Mr grimsons after race comments

[Chief Stipe]

4 hours ago, the galah said:

Only i'm also saying the consequences of that is they appear to value their relationships more than they do the truth sometimes.That then leads to them providing content that their viewers/readers often treat with a high level of scepticism.

But if the truth they write isn't your truth you class the journo as crap or in someone's pocket.  WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, the galah said:

No i can think for myself.

Really?  Then why do you always post after @Archie Butterfly ?

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, the galah said:

And mr butterfly also seems to have a thing about ben hope. Thats a strange one in my opinion and well off the mark but hey,its his opuinion so hes allowed to express it and people should just take it as that. An opinion,not necessarily as fact.

But you've said @Archie Butterfly is the only true harness journalist!

[Gammalite]

10 hours ago, the galah said:

Im not saying there is any. I'm just suggesting the media have a role to play in establishing that,through just asking obvious questions..

There's no way the media can ask any trainer what their training schedule is. A lot of stuff that happens is secrets within the 4 stable walls. (made that Cullen changing to Telfers very awkward I imagine) can guess why it didn't work out ultimately lol.  

The media I see like the Box Seat this week are incredibly 'polite' . They were just full manners about all the topics they covered. They even get Mick Guiren to come over to Oz and present on our 4 nights of harness coverage we get each year free to Air. guess he'll do a bit of the Interdominion next month. 

Can't see how it would be possible to question driving tactics, talk about whip use , anything controversial is just Not on the open Media agenda. Ethics and all . those guys are great. Very Professional and courteous approach.... like Ryan Phelan does here. 

the Butterfly dude obviously hates harness racing and would destroy it given half a chance. so glad he's not in the mainstream. someone should sue him for defamation surely. 

[the galah]

 

 

35 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

But you've said @Archie Butterfly is the only true harness journalist!

Investigative racing journalist,yes.

[the galah]

47 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

There's no way the media can ask any trainer what their training schedule is. A lot of stuff that happens is secrets within the 4 stable walls. (made that Cullen changing to Telfers very awkward I imagine) can guess why it didn't work out ultimately lol.  

The media I see like the Box Seat this week are incredibly 'polite' . They were just full manners about all the topics they covered. They even get Mick Guiren to come over to Oz and present on our 4 nights of harness coverage we get each year free to Air. guess he'll do a bit of the Interdominion next month. 

Can't see how it would be possible to question driving tactics, talk about whip use , anything controversial is just Not on the open Media agenda. Ethics and all . those guys are great. Very Professional and courteous approach.... like Ryan Phelan does here. 

the Butterfly dude obviously hates harness racing and would destroy it given half a chance. so glad he's not in the mainstream. someone should sue him for defamation surely. 

We will have to disagree on this one gammalite.

I view archie butterfly as a lover of the harness sport and a hater of those who harm it through dishonest activity and cheating.

I also disagree on your view of the journalists.

I think your explanation of what type of questions they can ask and the relationships they have with certain high profile trainers and the lack of transparency that goes with that, is part of the reason many people view those trainers with suspicion.

You mention mick guerin.So he  went on the box seat during covid and had no hesitation in insulting anyone who chose not to be vaccinated by saying they didn't deserve respect and he didn't care what they thought.Yet the same mick guerin can't even ask a qestion as to how someone trains or feeds a horse because he wants to maintain his relationship with them.Now thats a  double standard with a flashing light on top in my book.I like mick guerin in a lot of ways,but i defintely don't think he is a man that can be described as being ethically consistent,as you suggest he is.In my view he is the opposite. And consistency in how people treat others,irrespective of who they are, is something i value myself.

Edited November 15, 2023 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, the galah said:

view archie butterfly as a lover of the harness sport and a hater of those who harm it through dishonest activity and cheating.

Bollocks!  His income relies on selling muck.  Doesn't matter what racing code it is.  I'll say it now he is the one that is dishonest.

[Chief Stipe]

17 minutes ago, the galah said:

Yet the same mick guerin can't even ask a qestion as to how someone trains or feeds a horse because he wants to maintain his relationship with them.

What questions would you ask? List them.  I'll send them to trainers.

[the galah]

 

28 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

What questions would you ask? List them.  I'll send them to trainers.

for mr grimson. I would ask him. You refer to the haters,so obviously you have an awareness of what is said about you.

