Mr grimsons after race comments

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, the galah said:

If you look at the USA trainers who used the peformance enahncers.

As an example there was vlear evidence that the leading trainers at yonkers significantly improved there winning records at the exavt same time as they started using performance enhancers.

Post the evidence.

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, the galah said:

Its documented,its a fact.For example one leading trainer at yonkers trained 55 winners in 2014,records show he satrted using in 2015 and trained 174 winners and in 2016 trained 200 winners.

Which trainer?

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, the galah said:

The chief ignores countless examples in history when you say its never a factor.

So i agree with forbury that it will be a factor in the likes of emma stewart and jason grimsons success. 

Where's the evidence?  Are you telling me that all the integrity units in Australia and now NZ are not monitoring them both very closely?  Is Grimson all that successful?  What is his UDR?

[Gammalite]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why pass on your competitive advantage?  It's not a hobby - it's a professional highly competitive sport.  Don't successful companies work hard to protect their IP?

Absolutely the truth of it Chief. You've done a 'Brodster' and are right on the Money with this comment.

I disagree with Mr Galah that Mark would 'pass on' things that help to future generations. All the stables have their own houses and we don't go in the Bedrooms. Hayden Cullen is locked out of some of the houses altogeather now it seems 😉 

The Galah has often mentioned his suspicions with Emma Stewart, Telfers horses deaths , etc ,etc and some 'Others' are always at Marky Boy's throat. Think other Cup winners like Geoff Small were into something too Changeover and that. guess everyone IS Doing Something 

This bloke GRIMSON  always 'looks suspicious' bescause he hasn't made these horses himself. They are ALL well tried. Betterzippit picked up $500,000 winning in a Perth raid this year ? couldn't win a race at Manawatu lol. and the last 2 Interdominion winners too .. 

and SWAYZEE for Grimson, Holy Moly ....when trained by the Nz man Tim Butt who holds the Mile race record , held by MY FIELD MARSHALL, ran for him 8 times Midweek low class races this year (here in laidback old Brisbane) without even running a place. Not even fast enough to race Saturday Metro.?

Grimson starts winning immeadiately mid year when he taes the horse? and now knocking off the best horse since Lazarus in AKUTA in a NZ CUP ??  I Think the world is suspicious now ........😂

[Chief Stipe]

I find it very implausible that the Racing Integrity Units in Australia and New Zealand have not yet detected any PED's.  Even the USA hasn't and they knew in advance what was supposedly being administered i.e. they had reference samples to test against.  Not one PED positive was returned.

Grimson may simply have a good eye for a horse that can be improved.  His UDR is that good.

[Chief Stipe]

You also don't need to improve a horse much to start winning.

5% improvement on 2mins is 1:54.

Take Grimsons latest acquisition - Cya Art.  Won about $100k and 5 races.  Best season was two years ago as a three year old.  Had a touch one racing 22 times.  Fastest time was winning a mile in 1:56.  So proven to be no slug.  Just not quite up to its best form.  Now it has shifted from a large stable to a smaller one it wouldn't be beyond the realms to turn its form around.  

[the galah]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Which trainer?

richard banca. Former leading yonkers harness trainer,now prison inmate.

There are heaps of examples If you look at history.

For example the high profile New York trainer Lou Pena was investigated about 10 years ago.They subpoenaed all the veterinary records of his and owners working with him. They found that on 1,710 occasions horses he had raced, had breached the withholding times with drugs administered.Despite his horses being regularly tested,he had not one return a positive......so much for testing.

As one prominent person said about the most recent investigation,we have learnt there is too much focus on testing. It doesn't catch them.The most important thing these days is having boots on the ground to do the investigative work. We also realise that politics can be a major factor in holding back investigations. Administrators don't want to deal with a big scandal.

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

19 minutes ago, the galah said:

For example the high profile New York trainer Lou Pena was investigated about 10 years ago.They subpoenaed all the veterinary records of his and owners working with him. They found that on 1,710 occasions horses he had raced, had breached the withholding times with drugs administered.Despite his horses being regularly tested,he had not one return a positive......so much for testing.

So even with the source drugs obtained - not one positive to PED's was returned.  Which is what I said.  It is totally implausible that having a sample to test against that no positives were returned.

