A Failed Country.

[Rowley Mile]

I do hope Chief sees his way clear and allows me licence to express my sadness toward New Zealand's attitude to women and breast cancer. NZ is so far behind Australia, and most OECD nations with cancer drugs. This mornings NZ Herald is running anothet story of a Kiwi woman who has been able to prolong her life by using drugs sourced overseas, those same drugs are available here in Oz for 40 bucks a month, but oh no, not in NZ......this vibrant 56 years old lady from Mt Maunganui had to take out a personal loan to fund the 8-10K per month she needs to stay alive, plus the 2800K needed to travel to Malaysia for treatment and the drug.

How abslutely sad, how offensive is that to women and their families, John Key wasted how much on the flag referendum? Jacinda, a staunch socilaist, nada, invisible woman, why? not every Kiwi woman has the means to fund overseas trips to source these drugs......everyday a plane arrives here in Oz with Kiwi's chasing the dream, no, not a dream of riches and wealth,  but a dream of new hope, a dream of spending just a few more years with their loved ones before the dirty bastard called cancer claims them.

Of course during those precious few years there is always the chance a new drug will be found, research being what it is, an evolving science, it is more probable than possible, so hope springs eternal.

The Governments of previous tenure hang your heads in shame, current Government also, how NZ ever thinks it can walk the walk of a first world nation is an aberration, a pipe dream, until it shows compassion toward it's populice, the social welfare system in NZ is that of a failed one, we know a safety net is needed, and in many countries it's never implimented, however NZ should know better, and it doesn't.

The greatest legacy a Government could leave would be the reputation it earned from being a social justice warrior, bringing quality life to the thousands of women who face an agonising future as they battle the cancer war, simply with a stroke of the pen.

Give a litle pages are wonderful, they are the angels with wings, but they also bring shame on the incumbent Governments who sit on their hands and watch women die, needlessly, so, if any of you feel stirred enough to write to your local MP, please do, cancer doesn't discriminate, we are all cantidates, contenders, so hug the one you're with, and get on with it, send that email and become a warrior too, it will make you feel better, and by kori, it just might work.

Rowley Mile.

[Chief Stipe]

OK to post.

One of my friends from away back had breast cancer at a relatively young age.  I was quite close to her during that period in her life which was about 15 years ago.  Even then there were drugs that weren't accessible in NZ that could have helped.

I worked for the MOH for a period of time on a project that was to introduce a screening programme for bowel cancer.  After a lot of money being spent bureaucracy, contractor greed and politics stopped the programme.  What I did learn was the disproportionate amount of money that is spent on women's screening programmes and mens.  Bowel cancer affects men more than women and of cause there are the issues with prostate cancer.  However how much is spent on screening programmes for these cancers? 

[globederby12]

It goes deeper than that Rowley. My wife was diagnosed with beast cancer(mamogram) 6 yrs ago. Two different sorts, herceptin positive( very agressive) and less invasive although just as life threatening , estrogen negative. Treatment as well as a double mastectomy was needed.

The only means available for detection in NZ is a mamogram. Sometimes it's to late, the cancer has spread, by the time a mammogram " sees " the cancer. Thats when the treatment you speak of is needed for secondary. There are other earlier interventions but not here.Some family's have a genetic disposition to pass on cancers, our system here fails them badly in that respect.

Frankly having been through the process, I find we are in the dark ages as far as the type of drugs we use. The cure is worse than the complaint and side effects horrendous in some instances. I would go as far to say that the drug company's are holding us to ransom, along with successive Govts doing nothing . 

 

[Rowley Mile]

There is no will GD!......the Governments are morally corupt, it would be magical to see all the women of NZ unite and withdraw their labour from the workforce, just imagine, the worldwide coverage that would bring? Key was a failure, why? he failed to provide the very best care for all in NZ......your story is a very familiar one GD, we all have wives, Mums, sisters and daughters, I would love to think Jacinda could empathise with the ladies of our world, but she's a failed poly, just like the rest......I wont see in my lifetime a wonderous and expansive NZ, my sister died at 69, my Mum at 70, by today's standards, that's bloody young, but when I walked the wards of our local hospice and saw young women, and I mean young women in the latter stages of their life it sickened me, it made me angry, not only at the failings of our Politicians, but the apathy amongst the general populice.......if the people revolt, it works, by Jesus it works, it worked in Italy in the 70's when the Signora''s went on strike, no cooking, no washing, no sex! until the general strike was ended....24 hours later, wammo, the nation returned to normal......girl power, if ever that analogy needed legs, wow, I would love to think the females in NZ could band together, stand united and bring the Gov screaming and yelling to the table, with Jacinda or without her......knowing the culture, I fear not, but as NZ women secured the right to vote before anyone else on this planet, why not a movement to ease their cancer pain? A few years back we lived very close to Glenn McGrath and his wife Jane, the passing of Jane bought our nation together and Glenn capitilised on the publicity by starting the wonderful McGrath Foundation, it's work is priceless, if only NZ could go the same way,,....if only GD.

