Auckland Racing is a cot case!

[Brodie]

Seriously $15k stake for 4 horse maiden race tonight????????

This is an absolute disgrace when they can only field 4 horses!

The racing is boring,the fields are small and they are a drain on the harness industry coffers,  and they are racing on the same night as Addington?

The writing is on the board surely?

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

Seriously $15k stake for 4 horse maiden race tonight????????

This is an absolute disgrace when they can only field 4 horses!

The racing is boring,the fields are small and they are a drain on the harness industry coffers,  and they are racing on the same night as Addington?

The writing is on the board surely?

There was a Group 1 tonight Brodster and good race .Queen of Hearts  (and backed the winner lol 😋)🍾

the 4 horse field was because there was 4 scratchings in it . just a abnomily mate.

There were some small fields at Addington too ?? . a six, 2 seven horse and 2 eight horse fields...About 90 odd runners . and 2 x big fields of worn out trotters made up about a 1/3 rd of the race- card 😉

Auckland still had 74 runners and was some good racing.  don't lock the gate yet ??😎

You're just a bit biased being in the South 🤣 and must of been enjoying seeing Rachmaninov and Take after Me going around for the umteenth time (in the 100's lol)  getting nothing . 

I quite enjoyed the Auckland trots and gave Addington the flick . (on this occasion)  

[Brodie]

12 hours ago, Gammalite said:

There was a Group 1 tonight Brodster and good race .Queen of Hearts  (and backed the winner lol 😋)🍾

the 4 horse field was because there was 4 scratchings in it . just a abnomily mate.

There were some small fields at Addington too ?? . a six, 2 seven horse and 2 eight horse fields...About 90 odd runners . and 2 x big fields of worn out trotters made up about a 1/3 rd of the race- card 😉

Auckland still had 74 runners and was some good racing.  don't lock the gate yet ??😎

You're just a bit biased being in the South 🤣 and must of been enjoying seeing Rachmaninov and Take after Me going around for the umteenth time (in the 100's lol)  getting nothing . 

I quite enjoyed the Auckland trots and gave Addington the flick . (on this occasion)  

Each to their own Gamma, as they say!

Yes I am totally biased towards Canterbury racing compared tonAuckland and I an sure that the betting turnover will show that most people are nowadays!

Take After Me has done a great job for the connections over many years.

Auckland harness is just plain boring and aint getting any better.

The 2 year old race had 6 starters, 4 were Telfers, and one Herliihy and one Purdon!

There just arent the new participants coming thru at any level!

The punters are leaving, they got no new trainers and next to nonJuniors so no Junior races!

 

[Gammalite]

18 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Each to their own Gamma, as they say!

Yes I am totally biased towards Canterbury racing compared tonAuckland and I an sure that the betting turnover will show that most people are nowadays!

Take After Me has done a great job for the connections over many years.

Auckland harness is just plain boring and aint getting any better.

The 2 year old race had 6 starters, 4 were Telfers, and one Herliihy and one Purdon!

There just arent the new participants coming thru at any level!

The punters are leaving, they got no new trainers and next to nonJuniors so no Junior races!

 

Some good points Brodie . esp New participants are getting harder to find as the costs associated with running a harness horse are high as you mentioned in the past . The Galah has mentioned the lack of training facilities are a major issue going forward. (When Franklin is sold off at Pukekohe what happens with those trainers ? will be not good. ) and yes the lack of Junior driving racing will Not motivate youngsters to 'Have a Go ' and get that competitive edge/nature/ going. like the old boys do at the golf.

Can't agree with your boring racing though, at least thers' a bit of variety there at Auckland compared to all the mile racing here for low class horses week in , week out . 5 days a week . As a great fan of harness racing I even get bored with that and don't watch all of them. you don't know what boring is mate 😁😋 (no actually you do , as have said about constant mile racing previously)

And as a punter far more likely to bet on Nz harness still. especially feature racing with the better horses and drivers participating. If you're getting better odds at the gallops one is more likely to bet there though , as in 'trying to make a quid' , instead of a general little flutter for fun , like you might see at your summer grass track racing.    

[the galah]

Just imagine if auckland were running for the $30,000 minimum stakes like they should be,had they not had the massive loss on the housing project.

Reality is, It was the decision makers back then who ruined harness at alexandra park.