So for anyone listening to this interview,can you tell me what you focus on as being  the most important aspects of training or feeding or anything else,when you take over the training of a new horse..

from there i would listen to his reply and most likely ask him for more specific information,phrasing it in a way that there are many people involved in the industry who are eager to learn what you view as important so they can improve themselves.

That way i would have given mr grimson the opportunity to sell his credibility to those who may doubt him.

You know not every successful person wants to keep everything secretive and there are some who may well believe that they should in fact be given the opprtunity to explain what makes them successful. 

But of course,we are left to believe no such trainers exist,because journalists feel they may compromise them somehow.

I really do think what i am saying is as much about how the journalists actually view the trainers and because of that perception,they feel a need to protect them from scrutiny.That in itself tells you something.

Edited November 15, 2023 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

So for anyone listening to this interview,can you tell me what you focus on as being  the most important aspects of training or feeding or anything else,when you take over the training of a new horse..

Aside from the fact why would anyone in a competitive industry tell the world what they do to give themselves an edge, the reality is probably most likely very simple.  It's doing a lot of little things to make a horse healthy and happy.  An eye for detail.

Recently I have had the opportunity to see a lot more about how a top NZ stable operates.  I knew they must have had an approach that focussed on detail and innovation but I was astounded to what level it went.

The reality is the majority of trainers in this country just don't get close to that level.  They have a system that they continually improve and every staff member is part of it.

I would say Grimson has an eye for a horse that has issues that can be addressed and which will make incremental improvements.  A 5% improvement overall can make a big difference.

It's a thousand little things that add up. 

When asked most top trainers couldn't explain what it is they see.  Mainly because it isn't one thing. 

I've met a few good trainers and they a closer to horses than humans. 

Also not to forget the good ones work very long hours 7 days a week all year round regardless of the weather.  None of their critics do the same.

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Aside from the fact why would anyone in a competitive industry tell the world what they do to give themselves an edge, the reality is probably most likely very simple.  It's doing a lot of little things to make a horse healthy and happy.  An eye for detail.

Recently I have had the opportunity to see a lot more about how a top NZ stable operates.  I knew they must have had an approach that focussed on detail and innovation but I was astounded to what level it went.

The reality is the majority of trainers in this country just don't get close to that level.  They have a system that they continually improve and every staff member is part of it.

I would say Grimson has an eye for a horse that has issues that can be addressed and which will make incremental improvements.  A 5% improvement overall can make a big difference.

It's a thousand little things that add up. 

When asked most top trainers couldn't explain what it is they see.  Mainly because it isn't one thing. 

I've met a few good trainers and they a closer to horses than humans. 

Also not to forget the good ones work very long hours 7 days a week all year round regardless of the weather.  None of their critics do the same.

So you've proved your capable of answering the questions,but then say you don't think a successful trainer would do that because they would be giving away their competitive edge.

The competitive edge thing as an excuse for not answering basic questions is a load of rubbish in my opinion.

I also think your comment about critics not working as hard as successful trainers is also rubbish.

I think if a half decent journalist went to our best,Mark Purdon and said to him,can i have a sit down interview with you for an hour or two and in it i want to get an insight into  what it is and how you do it, that you think makes you so successful as a horse trainer and driver.I want anyone who wants to,to be able to view this interview.

Then you said to him,no subject will be off the table. Everything from feeding to training to facilities to shoeing to staff to track maintenance to veterinary treatment to other treatments,routine,etc,etc. He would also be asked what value he put on each and so on.

I believe someone like purdon would be quite happy to pass on his tremendous knowledge,knowing that by doing so he is helping and encouraging others to participate and achieve while helping them avoid possible pittfalls.

You see the difference between you, several journalists and me is that i actually think mark purdon is the type of fella who has enough self belief that he has the confidence to pass on his knowledge and would actually gain satisfaction knowing he may be helping others.

So i ask myself,given i'm seen as a critic of him sometimes,why do i view him that way when his supporters don't.

Edited November 15, 2023 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

But you wouldn't actually find any one thing or magic potion that would be satisfy your need for scandal.  The best trainers do a lot of little things exceptionally well 100% of the time.  They also innovate at a macro level (I.e. across all their horses and stable) and refine at a micro level (each individual horse).  With latter how many trainers regularly test their horses blood and adjust feed supplements to compensate for any deficiencies?  Not many because it is expensive and requires a high level of training and expertise to implement.