 

[globederby12]

I disagree to the Govt being morally corrupt per say.. They are being told what to do by big buisness and It is they who are ultimately corrupt. Greed. 

We now have a large surplus of funds we are told. Good then spend it on your during populace.

A nation is judged on how it looks after the health of its people and it's education system . Ours is going down the gurgler 

[Rowley Mile]

On that we agree!

[curious]

I have a good friend and colleague living with cancer that has recently had to resign from her job and move back to Oz to get the care and treatment she needed. Fortunately she had that option. We raced a horse together a few years back and not a racing person but very much a horse person, she pretty much rescued that horse which we never won a race with, sorted some issues and then she looked after its future life and career once we retired her from racing. She was pretty much assigned to palliative care here and could not even get the diagnostic care that was appropriate here. She has that now and treatment underway that fingers crossed has the cancer on the run with a further back up treatment option if that does not continue.

[barryb]

We have a looming health crisis that is going make the problems of today pale into insignificance. The terrible eating habits of a massive section of the population is a tidal wave coming at the medical profession that successive govts having given lip service too. I am shocked at how many kids whom are 15yrs come for a meal at our house and the only vegetable they have eaten is a potato (sliced and deep fried). Funnily enough due to the high exercise of these kids they are not overweight (yet) but there internal systems must be stuffed already with years of abusive eating. I always chuckle to myself when I hear the parents say they are struggling financially, it no bloody wonder with the amount of money spent on shit.

We are a dumb nation when it comes to personal financial management that’s for sure. There was an article a few days ago about the low take up rate for life insurance and reading through the comments many were citing cost as the reason and that insurers can’t be trusted, both of which are bull shit in most cases. It’s more of she’ll be right and a lack of personal responsibility.

The situation is only going to get worse you describe Rowley as this unhealthy bubble pass through the system consuming time and financial resource, the genuine in need will be asked fend for themselves and fund the rest whom lack accountability 

[Freda]

Agree with the above posters...the mechanisms for funding, however,  obviously differ from country to country,  and interest me particularly.

Pharmac is the agency ,  Govt. funded, which is charged with purchasing drugs in the most cost-effective way possible.  From the material I have read,  do overall a pretty good job - which doesn't negate my suspicions wrt big business generally - and it is also clear,  that it is in the interests of drug companies to keep us all as sick as possible.   Profit and greed,  definitely.

So,  how does Aus manage the system - and is it a federal mechanism,  or operated state-by-state?

When Michael Joseph Savage,  back in 1935,  decreed ' free and available health care for all New Zealanders '  he couldn't have envisaged the plethora of treatments expected now.

Elective surgeries aside,  we have heart,  lung,  kidney transplants,  cataract surgeries, dialysis treatments,  oh, too many to list - and all available. 

In Savage's day,  health care was as much to do with ensuring better sanitation and clean water, dealing with those awful childhood diseases like polio and diphtheria that we don't see anymore,  as offering free surgeries.

And, yes,  Barryb,  personal responsibility has a fair bit to do with our struggling health budget  [ and please,  people,  don't think I am casting aspersions on those who have loved ones - or themselves - struggling with cancers etc ]  .

I have friends who are waiting for joint replacements, people who are comfortably off,  several have insurance,  one is very wealthy,  and all could 'go private'  and just get the surgery they need done.  No problem.  But,  no,  we'll wait and use the public system...because  ' I pay my taxes don't I ?  I'm entitled...'

I have told them all  [ they are probably sick of my opinions ] that if they were in enough pain,  they would just do it as quickly as possible  and stuff the waiting .

An elderly acquaintance has her grandson lodging with her.  He is a haemophiliac,  and has come back from Aus to live with grandma because he can't get treament over there.   Granny pays the St John's ambulance brigade the princely sum of $40  for their service to be available to come and take him to hospital whenever he has a bad bleed.

She complained bitterly to me recently that the got a bill from St John's,  couldn't understand it,  'because I pay for them'  she said.