Instead of south island horses looking to come to auckland to earn some decent money,they are better off to stay at home or go to wingatui..Breeders,owners,trainers all have to factor in the $.

Auckland should have been the go to place given the set up they had pre housing development.

Current management have done well to get there where they are today and in a lot of ways they have bought themselves more time,but personally i think they should be using some of that time planning for a move somewhere else so that they can survive for a few more decades.They still would have a lot of money if they sold u wouldn't they?

its got to be somewhere  where  harness racing can become a hub and where current participants can see a realistic future where they can afford to set up and then make a living from..Somewhere where they may have a grass track on one side and an all weather on the other side of their main grandstand.Maybe thats all wishful thinking.Surely they should be at least looking.

Edited December 15, 2023 by the galah

[Taku Umanga]

Sell Alexandra Park, resurrect Avondale with an all-weather track inside the grass track, and race twice a week.  Build some barns for trainers and find some way to increase horse numbers ..... before it's too late!

 

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Taku Umanga said:

Sell Alexandra Park, resurrect Avondale with an all-weather track inside the grass track, and race twice a week.  Build some barns for trainers and find some way to increase horse numbers ..... before it's too late!

 

I like your thinking outside the square,thats what we need,but perhaps avondale wouldn't be ideal.

it was just a couple of months ago they cancelled any future races or trials there due to the track and they had said at one stage the facilities were run down as well.Sounded like avondale has no future as a racetrack.

Wasn't the thorougbred side wanting to sell avondale and get their hands on the cash and the avondale club was fighting that saying they would rather give it away to the community.The avondale club even at one point said next to no one goes to their meetings anyway.Also avondale had been selling off parts of the land just to keep going.

And i remember reading the NZTR(thoroughbred) had said  its only realistic future was to be sold as real estate as it was quite valuable.

I think the key would be setting up somewhere where the price of land wasn't so expensive. Although given the way things are these days,that may be be hard to find,but perhaps you can think of somewhere where the population is smaller.

[With A Dream]

8 hours ago, Taku Umanga said:

with an all-weather track inside the grass track, and

I hate having all weather tracks inside grass tracks,  The horses are too far away from the public.             
 

 

9 hours ago, the galah said:

where they may have a grass track on one side and an all weather on the other side

I think there’s a lot of merit in that idea.  Especially if they developed it in conjunction with Avondale as I think any green field development would quickly soak up the revenue from selling Alexandra Park if they had to develop it all themselves. 

[the galah]

1 hour ago, With A Dream said:

I hate having all weather tracks inside grass tracks,  The horses are too far away from the public.             
 

 

I think there’s a lot of merit in that idea.  Especially if they developed it in conjunction with Avondale as I think any green field development would quickly soak up the revenue from selling Alexandra Park if they had to develop it all themselves. 

I agree with your comments about all weather tracks inside the galloping track beng too far away from the public.Theres a much better atmosphere and easier viewing when the horses and drivers are closer.

I think the idea of having an all weather track and a grass track on either side of a grandstand would have to be a a new development.

Just simply shape the grandstand like a v where you can walk through the ground level and come out at the bottom of either side. They could have the stabling in the middle as well so access tyo each track wasn't far,with parts where the public can just look over a small rail fence and see the horses being geared up and washed down and the public can observe the coming and goings of the drivers and trainers.

If they are to attract people to the races,there best selling point is the horses and the trainers being accessable and easily observed by the public.

Just look at greyhound racing in christchurch.No one goes because the dogs are too far away. And when i say no one,i mean no one. I went one day last year to fill in time. I only stayed one race because i couldn't see them properly,but i was there long enough to realise there was not another person watching. The photographer came out with his zimmer frame every race and took a picture and that was it.2 people in the bar,but neither interested in the dog racing. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by the galah

[Nowornever]

20 hours ago, Taku Umanga said:

Sell Alexandra Park, resurrect Avondale with an all-weather track inside the grass track, and race twice a week.  Build some barns for trainers and find some way to increase horse numbers ..... before it's too late!

 

It might be too late for North Island harness but only chance is set up a grass track just outside Auckland. I might have a bet on a big grass track field but I am with Brodie on the small fields. Hard to get excited about them and not that enjoyable for punting.  

