt with.Those doesn't mean there are actual  wrongdoings, just because someone may mistakenly think that.But proper oversight should be able to establish that.

Edited November 14, 2023 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

33 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

You never bite the hand that feeds you.The media need to be handled carefully.

Rubbish.  There are only about two true journalists left in NZ.  The rest are biased opinion piece writers - or muck rucking bottom feeders.

35 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

To the general public perception is everything.

Only if you are shallow minded.  Most of us are more interested in the facts not some biased opinionated representation of them.

37 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

There is a plethora of evidence regarding the inequity in punishment for 'indescretions' meted out to the mediocre, compared to the 'stars' in the racing industry.

You live the life,you pay the...price

 Geez you write some crap but this jingoistic ideological platitudinous waffle takes first prize.

[Chief Stipe]

13 minutes ago, the galah said:

But to be a good member of the racing community they need to be overseen by a strong and impartial body with strict penalties for breaches of the rules of fair play and that appearances of possible breaches need to be openly discussed and dealt with.Those doesn't mean there are actual  wrongdoings, just because someone may mistakenly think that.But proper oversight should be able to establish that.

Where's the evidence?

[the galah]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

Where's the evidence?

Im not saying there is any. I'm just suggesting the media have a role to play in establishing that,through just asking obvious questions..

[Chief Stipe]

I'm picking there is going to be more Media BS being printed soon.  Why would Stuff Crime reporter Anna Leask do a soft fluffy piece on harness training at Woodend Beach?

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, the galah said:

Im not saying there is any. I'm just suggesting the media have a role to play in establishing that,through just asking obvious questions..

What "obvious questions"?  The @Archie Butterfly unfounded mud slinging type questions?  The ones you get your lead on from the headlines.

[holy ravioli]

21 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Rubbish.  There are only about two true journalists left in NZ.  The rest are biased opinion piece writers - or muck rucking bottom feeders.

Only if you are shallow minded.  Most of us are more interested in the facts not some biased opinionated representation of them.

 Geez you write some crap but this jingoistic ideological platitudinous waffle takes first prize.

'.  Most of us are more interested in the facts-you do not seem to demonstrate that imo.

You have dismissed a number of facts that I just presented.

Perception trumps reality...try politics.

Take the example of Damien Oliver I presented...there was widespread dissent about his penalty.

You know little about journos too.It's hard to get a job as a journo these days.

Racing journos are looked on as at  the lowest vocational level,just below ambulance chasers.

They need to cultivate relationships to create content.If they do not toe the line...they are shut out.

You really should try playing the 'ball'....surely you are capable of.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, holy ravioli said:

Racing journos are looked on as at  the lowest vocational level,just below ambulance chasers.

That's an opinion not a fact.

 

2 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

You have dismissed a number of facts that I just presented.

What facts?

3 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

Perception trumps reality...try politics.

Facts always prevail.  

[holy ravioli]

Your  trigger finger is far too itchy.

This is my last comment on this thread,that you are determined to wreck.

-clearly you don't know what 'jingoistic' means.

Also FYI...this site has a sidebar  that counts comments on threads.NO ONE needs to count them!🙄

[Chief Stipe]

8 hours ago, the galah said:

Actually when you think about how much he improved Cya Art in under two weeks

What about the improvement in American Me?

[With A Dream]

15 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Facts always prevail.  

Not for everybody.  Two thirds of Republicans are still dumb enough to believe Trump won the 2020 election 

[Rangatira]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Stuff Crime reporter Anna Leask

Granny unlikely to be impressed.

 

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, With A Dream said:

Not for everybody.  Two thirds of Republicans are still dumb enough to believe Trump won the 2020 election 

That's not a fact.  Equally you could say 75% of Democrats think Biden isn't senile.

[With A Dream]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's not a fact

That’s what the polls say. 

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, With A Dream said:

That’s what the polls say. 

Which are a measure of opinion.  What are the facts supporting electoral fraud?

[With A Dream]

32 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Which are a measure of opinion.  What are the facts supporting electoral fraud?

There aren’t any. That’s my point.  People often believe what they want to believe regardless of the evidence or lack there of. 

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, With A Dream said:

There aren’t any. That’s my point.  People often believe what they want to believe regardless of the evidence or lack there of. 

But there are.  It is an immutable fact that there is electoral fraud in every election.  There have been cases in NZ just as there was fraud in the USA.  The question in the USA is whether or not the fraud was at such a level to have influenced the result.  

[the galah]

5 hours ago, holy ravioli said:

'

Racing journos are looked on as at  the lowest vocational level,just below ambulance chasers.

They need to cultivate relationships to create content.If they do not toe the line...they are shut out.

 

so you've just said racing media toe the line. That they cultivate relationships with the most successful..

well thats what i'm saying as well. 

Only i'm also saying the consequences of that is they appear to value their relationships more than they do the truth sometimes.That then leads to them providing content that their viewers/readers often treat with a high level of scepticism.

 

[the galah]

10 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

What "obvious questions"?  The @Archie Butterfly unfounded mud slinging type questions?  The ones you get your lead on from the headlines.

"the ones i get my lead from".That makes me chuckle.

No i can think for myself.

I sometimes start topics on something he may have written about,not because hes written it,but because i think its topical.So often its just coincidence and i think you will find sometimes the topic was raised first on bit of a yarn.

Also,i'm like others,i start topics and then express opinions which i believe are accurate. So if mr butterfly has been writing about something i don't think accurate,i don't start a topic on it.  So i don't agree with what mr butterfly says sometimes.

From my observations,he sometimes draws inferences from whom people associate with. For example he seems to have a thing about mark jones and iappears to get that from several of mark jones horses being trained and driven by jack trainor. Of course jack trainor is associated with mr grimson,and i guess through that link is somehow tainted in mr butterfly's opinion. While i personally can see where hes coming from,i  don't agree with what he says about jones.I don't think he wrote anything about mark jones when he had an  association with shane tritton,who people thought was dodgy.

Mr butterfly seems selective in who he discusses sometimes. Like if hes going to talk about jones because of the supposed trainor/grimson link,then what about cran dalgety,as after all grimson is staying with him and trainor looks after dalgety"s horses quite a bit. And dalgety also reportedly had a share in a horse trained by the other person in australia generally viewed in the same way as grimson,the tonkins.

The point i make is sometimes links are relevant,then sometimes they are not.it can all get a bit murkey and personally i don't see the point in going there if i don't see the connection in how the new zealand trainers horses actually race here..

And mr butterfly also seems to have a thing about ben hope. Thats a strange one in my opinion and well off the mark but hey,its his opuinion so hes allowed to express it and people should just take it as that. An opinion,not necessarily as fact.

Anyway you promote mr butterfly quite a bit on here. I think hes unique in his own way.

Edited November 15, 2023 by the galah