Two hours at Purdons wouldn't tell you anything.  A month probably wouldn't either but after a month you'd realise that the institutional knowledge he has learnt after 3 generations of horse training is very hard to write into a heavy tome let alone a 800 word essay for the general populous to read.

I even doubt that some of these top trainers could tell you what they do - they have a feel for it.  

Instead of 25 years in the Police Force leaving with a pension the prerequisite for being an RIB employee should be at least 5 years working in a stable from dawn to dusk 7 days a week 365 days a year for very small wages when worked out on an hourly basis.

[Chief Stipe]

7 hours ago, the galah said:

I believe someone like purdon would be quite happy to pass on his tremendous knowledge,knowing that by doing so he is helping and encouraging others to participate and achieve while helping them avoid possible pittfalls.

Why pass on your competitive advantage?  It's not a hobby - it's a professional highly competitive sport.  Don't successful companies work hard to protect their IP?

[Chief Stipe]

7 hours ago, the galah said:

You see the difference between you, several journalists and me is that i actually think mark purdon is the type of fella who has enough self belief that he has the confidence to pass on his knowledge and would actually gain satisfaction knowing he may be helping others

Have you ever worked with horses in a professional stable?  I just don't think you understand that even if Purdon wanted to I doubt he could pass on his innate knowledge.  He'll be doing what ever other top trainer does as well or better but then the next 1-2% is innate to Purdon through decades of working with horses.  Hell he was line bred to be a harness trainer and was probably feeding out as soon as he could walk.

 

[Forbury]

The perspective is Grimson could get mr Darcy from the Kidz karts and win the dominion.every horse he's touched once left his stable is destroyed for all time.when carter came back from his first Aussie trip some of Dalgetys horses jumped out of the ground in particular a Trotter that has never gone that good again.grimson could get racehorse so si bon and win the Doncaster and cox plate with it to put things into perspective.you don't have to look far to see the leading dominant trainers Emma steward race day treatments which were a masking agent then there's mark purdons history and the huge USA drug busts to see what is really going on.no one is that above the rest in training ability full stop.grimson is a very bad image for the sport and it's only a matter of time before he slips up under total scrutiny 

[Chief Stipe]

29 minutes ago, Forbury said:

every horse he's touched once left his stable is destroyed for all time.

Where is the evidence for that?  Aren't you contradicting yourself when on the one hand you say he can take a "busted horse" and get it to win anything and then when it leaves his stable it is "destroyed (busted) for all time"?  Didn't he start with cast-off horses in the first place?

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

But you wouldn't actually find any one thing or magic potion that would be satisfy your need for scandal.  The best trainers do a lot of little things exceptionally well 100% of the time.  They also innovate at a macro level (I.e. across all their horses and stable) and refine at a micro level (each individual horse).  With latter how many trainers regularly test their horses blood and adjust feed supplements to compensate for any deficiencies?  Not many because it is expensive and requires a high level of training and expertise to implement.

Two hours at Purdons wouldn't tell you anything.  A month probably wouldn't either but after a month you'd realise that the institutional knowledge he has learnt after 3 generations of horse training is very hard to write into a heavy tome let alone a 800 word essay for the general populous to read.

I even doubt that some of these top trainers could tell you what they do - they have a feel for it.  

Instead of 25 years in the Police Force leaving with a pension the prerequisite for being an RIB employee should be at least 5 years working in a stable from dawn to dusk 7 days a week 365 days a year for very small wages when worked out on an hourly basis.

So your able to articulate some of the reasons you think the likes of Purdon is so successful,fair enough,but i don't agree with your suggestion that someone like purdon himself couldn't do the same.

Whats with the RIB having to work in a stable for 5 years thing. Thats may be relevant to many of their duties,but so is working for the police relevant when it comes to other parts of their job like reading people and investigative work.

As far as purdon goes,he does have history as far as blue magic goes.Thats a fact.Trainers are always under constant pressure to get the best results for their owners, Thats a fact.  Given he has dealt with that,if anyone knows the pittfalls and how to deal with such things,he would.

When you talk about my need for scandal,i just think thats a bit of a joke that you suggest thats what i want.