[With A Dream]

12 hours ago, the galah said:

think the idea of having an all weather track and a grass track on either side of a grandstand would have to be a a new development

I think you are right about that.  If Avondale sold their land & Alex Park sold theirs they could jointly develop a racecourse.  It halves the cost for each club & also saves on operating overheads such as rates, insurance, some staffing costs etc.  Also it means the facilities get more use.  The question is where to locate it.  Ideally on the city limits where land is a bit cheaper but not too far away so people will still want to go there. 

[the galah]

On 16/12/2023 at 9:10 PM, the galah said:

I agree with your comments about all weather tracks inside the galloping track beng too far away from the public.Theres a much better atmosphere and easier viewing when the horses and drivers are closer.

I think the idea of having an all weather track and a grass track on either side of a grandstand would have to be a a new development.

Just simply shape the grandstand like a v where you can walk through the ground level and come out at the bottom of either side. They could have the stabling in the middle as well so access tyo each track wasn't far,with parts where the public can just look over a small rail fence and see the horses being geared up and washed down and the public can observe the coming and goings of the drivers and trainers.

If they are to attract people to the races,there best selling point is the horses and the trainers being accessable and easily observed by the public.

Just look at greyhound racing in christchurch.No one goes because the dogs are too far away. And when i say no one,i mean no one. I went one day last year to fill in time. I only stayed one race because i couldn't see them properly,but i was there long enough to realise there was not another person watching. The photographer came out with his zimmer frame every race and took a picture and that was it.2 people in the bar,but neither interested in the dog racing. 

there we go tabmanforever,just one of many ideas posted that you supposedly haven't read.

many have posted a lot of different ideas about what the future should look like for  your beloved auckland. Not just me,lots of the people who post on here have.

like you said in a recent post,no one in charge takes any notice of the keybopard warriors(as you call them).

tabman,rodney,old son,matey,... you say that,then wonder why people don't post as many constructive ideas as they once did. 

Edited Monday at 06:48 AM by the galah

[mikeynz]

Trouble with TAB4EVER is he can't see beyond the Bombay hills, unfortunately like most living in Auckland they are actually looking from the wrong side lol

I'm no fan of Auckland, it is actually in many ways disconnected to what's happening in the rest of the country, with the population diversity creating into that place it's becoming further and further from the NZ that used to be, most of the population there don't give two hoots about Horse racing, Rugby and the likes, while rural NZ still maintain those traditions..

Auckland always strikes me as trying to keep up with other cities like Melbourne or Sydney but they can't even get their shit sorted out lol, it sees itself as the powerbase of NZ but in reality rural NZ is the backbone of NZ, John Key did say where Fonterra goes NZ goes, so true.

Ellerslie have this great big raceday but how many people actually attended? Stuff all for the size of the place.

Alexandra Park must be one he'll of a lonely place most nights, and despite the fact no one gives a shit no more Harness Racing NZ are obsessed with pouring good funds just to keep them going which are disproportionate to what they are earning, Auckland has a sense of entitlement that the country owes them, the rest of the country would be fine without them.

Edited Monday at 08:59 AM by mikeynz

[the galah]

1 hour ago, mikeynz said:

Trouble with TAB4EVER is he can't see beyond the Bombay hills, unfortunately like most living in Auckland they are actually looking from the wrong side lol

I'm no fan of Auckland, it is actually in many ways disconnected to what's happening in the rest of the country, with the population diversity creating into that place it's becoming further and further from the NZ that used to be, most of the population there don't give two hoots about Horse racing, Rugby and the likes, while rural NZ still maintain those traditions..

Auckland always strikes me as trying to keep up with other cities like Melbourne or Sydney but they can't even get their shit sorted out lol, it sees itself as the powerbase of NZ but in reality rural NZ is the backbone of NZ, John Key did say where Fonterra goes NZ goes, so true.

Ellerslie have this great big raceday but how many people actually attended? Stuff all for the size of the place.

Alexandra Park must be one he'll of a lonely place most nights, and despite the fact no one gives a shit no more Harness Racing NZ are obsessed with pouring good funds just to keep them going which are disproportionate to what they are earning, Auckland has a sense of entitlement that the country owes them, the rest of the country would be fine without them.

Interesting thoughts.

Kind of ironic that HRNZ and auckland trotting people seem convinced that theres a link between the significance of the future survival of harness racing and the most populated cities.

