Chief Stipe Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 MEETING NEWS Taupo to Trial 23 January – Cambridge Trials Cancelled A set of trials has been added to Taupo on Tuesday 23 January, while the Cambridge trials scheduled for Tuesday 30 January have been cancelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 All so predictable , such an incredible waste of $$$ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, Huey said: All so predictable , such an incredible waste of $$$ Times 3. No one at Awpuni wanted theirs! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Green Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 It is summer. Surely trials,jumpouts,trackwork and mid-week race meetings during winter make it worth while. Trials use to be cancelled all the time in winter and that doesn't seems to happen so much now Is there enough galloping grass tracks to survive a winter in Cambridge ? Do we have enough tracks to run trials all year round? where do the majority of horses gallops when it's wet at cambridge? surely "the plough" is knee deep mud and unusable. Be interesting to know the local trainers thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 11 minutes ago, Jim Green said: Do we have enough tracks to run trials all year round? We did have. But that said Cambridge has run only two trial days in the last 4 months. 11 minutes ago, Jim Green said: Trials use to be cancelled all the time in winter and that doesn't seems to happen so much now But it's summer. 11 minutes ago, Jim Green said: It is summer. 12 minutes ago, Jim Green said: Is there enough galloping grass tracks to survive a winter in Cambridge ? They seemed to do alright in the past...until they stopped investing in their turf track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Green Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I mean in winter we didn't have so many trial cancellations. Seemed to do alright? My uncle seemed to be in good health then he wasn't. I'd love to hear a local trainers views,i could be swayed either way. I just wonder if Cambridge was doing so well before the all weather why didn't the trainers kick up and stop it from being put in? was it because they weren't given the opportunity or was it because they had no where to gallops their horses in winter and wanted an alternative. I don't know the answer. I'd like to hear more information before writing off the track. I don't think it's the saviour of Nz Racing but I think it could have it's place. They do In the UK for a lesser class of horse and they race every week on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 12 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: MEETING NEWS Taupo to Trial 23 January – Cambridge Trials Cancelled A set of trials has been added to Taupo on Tuesday 23 January, while the Cambridge trials scheduled for Tuesday 30 January have been cancelled. Well Chief have you gathered your facts about why they were moved 7 days early or have you just made it up and put a negative slant on it ,counting on other readers to be swayed by your negative views on the Synthetics. Scroll thru the recent winners at most meetings and you will see that a vast majority of winners have in recent months as part of their summer preps either raced /trialled or both on the Synthetics. My young mates , new to the sport/industry actually enjoy betting on the Synthetics ,fields a little smaller , form holds up and there is more like v like racing. As Racing now mainly a TV Sport/business an on-course experience is less relevant. And when I last looked less than 3% turnover is on-course. Even before they opened there was a very strong negative perception of them .....the early ones I attended I was told by officials/workers ...." I cant believe how good this racing is ,I was told by many naysayers they were disastrous." In NZ we dream our horse is gonna be a Champion ,and grace Group 1 racing on glitzy days and race Cup week etc then on to Melbourne ,Brisbane etc. We don't want to think our horse will be on the Synthetic on mainly Industry days for minimum stakes.A few trainers have told me they have had pushback from Owners when they told their horse racing on the Synthetic. They risk their reputation and income by suggesting. So are guarded. Yet the elite trainers regularly use them with some pretty useful horses. Synthetic tracks in NZ are associated with slow or quite slow horses...we don't want to hear that the majority of horses win either ZERO or ONE win. Personally I've had a few of our synd horses race on them ,most have trialled on them...no issues....even had a couple of wins ,looking forward to them in 2024. Great for winter trackwork so very much needed for future...in the main training centres so cost savings for owners with trucking to trials and trekking to low key races all over NZ. They came free ,maintenance expense still hazy cos early days. So the negaholics toward them are the older keyboard warriors who revere NZ racing from good ole days when many tracks were goat tracks , but the show went on. Weather more extreme now too , so once they settle in and can adapt/react quicker to postponed meetings they will be invaluable. Looking at racing around World , bar Australia , and they still have some sand , dirt,all weather tracks etc most other countries on Trackside dominated by them......DOMINATED......Japan ,Singapore ,Hong Kong, England , France , South Africa , Korea , USA , Saudi , Turkey. Younger and newer punters are growing up on Allweather / Synthetic tracks . Some countries have both. It's a big part of the future....even in NZ. And I see some already criticising the new Ellerslie surface...the odd horse may not like it when too firm but there will be a trial and error period. How will the folk from the good old days react when they see the track being watered shortly before the first race....horror !