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Have you ever worked with horses in a professional stable?  I just don't think you understand that even if Purdon wanted to I doubt he could pass on his innate knowledge.  He'll be doing what ever other top trainer does as well or better but then the next 1-2% is innate to Purdon through decades of working with horses.  Hell he was line bred to be a harness trainer and was probably feeding out as soon as he could walk.

 

You see i have  in a couple. One bloke i worked for went out of his way to pass on his knowlefge to his staff and was a top communicator and was happy to answer questions about anything any stranger would ask him. Then the other bloke was just a snob who i thought you could attribute a lot of his success to his vet. Thats what his stagg also told me. Purdon gives the impression he like the first og the 2 i  mentioned. In fact i would say that most harness trainers are.

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, the galah said:

So your able to articulate some of the reasons you think the likes of Purdon is so successful,fair enough,but i don't agree with your suggestion that someone like purdon himself couldn't do the same.

He does what every other trainer does but is in the top 1% of doing it better.  Just like any trainer he looks at a horse to see how it is and what it needs.  Decades of experience enables him to see things others miss.  

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, the galah said:

Whats with the RIB having to work in a stable for 5 years thing. Thats may be relevant to many of their duties,but so is working for the police relevant when it comes to other parts of their job like reading people and investigative work.

Shouldn't there be a balance? 

[the galah]

47 minutes ago, Forbury said:

The perspective is Grimson could get mr Darcy from the Kidz karts and win the dominion.every horse he's touched once left his stable is destroyed for all time.when carter came back from his first Aussie trip some of Dalgetys horses jumped out of the ground in particular a Trotter that has never gone that good again.grimson could get racehorse so si bon and win the Doncaster and cox plate with it to put things into perspective.you don't have to look far to see the leading dominant trainers Emma steward race day treatments which were a masking agent then there's mark purdons history and the huge USA drug busts to see what is really going on.no one is that above the rest in training ability full stop.grimson is a very bad image for the sport and it's only a matter of time before he slips up under total scrutiny 

If you look at the USA trainers who used the peformance enahncers.

As an example there was vlear evidence that the leading trainers at yonkers significantly improved there winning records at the exavt same time as they started using performance enhancers.

Its documented,its a fact.For example one leading trainer at yonkers trained 55 winners in 2014,records show he satrted using in 2015 and trained 174 winners and in 2016 trained 200 winners. 

The chief ignores countless examples in history when you say its never a factor.

So i agree with forbury that it will be a factor in the likes of emma stewart and jason grimsons success.  

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, the galah said:

As far as purdon goes,he does have history as far as blue magic goes.Thats a fact.Trainers are always under constant pressure to get the best results for their owners, Thats a fact.  Given he has dealt with that,if anyone knows the pittfalls and how to deal with such things,he would.

So?  Blue Magic was 20 years ago - that's a fact.  Purdon wasn't the only one.  Are you suggesting he knows how to cheat?  If so why did he get caught?

[the galah]

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

He does what every other trainer does but is in the top 1% of doing it better.  Just like any trainer he looks at a horse to see how it is and what it needs.  Decades of experience enables him to see things others miss.  

Of course that is the main reason for his success,and of course other trainers like emma stewart and jason grimson are top trainers. No ones arguing they aren't.

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, the galah said:

When you talk about my need for scandal,i just think thats a bit of a joke that you suggest thats what i want.

You are constantly looking for some reason to explain what you believe are exceptional performances.  You constantly riddle your posts with inferences and innuendo without a smidgeon of evidence.  You read the headlines of, in your opinion, the leading investigative racing journalist - the rogue @Archie Butterfly  !!!!   

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, the galah said:

You see i have  in a couple. One bloke i worked for went out of his way to pass on his knowlefge to his staff and was a top communicator and was happy to answer questions about anything any stranger would ask him. Then the other bloke was just a snob who i thought you could attribute a lot of his success to his vet. Thats what his stagg also told me. Purdon gives the impression he like the first og the 2 i  mentioned. In fact i would say that most harness trainers are.

But the sport isn't an easy one to pass on knowledge in.  Some natural horsemen/women learn quickly others never do.

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, the galah said:

Of course that is the main reason for his success,and of course other trainers like emma stewart and jason grimson are top trainers. No ones arguing they aren't.

But some are inferring that they are drug cheats and that's the reason they are top trainers.