Any moron can tell you thats not the case.

the most populated cities in nz are,auckland,christchurch,wellington,hamilton,tauranga and dunedin.

Christchurch is the only populated city where harness racing is still doing ok,but mark my words,i can see all the signs that harness racing is on the decline there as well. 

four of the six most populated cities in nz... wellington,hamilton,tauranga and dunedin..what do they all have in common.

Duh,can those in charge not see a trend,population size has proven to not have been a positive factor,yet they try and convince everyone that swimming against the tide will work for auckland.

Its a bit like this push to get more young people working in the industry.Subsidise them for this,concessions for that..

I would say the whole time i've followed harness racing,i've heard the same thing.

you would think after all these years people would realise what the reasons are that harness racing struggles to retain participation of the younger people once they have worked in the industry for a few years and got a little bit older..

but no,the attitude of the so called clever peoplce ,those who make the policies,is we need to focus on getting more young people.And all the current clever people think their ideas will be better than the ideas of the decades of administrators who  looked for solutions to the same issue.

i'll give another example of dumb as thinking.

A year or so ago i read an article which said 93% of breeders were over 40 years old. It went on to say we need to focus on coming up with a way to increase the 7 %.

Just think about the logic of that type of thinking,because it permeates the whole of the industry.

Your figures show what your key demographic is,and you then interpret those figures to say, well,our focus and resources should be spent on increasing the 7% and not the demographic which make up the  93%.

Just think about that. Itsall so very,very,very dumb.

theres a reason for everything. if you ignore the reasons,then you will always fail. 

 

Edited Monday at 10:15 AM by the galah

[paleface adios]

On 12/15/2023 at 6:15 PM, Brodie said:

Seriously $15k stake for 4 horse maiden race tonight????????

This is an absolute disgrace when they can only field 4 horses!

The racing is boring,the fields are small and they are a drain on the harness industry coffers,  and they are racing on the same night as Addington?

The writing is on the board surely?

Carter love driving  at the park

[Gammalite]

8 hours ago, the galah said:

Kind of ironic that HRNZ and auckland trotting people seem convinced that theres a link between the significance of the future survival of harness racing and the most populated cities.

Any moron can tell you thats not the case.

That is because of the the obvious reason that you need a 'Catchment ' of participants (in any sport actually)  in a certain area to sustain the sport . And around a big city is the obvious place to do it . A catchment allows you to have a regular Base of racegoers to form fields of races. People like to live close to major centres in general. 

I realise the South Island has the Participants spread from one end to the other (like Victoria) which is nice and allows meetings to be held in Many many places still.  BUT most catchments don't , like QLD, WA, NSW,  and the North Island NZ of course where the training and racing are concentrated in just one or 2 areas. just the way it is. 

Brodie , Mikey and several on this thread/ and harness Site's often just 'Hammer North Island trotting' at any opportunity. so it's not even popular from the Sport's OWN FAN base? . with any ideas to save it. That is the Saddest Bit. Fan's that hate the Sport Lol 🤣 oxymoron of the highest order.

It's DEAD in the water with that attitude , and No one saving it. (Dean Shannon almost propping it on it's death bed recent years or 2. )  May you get MANY more winners next year or 2 until it (the Sport)  dies Dean !! bless you for trying. 

 

8 hours ago, the galah said:

Its a bit like this push to get more young people working in the industry.Subsidise them for this,concessions for that..

I would say the whole time i've followed harness racing,i've heard the same thing.

you would think after all these years people would realise what the reasons are that harness racing struggles to retain participation of the younger people once they have worked in the industry for a few years and got a little bit older..

The critical factor why harness racing is Failing (all over really) The next generation hasn't come through. 

Young people who have parents that were involved in the industry as a family tradition , have other things to do rather than the 7 day week job that is harness racing for just a modest return. young people WITHOUT family involvement barely get a look -in. wouldn't get a drive to keep interested. Tony Cameron gets a go .one of the only ones? 

Often you see people crying on these forums about the size of the fields racing all the time . It's not the horses fault , or clubs, or owners... it's the horse worker participants unfortunately 🙄. they don't want to do it anymore.

even in the South , the greatest of them all Mark Purdon, had 2 sons who don't want to drive races , and are young . A sure fire sign how things changed in/with  the next generation coming through.