[Chief Stipe]

49 minutes ago, the galah said:

As one prominent person said about the most recent investigation,we have learnt there is too much focus on testing. It doesn't catch them.The most important thing these days is having boots on the ground to do the investigative work. We also realise that politics can be a major factor in holding back investigations. Administrators don't want to deal with a big scandal.

Which prominent person?  Paying over the top salaries at the neglect of good testing protocols and regimes is bound to fail.

There have been tests available for EPO for nearly 20 years.  The failure to find a positive is a reflection of the inept and fragmented testing regimes in the USA.

The alleged use of pain blockers and bronchodilators are also detectable in a comprehensive testing regime.  If you suggest having people hiding in trees is going to find something then you are dreaming.  The FBI obtained samples in the Fishman case but not one positive was returned.  I suspect in the Grasso/Banca case it wasn't the EPO that was the reason for any alleged performance increase but the pain blockers and bronchodilators.

I'm pretty certain in the Fishman case and possibly Grasso's that what they were selling to trainers was SFA.  Hence Fishman getting done for essentially fraud and mislabelling.

[the galah]

28 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Which prominent person?  

There have been tests available for EPO for nearly 20 years.  The failure to find a positive is a reflection of the inept and fragmented testing regimes in the USA.

The alleged use of pain blockers and bronchodilators are also detectable in a comprehensive testing regime.  If you suggest having people hiding in trees is going to find something then you are dreaming.  The FBI obtained samples in the Fishman case but not one positive was returned.  I suspect in the Grasso/Banca case it wasn't the EPO that was the reason for any alleged performance increase but the pain blockers and bronchodilators.

Apparently it was through monitoring someone employed by the banca stable that authorities gained the evidence to search Banca's property.

When they searched his property they found a list of horses with written instructions on what and how to  administer custom made drug concoctions.oops. 

But back to nz. 

One of the best things about this years cup week has been the nice weather.

Edited November 16, 2023 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

13 minutes ago, the galah said:

When they searched his property they found a list of horses with written instructions on what and how to  administer custom made drug concoctions.oops. 

But even then they could not find a positive - the same with the Fishman case.  The knew for a long time what was allegedly being provided and tested many many times and didn't score one positive.  Fishman like Grasso were more snake-oil salesman than peddling actual drugs.  Many pain blockers and bronchodilators are legitimate or have a period after which they are no longer present (nor effective) - that was probably in the instructions - e.g. "Don't give withing three days of competition".

Banca was charged initially with "mis-labelling" drugs.  He was actually jailed for that one charge of drug adulteration and misbranding!!!!!!  NOT for using.

As I keep pointing out to you repeatedly - Grasso and Fishman were running a snake oil scam plus selling legitimate drugs mislabelled and circumventing FDA rules and other Federal laws.  Nothing that was allegedly sold was unique or novel - they were all bog standard known and tested for drugs.  The biggest crime was the fraud - yes they were running fine lines by avoiding out of compeitition testing and making sure they got their witholding periods correct.  I doubt there were any PED's present during competition.  

So IF the FED's and the Integrity Units are going to do anything it isn't hiding in hedges but increasing the random out of competition testing regimes.

[the galah]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

But even then they could not find a positive - the same with the Fishman case.  The knew for a long time what was allegedly being provided and tested many many times and didn't score one positive.  Fishman like Grasso were more snake-oil salesman than peddling actual drugs.  Many pain blockers and bronchodilators are legitimate or have a period after which they are no longer present (nor effective) - that was probably in the instructions - e.g. "Don't give withing three days of competition".

as far as those new york cases went.

Like i have suggested before,Vets can knowingly be just as dishonest.

There were 7 vets charged in the US horse doping cases.

[Chief Stipe]

57 minutes ago, the galah said:

There were 7 vets charged in the US horse doping cases.

Can we just get one thing right......they weren't DOPING cases nor charges.  They were FRAUD AND MISLABELLING charges.  That's what those who went to jail were convicted with!!!!

[the galah]

16 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Can we just get one thing right......they weren't DOPING cases nor charges.  They were FRAUD AND MISLABELLING charges.  That's what those who went to jail were convicted with!!!!

I have got it right.

FRAUD BY DECEPTION. The deception being they doped the horses..

Every time you say that i post the prosecuting attorney generals press statements and the judges comments given at sentencing,which refer to the systematic doping and mistreating of horses.

When you say fraud,you need to include the rest of the wording of the fraud charges.

Edited November 16, 2023 by the galah