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 12 hours ago, Jim Green said: I mean in winter we didn't have so many trial cancellations. Seemed to do alright? My uncle seemed to be in good health then he wasn't. I'd love to hear a local trainers views,i could be swayed either way. I just wonder if Cambridge was doing so well before the all weather why didn't the trainers kick up and stop it from being put in? was it because they weren't given the opportunity or was it because they had no where to gallops their horses in winter and wanted an alternative. I don't know the answer. I'd like to hear more information before writing off the track. I don't think it's the saviour of Nz Racing but I think it could have it's place. They do In the UK for a lesser class of horse and they race every week on them. I'm not from Cambridge, so I can't comment on their particular situation. But the Waikato generally doesn't lack for alternative grass tracks. I think their very wet spring conditions were a fairly potent inducement for an all-weather solution as far as trackwork was concerned. I'm not sure if the Chief is being figurative or literal when he refers to 'cracks' under the AWT. I can't find any reference to that. As for trainers' views generally...getting trainers to agree about ANYTHING would require diplomatic skill of international quality. Regarding the UK - again, climatic conditions make the AWT's a real asset when horses - often lower grade, certainly - can be kept in training all year. Also a boon for stable staff as they have much more security of employment as a result. Awapuni, a different situation, I don't think too many locals were overly keen. There seems to be plenty of opportunity to race without needing to utilise their AWT, still plenty of grass tracks available, and local horse population at present not at a peak by any reckoning. Maybe some benefit for training when conditions are very wet. Riccarton - somewhat different. Many were delighted at the thought of no travelling for hours on winter days, home at night in the cold and dark. The consistency of surface for trackwork, also another plus. But those horses needing soft ground for best performance have been considerably disadvantaged, with the attendant reduction in venues locally being part of that. And the drastic alteration of a former fantastic training centre with so many work options which are no longer available, is, IMO, a backward step, the effects of which are still yet to be realised. One training couple, having shifted down from the north, have become so disillusioned that they are now moving back up there. Some trainers are having problems with injuries. One thing strikes me particularly, is the tarmac base, and what seems to my uneducated eye, a very small amount of 'top' on the track. I stand to be corrected on this, but I'm pretty sure the UK models are not constructed in this manner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Green Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Thank you Freda very good feedback. I have also heard that the poly tracks are supposed to be watered everyday Is that happening here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, Jim Green said: Thank you Freda very good feedback. I have also heard that the poly tracks are supposed to be watered everyday Is that happening here? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy connolly Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 8 hours ago, Freda said: One thing strikes me particularly, is the tarmac base, and what seems to my uneducated eye, a very small amount of 'top' on the track. Isn't the asphalt and stone chip the water-proofing membrane? There should be ample Polytrack material on top. What are the majority of trainers views of this track? 8 hours ago, Freda said: And the drastic alteration of a former fantastic training centre with so many work options which are no longer available, is, IMO, a backward step, the effects of which are still yet to be realised. If the CJC were forward thinkers they could've completely rebuilt their main turf track 25 plus years ago and used the big trial grass (which was just inside the course proper) as a temporary track for race meetings etc. The half-arsed attempt they made of rebuilding the last 800/1000 metres has brought about most of Riccarton's current problems. Riccarton is now an on pace, front runners track which is the total opposite to what it was before they fiddled with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 2 hours ago, Jim Green said: Thank you Freda very good feedback. I have also heard that the poly tracks are supposed to be watered everyday Is that happening here? Not according to the manufacturer Martin Collins: Its unique capability of providing consistent going, in even the most extreme temperature variations, makes it a winning choice for racetracks and training tracks all over the world. In fact, Polytrack is used at over 20 racetracks and on 300km of training tracks across the globe. Dust free No irrigation system needed Ready to use straight after installation Wax coated for cushioning Good energy return Adaptable going for different kinds of work Each Polytrack surface is bespoke and designed for the climate and level of use it’s to withstand. But every single mix is manufactured to the same specification, ensuring the material is consistent throughout, for a world-leading racing and training surface that supports optimum performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Green Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Very interesting , I've got 1 up on my source now. Thank you for the education. It would be enlightening to see injury rates from turf tracks wet/dry and the all weather. Has anyone run or walked on 1 themselves? That would be one way to find out If it was hard/soft/shifty etc Frieda's claim about the UK tracks and the Nz being prepared differently is something I would love to look into. Hopefully one-day we get Cambridge trainers honest assessment of the track,which I suppose will be different depending on the trainer and the results they have had. Punting on them seems easier than regular tracks but the horse is the most important part of Racing and if it's a tarmac and hard on horses surely they have got to go? But if they are consistent footing and the horses have less pressure on their legs than running through a well worn turf full of holes in winter they must be a great alternative. I guess time will answer those questions Thankyou all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) Your source may have an argument Jim despite the manufacturer claims. It was reported a few years back that Pakenham had to add irrigation to the management mix for theirs a few years back to reduce the kickback to an acceptable level. Hodge confident Pakenham issues sorted 28 June 2017 by By Brent Zerafa - racing.com Pakenham Racing Club chief executive Michael Hodge is confident the issues that led to the poor performance of the PolyTrack surface at Racing.com Park last Sunday have been rectified following a set of jumpouts at the venue on Wednesday. Hodge was quick to put his hand up and accept that the track didn't race to required standard, with several leading trainers and jockeys voicing their concerns at the significant amount of kick-back that was being thrown up. "There