In the North it's tragic only the BUTCHER family kept the family tradition going. No young descendants of Barry, Les, and Sandy Purdon seem to be around, the young Herlihy are overseas, Peter Wolfenden 2 boys gone, no McKendry's, no Charlie Hunter descendants? Mango's ? no nothing. It's all over mate . Over and finished.

Harris, Brosnan, Lilley, Newberry, and their sons all gone to Aus long ago. (to the Sunshine)  

Auckland has that many old drivers going around it's embarrassing. old man Mitchell,David Butcher,Ferguson who should have handed the reins to the next gen ?  . you don't see that in Australia. Fields are FULL of the younger 20 and 30 somethings age drivers. In all the states driving in all the races. we had juniors winning the Interdominion.

The Next generation has FAILED you . (except good old mate Bernie who supplied young Crystal , almost holding the fort on her own for the young gen in the North) . (Monika and Emily and Harrison trying hard too )  BUT They will Not Save the Day. Where's Doomed ?  when you need him 😅 he could step in here like the old bloke on 'Dad's Army' TV. 😂

 

 

[mikeynz]

4 hours ago, Gammalite said:

That is because of the the obvious reason that you need a 'Catchment ' of participants (in any sport actually)  in a certain area to sustain the sport . And around a big city is the obvious place to do it . A catchment allows you to have a regular Base of racegoers to form fields of races. People like to live close to major centres in general. 

I realise the South Island has the Participants spread from one end to the other (like Victoria) which is nice and allows meetings to be held in Many many places still.  BUT most catchments don't , like QLD, WA, NSW,  and the North Island NZ of course where the training and racing are concentrated in just one or 2 areas. just the way it is. 

Brodie , Mikey and several on this thread/ and harness Site's often just 'Hammer North Island trotting' at any opportunity. so it's not even popular from the Sport's OWN FAN base? . with any ideas to save it. That is the Saddest Bit. Fan's that hate the Sport Lol 🤣 oxymoron of the highest order.

It's DEAD in the water with that attitude , and No one saving it. (Dean Shannon almost propping it on it's death bed recent years or 2. )  May you get MANY more winners next year or 2 until it (the Sport)  dies Dean !! bless you for trying. 

 

The critical factor why harness racing is Failing (all over really) The next generation hasn't come through. 

Young people who have parents that were involved in the industry as a family tradition , have other things to do rather than the 7 day week job that is harness racing for just a modest return. young people WITHOUT family involvement barely get a look -in. wouldn't get a drive to keep interested. Tony Cameron gets a go .one of the only ones? 

Often you see people crying on these forums about the size of the fields racing all the time . It's not the horses fault , or clubs, or owners... it's the horse worker participants unfortunately 🙄. they don't want to do it anymore.

even in the South , the greatest of them all Mark Purdon, had 2 sons who don't want to drive races , and are young . A sure fire sign how things changed in/with  the next generation coming through.

In the North it's tragic only the BUTCHER family kept the family tradition going. No young descendants of Barry, Les, and Sandy Purdon seem to be around, the young Herlihy are overseas, Peter Wolfenden 2 boys gone, no McKendry's, no Charlie Hunter descendants? Mango's ? no nothing. It's all over mate . Over and finished.

Harris, Brosnan, Lilley, Newberry, and their sons all gone to Aus long ago. (to the Sunshine)  

Auckland has that many old drivers going around it's embarrassing. old man Mitchell,David Butcher,Ferguson who should have handed the reins to the next gen ?  . you don't see that in Australia. Fields are FULL of the younger 20 and 30 somethings age drivers. In all the states driving in all the races. we had juniors winning the Interdominion.

The Next generation has FAILED you . (except good old mate Bernie who supplied young Crystal , almost holding the fort on her own for the young gen in the North) . (Monika and Emily and Harrison trying hard too )  BUT They will Not Save the Day. Where's Doomed ?  when you need him 😅 he could step in here like the old bloke on 'Dad's Army' TV. 😂

 

 

Gamma sometimes you have to realise that it is in our  DNA for those outside Auckland to kick back just to balance the ledger, think of it like rivalry you have with state of origin or NSW v Victoria, life would be even more boring without it.