How much?  I wanted to know,  she told me the sum.  Turns out that the $40 she pays is per annum...

As she also has had a son deported back here - now in goal,  again - I had to bite my tongue to stop giving her a piece of my mind about her 'expectations' of our Govt and society generally.

 

[hesi]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

Agree with the above posters...the mechanisms for funding, however,  obviously differ from country to country,  and interest me particularly.

Pharmac is the agency ,  Govt. funded, which is charged with purchasing drugs in the most cost-effective way possible.  From the material I have read,  do overall a pretty good job - which doesn't negate my suspicions wrt big business generally - and it is also clear,  that it is in the interests of drug companies to keep us all as sick as possible.   Profit and greed,  definitely.

So,  how does Aus manage the system - and is it a federal mechanism,  or operated state-by-state?

When Michael Joseph Savage,  back in 1935,  decreed ' free and available health care for all New Zealanders '  he couldn't have envisaged the plethora of treatments expected now.

Elective surgeries aside,  we have heart,  lung,  kidney transplants,  cataract surgeries, dialysis treatments,  oh, too many to list - and all available. 

In Savage's day,  health care was as much to do with ensuring better sanitation and clean water, dealing with those awful childhood diseases like polio and diphtheria that we don't see anymore,  as offering free surgeries.

And, yes,  Barryb,  personal responsibility has a fair bit to do with our struggling health budget  [ and please,  people,  don't think I am casting aspersions on those who have loved ones - or themselves - struggling with cancers etc ]  .

I have friends who are waiting for joint replacements, people who are comfortably off,  several have insurance,  one is very wealthy,  and all could 'go private'  and just get the surgery they need done.  No problem.  But,  no,  we'll wait and use the public system...because  ' I pay my taxes don't I ?  I'm entitled...'

I have told them all  [ they are probably sick of my opinions ] that if they were in enough pain,  they would just do it as quickly as possible  and stuff the waiting .

An elderly acquaintance has her grandson lodging with her.  He is a haemophiliac,  and has come back from Aus to live with grandma because he can't get treament over there.   Granny pays the St John's ambulance brigade the princely sum of $40  for their service to be available to come and take him to hospital whenever he has a bad bleed.

She complained bitterly to me recently that the got a bill from St John's,  couldn't understand it,  'because I pay for them'  she said.

How much?  I wanted to know,  she told me the sum.  Turns out that the $40 she pays is per annum...

As she also has had a son deported back here - now in goal,  again - I had to bite my tongue to stop giving her a piece of my mind about her 'expectations' of our Govt and society generally.

 

Just a bit of background on this

The large drug companies around the world, and there are surprisingly few, put billions into developing new drugs.  It takes 15-20 years to get a new drug approved, this as a result of the thalidomide disaster back in the 50's

They get patent protection of about 15 years, I think, for a new drug, during which time they charge as much as they can to recoup development costs, but I would think push it as much as possible to maximise profit

Once patent protection finishes, then all the generics come on stream and the price drops by a huge margin.  A good example of this is Panadol(acetaminophen), off patent a long time ago, and now you can buy a generic pack of 20 tabs for 99 cents.

We have recently seen an example in NZ of lack of testing and the issues it caused, with the carte blanche that happened with synthetic cannabis products

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by hesi

[Poisoned Dwarf]

On 19/10/2018 at 9:45 AM, barryb said:

We have a looming health crisis that is going make the problems of today pale into insignificance. The terrible eating habits of a massive section of the population is a tidal wave coming at the medical profession that successive govts having given lip service too. I am shocked at how many kids whom are 15yrs come for a meal at our house and the only vegetable they have eaten is a potato (sliced and deep fried). Funnily enough due to the high exercise of these kids they are not overweight (yet) but there internal systems must be stuffed already with years of abusive eating. I always chuckle to myself when I hear the parents say they are struggling financially, it no bloody wonder with the amount of money spent on shit.

We are a dumb nation when it comes to personal financial management that’s for sure. There was an article a few days ago about the low take up rate for life insurance and reading through the comments many were citing cost as the reason and that insurers can’t be trusted, both of which are bull shit in most cases. It’s more of she’ll be right and a lack of personal responsibility.

The situation is only going to get worse you describe Rowley as this unhealthy bubble pass through the system consuming time and financial resource, the genuine in need will be asked fend for themselves and fund the rest whom lack accountability 

A year ago it was announced that per capita NZ was the world's 3rd highest for OBESITY behind USA and Mexico !

