the galah Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 9 minutes ago, Nowornever said: Incorrect. There is value in the exotic bets if you know how to extract it! thats because the tab bookies do not offload into those pools. Also you have to factor in the levies per $ invested taken out on exoctic bets can be up to 10% higher than those invested on the win totes. I think if you were going to have a punt on a horse the way to do it would be to start with the exoctic ff pools then put your ff win and place on last. Of course you can only get on with a return of x number of dollars potential return before it triggers a notification to the bookies so i had thought a drawback would be it is time consuming as you would have to place many exoctic bets to get to a point where you have a possible large return. But as you say,it is one way to go. All the complications of it all just discourages punter participation at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 12 minutes ago, the galah said: Spending 10 k a week isn't too hard if you follow the horses with all the harness meetings they have. About $150 a race which you could spread over all bet types. If your a serious punter able to win $5000 a month off ff then you should have no problem getting close to your tote spend back or making a profit on the tote as well. I don't think you realise the league that @Brodie operates in. We are talking 7 figure profits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: "Assume" isn't fixing value. Why would they take a risk on the tote if the same value, as you infer, is offered on fixed odds? I agree,you wouldn't ,hence the bookies policies are discouraging people from betting on the tote. So maybe you can see why i have been saying that for over a year now. 7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: That's a technical problem where the various systems for displaying odds are out of sync or at best time delayed. The same happens on the tote. There is technology to fix that but probably not in the bookies advantage to do it. Arguably in value has to be found well before closing time. My point is the closing prices displayed on ff for roughies is not the price you could have bet them at. Its all an illusion. Edited January 20 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 3 minutes ago, the galah said: thats because the tab bookies do not offload into those pools. How do you know they don't? There are two rules that the TAB could be forced to implement. 1. A time limit to lay on the tote and implement real-time updating across ALL platforms. 2. Bet minimums that the TAB must accept. They have these in other wagering jurisdictions. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: I don't think you realise the league that @Brodie operates in. We are talking 7 figure profits. Brodie type punters are the easiest for the TAB to identify and restrict. Putting $1000 - $3000 bets on stands out like dogs balls. Plus if you are making a profit then that comes straight off the bottom line of the fixed odds yield. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see those types of punters are what Entain and all other bookmakers in the world are trying to get off their books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 5 minutes ago, the galah said: I agree,you wouldn't ,hence the bookies policies are discouraging people from betting on the tote. So maybe you can see why i have been saying that for over a year now. But that is the downside of Fixed Odds. They will always be more attractive than the Tote because you can't FIX the price on the Tote. I don't understand how you can do anything to divert people to the Tote other than consistently offer unders on Fixed Odds. Then you'd price yourself out of the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 9 minutes ago, the galah said: My point is the closing prices displayed on ff for roughies is not the price you could have bet them at. Its all an illusion. None of my friends have had problems getting the odds available right up to closing. But they do use smart phones rather than standing behind $1 E/W Granny Arbuckle in the queue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 7 minutes ago, Nowornever said: Brodie type punters are the easiest for the TAB to identify and restrict. Putting $1000 - $3000 bets on stands out like dogs balls. Plus if you are making a profit then that comes straight off the bottom line of the fixed odds yield. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see those types of punters are what Entain and all other bookmakers in the world are trying to get off their books. Yep that's why @Brodie needs to up tech his Lincoln Cadillac and cruise the outlets with some runners. Or have a few runners on course or in agencies waiting for his texts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 2 hours ago, the galah said: Spending 10 k a week isn't too hard if you follow the horses with all the harness meetings they have. About $150 a race which you could spread over all bet types. If your a serious punter able to win $5000 a month off ff then you should have no problem getting close to your tote spend back or making a profit on the tote as well. If you don't want to take that option well the tab can just say,well we gave you an option where we increased your restriction levels and you didn't take it. If you don't want to make your $5,000 or $10,000 or whatever a month then stop your moaning. It may or may not suit you brodie,but there would be a lot who are restricted who it could help. Na it doesn’t go close to be able to work for me! I personally dont wager on many races, concentrate on what I like rather than many races on a card! The TAB are a gambling agency that put the odds up and accept the money from some punters on a horse and yet they wont with others? They only want the good with the good and no winning punters! They have Bookies that set fixed odds and punters should not have to be blackmailed into having to bet tote just so they can have increased limits applied! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Yep that's why @Brodie needs to up tech his Lincoln Cadillac and cruise the outlets with some runners. Or have a few runners on course or in agencies waiting for his texts. Lincoln Cadillac 😂 To be fair there have been some minor improvements recently, including bringing the harness fixed odds out earlier than they used to! My biggest issue is the pathetic low limits that are put on certain punters! The TAB so seriously need to change policy if they want to increase turnover and retain their loyal punters before it is too late! They introduced a $2k win minimum for win bets ONLY??????????! Why isnt it $2k for TOP 2,3,4????? They say they want increased turnover, I will guarantee this will occur if they brought this in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: But that is the downside of Fixed Odds. They will always be more attractive than the Tote because you can't FIX the price on the Tote. I don't understand how you can do anything to divert people to the Tote other than consistently offer unders on Fixed Odds. Then you'd price yourself out of the market. i never said divert peoples spend from ff to the tote. That wouldn't work and i don't come up with suggestions that won't work. What i said was encourage resticted punters to take advantage of the rewards they would get if they spent X amount of $ on the tote.. The reward being allowing those punters to win higher amounts on the ff. The tab covering the cost of the higher risk to their ff book with the levies the tab receive from the higher tote spend. Besides even winning punters have the odd lean run so if the tab implemented my policy,then they would make more money at the same time as increasing turnover. Neither of which they do with their current policies.. Its not a scheme that would appeal to all winning punters ,but i know it would work for many. 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: None of my friends have had problems getting the odds available right up to closing. But they do use smart phones rather than standing behind $1 E/W Granny Arbuckle in the queue. ill take a note of a few roughies prices tomorrow and give you a few examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Brodie said: Lincoln Cadillac 😂 To be fair there have been some minor improvements recently, including bringing the harness fixed odds out earlier than they used to! My biggest issue is the pathetic low limits that are put on certain punters! The TAB so seriously need to change policy if they want to increase turnover and retain their loyal punters before it is too late! They introduced a $2k win minimum for win bets ONLY??????????! Why isnt it $2k for TOP 2,3,4????? They say they want increased turnover, I will guarantee this will occur if they brought this in! I would assume part of the reason the $2k limit isn't available for top 2/3/4 bets is because they can't lay off on the tote, large amounts to limit their losses on those type of bets you mention. The reason being any lay off bets the ff bookies would make on the place tote would be pointless because how a large place bet would greatly influence the place dividend. Edited January 20 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 47 minutes ago, the galah said: What i said was encourage resticted punters to take advantage of the rewards they would get if they spent X amount of $ on the tote.. The reward being allowing those punters to win higher amounts on the ff. Why don't they just offer a rebate on the tote betting I.e. make the price more attractive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 55 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Why don't they just offer a rebate on the tote betting I.e. make the price more attractive. They do. Turn over more than 120K a year on tote and they will give you a rebate on tote betting. The more you turn over the higher the rebate which on top of the profit is a good chunk of change if you are good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I remember reading a study on Hong Kong racing( best practice in the world) years ago where as the number of races went down, the number of $100+ punters per race went up, and more than covered the turnover of more races. In saying that, it’s hard to take in isolation as they follow that up with horse symposiums, punter education and really treat any punter as a client, enticing them to gamble. Less is more sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 As much as Entain think we are, we aren’t Aussies, who have an embedded gene in their DNA to have a punt. Seems like we are being treated like another state of Australia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 22 hours ago, Brodie said: Lincoln Cadillac 😂 Brodster still driving the trusty Oldsmobile 43 A truck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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