[the galah]

5 hours ago, Gammalite said:

That is because of the the obvious reason that you need a 'Catchment ' of participants (in any sport actually)  in a certain area to sustain the sport . And around a big city is the obvious place to do it . A catchment allows you to have a regular Base of racegoers to form fields of races. People like to live close to major centres in general. 

 

 

 

So hows that playing out for auckland harness racing?

If you were to look a graph showing the increasing population growth over recent times in auckland and then look at a graph showing the declining number,within the auckland region, of racegoers,owners(thats not counting people like someone in a syndicate who owns a 2% share),trainers,breeders,etc you would see that the rate of increase in auckland population has similarities to the rate of decline in auckland harness.

Is aucklands population growth the sole reason,obviously no,but is it a factor,very obviously yes.

Urban sprawl,significantly increasing land values which have devoured areas once used for the training of harness racehorses and the caring of harness horses not being raced(e.g.bred/grazed) which has lead to it just being impractical,costly,time consuming to commute,etc. Put simply,its no longer practical for anyone to invest a million $ in a property just so they can pursue a hobby of training 3 horses.Nor can any young person go to a bank and say,give me the million i need to set up as a trainer and that i can show show you my books that show i have 10 horses in training. They would be laughed out of the bank.

The same thing is currently happening in canterbury,just the dumbos haven't cottoned on to the future significance of its impacts on the sport.

I've given my vision for auckland before and canterbury for that matter. Others have too.

reality is,people first have to recognise an issue and its cause before they will take steps to make different plans,thats why you get so many negative comments that you refer to . Just people bashing there head against the wall on social media ,pointing out the obvious in the hope someone in power may change things.Thats not because someone wants someone to fial or an industry to fail,its the exact opposite but people just don't get that ,for some reason.

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, mikeynz said:

Gamma sometimes you have to realise that it is in our  DNA for those outside Auckland to kick back just to balance the ledger, think of it like rivalry you have with state of origin or NSW v Victoria, life would be even more boring without it.

Used to be a big thing. I started out Auckland for a few years and was so MEGA Impressed with the South Island I can't tell you enough. They won all the Great Northern Derbies for that 6 years , All the feature trots , most of the Auckland Cups . they were some sort of harness Supermen / Super horses from a SI harness Utopia in a lot of opinion.  Gammalite turned up twice at Auckland in that time and you JUSt Knew , there was an even Bigger better Utopia in another location to explore , after he smashed out the AKLD Cup and Interdominion wins at Alex Park. 

some things scar you for Life ? 🤣😅

We had Delightful Lady and also the great Roy and Barry Purdon fighting back to hold them ( Smolenski, Derek Jones and other champions from the South)  out for a few wins. 

What a great rivalry Mikey !! hope it continued for many years. Think it's dead in the water too now though. 

 

44 minutes ago, the galah said:

So hows that playing out for auckland harness racing?

If you were to look a graph showing the increasing population growth

Well no Matter HOW Big the population is , you need the traditional families of any sport to Hand it on to the next generation to keep Participation levels up in that Sport.

Auckland area has failed at this in Harness . closing Franklin making it worse. Steven Reid moved out now. BTW forgot to add we have Tim Butt (Lyell Creek and 5 Hunter Cups man)  and son Riley Butt here in Brissie too. Preparing a team of VERY average horses. Couldn't even get SWAYZEE going/winning just quietly 🤔  ) maybe they should of set up at Auckland instead ? instead of moving here from Menangle . To help the training matters/numbers out in that area.

Probably the Real Estate is too expensive there. Kumeu used to have a training/trials  track? .  spose that's all covered with houses now? 

[Taku Umanga]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

Kumeu used to have a training/trials  track? .  spose that's all covered with houses now? 

Kumeu's still there .... but only occasionally utilised by a few local trainers 

[mikeynz]

Only a few years ago Auckland ran the Interdominion and it was a great series but therein lies one of the key issues I highlighted with regards to the handicapping and the obsession of pumping money into young races when the 4yo and over should be the main course, the horses that everyone can relate too, there is just nothing around for them at present, you have the odd ones over in Oz, and that's always happened anyway then you get the next lot who run off handicaps but there is simply no depth at the top level, that's one thing HRNZ need to address moving forward. 4 and 5 horse fields ain't the answer but as I've said before, nice for the owners, grab it while it's on offer.