has been a lot of work done to rectify the performance from Sunday and what has been really pleasing from this morning is the industry feedback that I've been getting from jockeys and trainers, in particular jockeys who rode on this surface on Sunday, they've been particularly complimentary, suggesting that there has been a significant turnaround from Sunday," he said. "Today there is less kick-back and the track is performing in the manner which they are accustomed to. "There has been a reduction in the kick-back and the height of the kick-back too." Hodge said the Pakenham Racing Club maintenance team watered the track, which can be affected by dry weather. "There has been some change to maintenance techniques, there has been some irrigation added, it will be a combination of things," he said. "It is very subject to climatic conditions, as a consequence of that, it does only require some minor modifications and we can get things back on track and we now hope all goes well for our next meeting on Sunday week." David Brideoake raced horses at Racing.com Park on Sunday and was complimentary of the surface at the jumpouts on Wednesday morning. Edited January 10 by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 And the recent data from the US makes safety and injury hard to argue on average, though clearly specific individual tracks may have issues. In the Jockey Club Equine Injury Database (EID) for the year 2022, injuries on dirt were 1.44 per 1,000 horse starts. Turf injuries were 0.99 per 1,000. Injuries on synthetic were vastly diminished with 0.41 per 1000. This data shows that synthetic surfaces are 3.5 times safer than dirt and 2.2 times safer than turf.28 Aug 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 1 minute ago, curious said: This data shows that synthetic surfaces are 3.5 times safer than dirt and 2.2 times safer than turf.28 Aug 2023 But what type of synthetic surface? What is the track grooming protocol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 3 hours ago, Jim Green said: Thank you Freda very good feedback. I have also heard that the poly tracks are supposed to be watered everyday Is that happening here? Yes and groomed. The watering is to do with the wax and fibre and is dependent on local conditions. The maintenance work varies with regard to prevailing conditions. My biggest concern about the synthetic track is the day to day maintenance being done and done properly. Plus the cost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 14 minutes ago, curious said: Your source may have an argument Jim despite the manufacturer claims. It was reported a few years back that Pakenham had to add irrigation to the management mix for theirs a few years back to reduce the kickback to an acceptable level. Kickback isn't the only issue connected to watering. It is also inherent in making sure the surface is not to hard as there is a relationship between the water, the wax, the artificial fibre and the sand that creates a cushion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 40 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: But what type of synthetic surface? What is the track grooming protocol? That is the average from a combination of all synthetic surfaces in the US. It is based only on fatal injuries that occur during or within 72 hours of a race. It does not include, for example, non-fatal shear injuries which are mooted to be greater on synthetics, though after many years I'm unaware of any solid evidence of that. Nevertheless, the fatal injury data remains compelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 Just now, curious said: Nevertheless, the fatal injury data remains compelling. But there are a number of variables in play with that metric making bias prevalent and comparison difficult. At the end of the day I'd rather have my horse running on a nice StrathAyr than a Synthetic any day. Particularly one built on top of an Asphalt road. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 When you look at synthetic tracks in Oz....the horses with form on them rarely produce that form..on turf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 36 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: When you look at synthetic tracks in Oz....the horses with form on them rarely produce that form..on turf. Isn't that exactly part of the problem with their potential acceptance? Turf track breeders and stallions don't want them, so knock them or don't support them? That's what happened in the US but the trend is turning there due to the safety factors among other things with Belmont installing one this year and Churchill Downs considering it. Woodbine renewing theirs. recently with great success etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 4 hours ago, billy connolly said: Isn't the asphalt and stone chip the water-proofing membrane? There should be ample Polytrack material on top. What are the majority of trainers views of this track? Just asphalt, Billy, no stone chip that I am aware of. And about six inches of material on top. If the CJC were forward thinkers they could've completely rebuilt their main turf track 25 plus years ago and used the big trial grass (which was just inside the course proper) as a temporary track for race meetings etc. The half-arsed attempt they made of rebuilding the last 800/1000 metres has brought about most of Riccarton's current problems. They did completely rebuild it. All the way round. And from memory, I'm pretty sure the No.1 grass was inside the C.P. The big and small trial grasses were inside that. 4 hours ago, billy connolly said: Riccarton is now an on pace, front runners track which is the total opposite to what it was before they fiddled with it. Yes. I can recall good stayers rocketing home over 1400m, the long run-in and slight uphill pull really told on those short runners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Part of the complete re-build involved a sharply cambered area leading into the steeple fence past the crossing, the one after Cutt's. [ Hazlett's ? ] Caught out one very embarrassed Tane Belsham on the free-wheeling Kalsoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 4 hours ago, billy connolly said: Isn't the asphalt and stone chip the water-proofing membrane? There should be ample Polytrack material on top. What are the majority of trainers views of this track? It's supposed to have an aggregate layer below the asphalt. That's what contains the drainage system. Pretty sure that's what they did at Riccarton. 200mms of the sand/fibre/rubber mix on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.