[Freda]

Thanks,  hesi,  yes a bit of balance for sure.

 I would still like to know how drug treatments are so much more affordable across the ditch,  and by what mechanism are they funded?

[Rowley Mile]

8 minutes ago, Freda said:

Thanks,  hesi,  yes a bit of balance for sure.

 I would still like to know how drug treatments are so much more affordable across the ditch,  and by what mechanism are they funded?

I arrived in Oz from NZ in 1973, long before the embrago was enforced on Kiwi's arriving here and claiming benefits. There is a 1% medicare levy placed on all salaries, you can opt out, but then must carry private ins and prove it. Most use the public system. The national budget allocates to each state also, it's not perfect, but hells bells furlongs in front of NZ.....especially phama. The assistance given to cancer sufferers and the national bowel cancer programs are lifesavers....shame NZ shame.....all governments too, you see, Politicians have such lucrative benefits, and bloody pensions that they live in a another universe, until maybe the cancer bstards come calling.....

[Rowley Mile]

Sorry, embargo.

[curious]

3 hours ago, hesi said:

Just a bit of background on this

The large drug companies around the world, and there are surprisingly few, put billions into developing new drugs.  It takes 15-20 years to get a new drug approved, this as a result of the thalidomide disaster back in the 50's

They get patent protection of about 15 years, I think, for a new drug, during which time they charge as much as they can to recoup development costs, but I would think push it as much as possible to maximise profit

Once patent protection finishes, then all the generics come on stream and the price drops by a huge margin.  A good example of this is Panadol(acetaminophen), off patent a long time ago, and now you can buy a generic pack of 20 tabs for 99 cents.

We have recently seen an example in NZ of lack of testing and the issues it caused, with the carte blanche that happened with synthetic cannabis products

 

So what is your point?

[hesi]

Wasn't actually making a point, just adding in a bit of background 

Viagra, next cab off the rank, so watch prices drop

 

[curious]

4 minutes ago, hesi said:

Wasn't actually making a point, just adding in a bit of background 

Viagra, next cab off the rank, so watch prices drop

 

Sound like you are hanging out for it ...one more year though.

[hesi]

That's your buddy, ex channel Liquorice All Sorts

He's always on about soft cocks, you know how the story goes, those that talk about it the most.............

[curious]

Pretty sure it's been available since last year hasn't it and Warren Buffet just expanded his share holding a few months ago. Must think it's going to rise.

[hesi]

This timeline gives an idea of a new drugs road from synthesis to oblivion(when all the generics come in and crash the price)

 

[Freda]

Sorry to cut into your fantasies,  fellas...but back to the topic...Scandinavian countries have a very comprehensive health and welfare system too I believe...but I haven't looked into the funding mechanism there at all.

[Rowley Mile]

35 minutes ago, Freda said:

Sorry to cut into your fantasies,  fellas...but back to the topic...Scandinavian countries have a very comprehensive health and welfare system too I believe...but I haven't looked into the funding mechanism there at all.

Highest tax system in the world! Sweden and Denmark, Norway however has the richest sovereign wealth funds in the world....oil/gas...and their brilliant investments.....it it wasn't so bloody cold, be there in a flash...you know blondes have more fun.

[globederby12]

To give an example of one drug company's ethics, i talked to a lady today who worked for BAYER pharmaceuticals  Their motto.

"Seven pills by 70". if you dont believe they have an agenda to keep us or make us sick you are living in la la. land.

Pharmac works to a budget. In some instances such as Mental health they are still buying 30yr old outdated medications.

As Barry alluded to , we can only see the thin end of the wedge at the moment,the Tsunami,s on its way and personally I fear for my grandkids future health needs in this country. Fortunately we have instilled in our kids ,independence and a need to put funds aside for that day when it arrives. 

It is a great pity we even need to have these discussions.

 

[barryb]

12 hours ago, Rowley Mile said:

Highest tax system in the world! Sweden and Denmark, Norway however has the richest sovereign wealth funds in the world....oil/gas...and their brilliant investments.....it it wasn't so bloody cold, be there in a flash...you know blondes have more fun.

Shame those 3 countries have such crap attitudes toward the environment, raped and pillaged the sea around them.

[barryb]

I am with you Globe on Bayer and the like, but far more of a worry to me and future generations is the silent controlling of us by Google, Facebook, etc. These f—kers manipulating the minds of everyone to often there own religious and personal beliefs, far too much of your personal information is illegally captured and used by these businesses to influence us.