 

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Gammalite said:

 

Well no Matter HOW Big the population is , you need the traditional families of any sport to Hand it on to the next generation to keep Participation levels up in that Sport.

Auckland area has failed at this in Harness . closing Franklin making it worse. Steven Reid moved out now. BTW forgot to add we have Tim Butt (Lyell Creek and 5 Hunter Cups man)  and son Riley Butt here in Brissie too. Preparing a team of VERY average horses. Couldn't even get SWAYZEE going/winning just quietly 🤔  ) maybe they should of set up at Auckland instead ? instead of moving here from Menangle . To help the training matters/numbers out in that area.

Probably the Real Estate is too expensive there. Kumeu used to have a training/trials  track? .  spose that's all covered with houses now? 

i fully understand what you are saying and totally agree with the thrust of your argument..

about a year ago i started a topic along the same lines in respect of families involved in harness racing from southland. There hasn't been the passing of the torch to the next  generation to the degree you may have expected there either. But of course theres reasons for everything.

I remember working in a stable in southalnd and going to the trials and there were 244 horses that started at the trials. I still have the programme. 244 horses with owners paying the club to start,drivers earning,trainers getting float fees,etc ,etc. Just at the trials. I remember one junior driver i once spoke to said the trainer he worked for had 20 in work but had only had just the one win in the previous 5-6years. That professional trainer didn't line many up and drove most of them,he was not a good driver as he neared retirement,but he still had  20 horses who's owners  paid to have their horses trained.He actually not long after  won a race with a promising horse and then they sold it and became a champion in australia.

At that time dairy farming in southland  was not on any big scale and you would drive around and so many of the farmers had sheep and a racehorse or two,whether they be hobby trainers or just mostly sending them to professional trainers.

Then within 10 years the dairy boom came and so many of the sheep farmers cashed up to corporations or converted to dairying and next thing in the areas where there weresheep and horses,there were none. it was amazing the transformation within such a short space of time and the flow on effects on the harness industry in southland were very significant.Just something outside their control and dairying has had such a huge impact on land prices throughtout the whole of nz,and harness racing has been a casulty of that industry.

As far as generational passing of the batton,often a common denominator is the next generation of children of small time/hobby trainers were the ones to get more involved in a bigger way,so many examples of that,but then their next generation doesn't.

But,given the numbers of hobby/small time trainers is steadily declining and little is being done by HRNZ to incentivise the continued particpation of this group of people,then that will obviously have an impact on the sport in the future.

Theres pathways forward to everything,but first you have to understand how the industry got to where it is ,otherwise you just keep making the same mistakes. 

Edited yesterday at 05:54 AM by the galah

[Gammalite]

4 minutes ago, the galah said:

in respect of families involved in harness racing from southland. There hasn't been the passing of the torch to the next  generation to the degree you may have expected

I see young Tristan Larsen (from Southland) is still with ex-pat Brent Lilley in Victoria . Gets about a winner a week and still learning well. Hope he returns to Southland to boost them this year. Brent and excellent trainer of trotters. Ben Hope spent a few weeks there too a year or so ago. Did it help ? 😉 

2 hours ago, mikeynz said:

with regards to the handicapping and the obsession of pumping money into young races when the 4yo and over should be the main course, the horses that everyone can relate too, there is just nothing around for them at present, you have the odd ones over in Oz

 Spot on Mikey!!!!. The older Open class horses need a start every week or 2nd week.  and should race at nearly twice the prizemoney of the mid-class races to have people keen to get to that OPEN class , to have a go at it.

I just had a look at the Franklin Cup from last month. The first 3 home are just normal nice horses that can only get about 12 starts a year , with the programming available. ?? that's just BS . 

Miki Shan won the race (just his  7th career win ) and  The Big Lebowski and Jolimont filled the placings at about 8 career wins each (that never even used to be Open Class )  very nice progressive horses with Jolimont winning a Golden Gait and a good 7 of his 14 starts last year. But where are the races for them now ? They could become horses people relate to, just as you say. They ALL  beat Better Eclipse in that race,  who is an Auckland Cup winner and has won over $1,000,000. 

we need races for these fine horses!!!  , and a few more will join in and earn some cash , like Kango and that.

In Brissie an old Auckland FFer from racing AKLD in 2018 is still winning these days,  and Northview Hustler WON 10 races last year (with another old beautiful kiwi boy Turn It Up finally not winning anymore , after winning 10 per year himself) Open races put on for them all the time . It's what keeps the game going . 

 

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

I see young Tristan Larsen (from Southland) is still with ex-pat Brent Lilley in Victoria . Gets about a winner a week and still learning well. Hope he returns to Southland to boost them this year. Brent and excellent trainer of trotters. Ben Hope spent a few weeks there too a year or so ago. Did it help ? 😉 

 Spot on Mikey!!!!. The older Open class horses need a start every week or 2nd week.  and should race at nearly twice the prizemoney of the mid-class races to have people keen to get to that OPEN class , to have a go at it.

I just had a look at the Franklin Cup from last month. The first 3 home are just normal nice horses that can only get about 12 starts a year , with the programming available. ?? that's just BS . 

Miki Shan won the race (just his  7th career win ) and  The Big Lebowski and Jolimont filled the placings at about 8 career wins each (that never even used to be Open Class )  very nice progressive horses with Jolimont winning a Golden Gait and a good 7 of his 14 starts last year. But where are the races for them now ? They could become horses people relate to, just as you say. They ALL  beat Better Eclipse in that race,  who is an Auckland Cup winner and has won over $1,000,000. 

we need races for these fine horses!!!  , and a few more will join in and earn some cash , like Kango and that.

In Brissie an old Auckland FFer from racing AKLD in 2018 is still winning these days,  and Northview Hustler WON 10 races last year (with another old beautiful kiwi boy Turn It Up finally not winning anymore , after winning 10 per year himself) Open races put on for them all the time . It's what keeps the game going . 

 

tristan larsen did drive over here just a couple of weeks ago at invercargill.

he was the only one i could think of when i started my thread about a year ago about children of southland trainers.

maybe larsen was just home for a visit.

While i like k larsens training, i'm not a big fan of his driving. He seems to think well ,but horses just don't seem to run for him like they used to. Or he just ends up in the wrong spot..

I did notice what i thought was a significant improvement in his sons tristans driving when he was back. He drove a horse for his dad,ward lamon,who to be fair kirk larsen has done very well training and driving recently. Having said that i thought his son got an extra length or two more than his father would have, out of that horse when he drove it.

I think tristan larsen could make a living here if he came back,but maybe hes happier ,warmer and getting more opportunities in victoria.

Southland racing,in my opinion,needs to revert back to closing down for 3 months over the winter months like it used to. Why,its just too cold and the numbers can't sustain year round races . If they have a horse they want to keep racing,then maybe there should be some type of travel subsidy and accomodation supplement for the travelling caretaker trainer,supplied by hrnz if they were to be sent to somewhere like auckland or canterbury. 

instead of putting all those millions into stakes for the high end,spend it more wisely.

Like,did you see the hunter cup has a stake half what it was last year,and only1/4 of the nz cup,yet its giot the highest quality field of any race in australasia in the last 12 months. what does that tell you?

Edited yesterday at 07:50 AM by the galah

[Gammalite]

11 minutes ago, the galah said:

Like,did you see the hunter cup has a stake half what it was last year,and only1/4 of the nz cup,yet its giot the highest quality field of any race in australasia in the last 12 months. what does that tell you?

Yes I just put the field on the 'We're Low on Cup horses ' thread just now and saw that ? 

It was appalling. I think Victoria is in Financial strife in harness racing and has slashed the prizemoney . The Dullard Cup for trotters used to be a biggy and was only 30k last week 🙄. winner Keayang Chucky a danger for Oscar B this-coming weekend in the Great Southern Star. He only got $17k first prize in a group Cup race last Sat 😫.

 

Tristan Larsen would of got a few Weeks off for Christmas mate. so glad he went home to see family. 

Tristan ran last in the Wedderburn Trotters Cup last Sunday,  but won another trot straight after with JOHN's BOY from Southland. You might know of it ? 2 out of 2 in Oz now,  for Tristan and Trainer Brent  and still owned by his kiwi owners it seems . Hope they go on and get plenty more !! 🏆👍 (it's NZ form very average last year but imagine it had to take on Bucketloads of Williamson's in trots All the time ? 🤣 )