Wingman Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 What I like about your response Doomed is that the reader can feel the passion, understand the logic and importantly you do not stoop to making disparaging comments about previous posters. Well done and no if you have experience behind you there is not a prerequisite that unless you have achieved at the highest levels you are unqualified to comment. Most top coaches are/were not that good at the game they coach 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 6 hours ago, nomates said: Because I don't put up with belittling know all twats like yourself . !Wow! ,,,,, I'm sure your not that much of a wall flower that those words alarm you . You can add twats to that list now . So who died and left you Chief ? Methinks you getting over intoxicated by your own exuberance. Interesting you telling people to piss off and get a life from site that welcomes participants different views. Seems you are one of the biggest posters on all available racing sites. Big man or small man with massive chip on shoulder ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 1 hour ago, Doomed said: So only those who have trained a Group 1 winner are entitled to an opinion? You will be quite happy with the way Racing is going at the moment then as it seems to be those Group 1 types that are calling the shots? Millions poured into stakes, but fields down in both quality and quantity. Turnovers down. Attendances down. Several major tracks closed for "maintenance". Racemeetings abandoned on a regular basis part way through the card. Not enough usable tracks left to conduct grass track trials meetings. $50m spent on three white elephants. NZTR so incompetent they are now bypassed by a betting agency when it comes to decision making. A couple of NZ Group 1 winners unable to keep up in an Aussie race that isn't even a Group 1 race. The Group 1 types don't seem to be going too well so far. Perhaps the grass roots types might have something to offer after-all. The problems that plague the NZ industry have been around for decades and this current Administration is trying their best to give the Industry a chance at picking up from it's dire position. After decades of decline there is some hope , and Industry participants see new hope ,its a tall task. The Group 1 types are contributing big time. Breeding better horses that are attractive to overseas market , racing a ton of horses with money earned in outside businesses , syndicating horses to a lot of new owners [ Te Akau alone have bought 50 this year] and a lot of our top horseman are thriving overseas . Earning big money . The much maligned Messara report clearly pinpointed the dire position of our industry , the tracks and the Infrastructure. Please read it ! Not all gospel but it sent a clear message. If Entain fails to resuscitate betting on NZ Racing what happens then. ?.....there will be even more Overseas racing to bet on , many on here prefer Aussie now. There will be certainly more Sport to bet on plus the on-line gaming is growing rapidly and will continue to. So they may have more betting with way less overheads. They won't have to cart their gear up and down NZ and fly staff/accomodate them etc etc. Northern racing may splutter along as some trainers will survive preparing horses to race locally then go to Australia or be sold. The South may survive a while with sweepstake racing for every horse ,maybe sometimes racing for a bag of Kumaras.Maybe they will allow pony races to be TAB races. So little will change except there will be a lot of jobs lost . Racing will most certainly be a TV sport then , if it ain't already. If this post offends please send a real nasty reply with plenty of personal abuse ,I find it tells readers more about you than it does me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 9 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: If this post offends please send a real nasty reply with plenty of personal abuse ,I find it tells readers more about you than it does me. Not really my style TAB. I don't mind your posts. You often put forward an interesting viewpoint. It would be a pretty boring and pointless place if we all had identical opinions and weren't open to listening to others with divergent opinions. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 10 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: The problems that plague the NZ industry have been around for decades and this current Administration is trying their best to give the Industry a chance at picking up from it's dire position. How? Or what exactly? Aside from ENTAIN throwing stakes around and the introduction of even more novelty races what is fundamentally being changed? Seems to me to be the same old same old and we have enough empirical evidence to show that increasing stakes doesn't fix the fundamental issues. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 10 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: The much maligned Messara report clearly pinpointed the dire position of our industry , the tracks and the Infrastructure. Please read it ! Not all gospel but it sent a clear message. So what's changed other than closing down some perfectly good racecourses that were paying their way and are desperately needed to provide relief to the tired so called Metro tracks? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 10 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: If Entain fails to resuscitate betting on NZ Racing what happens then. ? Why is it solely ENTAIN's role? This is where the fundamental disconnect has caused NOTHING to change. If you don't have tracks and horses to race on them how can you increase betting? It isn't ENTAIN's role to provide safe and fair tracks nor is it their role to provide the horses! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Most successful business people surround themselves with quality, talented, committed individuals that not only compliment their business but grow it, they are assets. Unfortunately over the past decades, we have seen the opposite at Petone and now with ENTAIN, Petone was never run as a business, if it was there would have been mayhem and regulatory bodies would have swooped. The insolvency issues and charade aside, surely ENTAIN did their due diligence and forensic super sleuthing before deciding to buy the Titanic and raise it? The seperate issues of ENTAIN not ensuring their product is/was protected by implementing the safety and viability of tracks as a prerequisite, in tandem of course with correct and strategic programming is mind boggling. Root and branch reform was mooted ages back, but the dinosaur Petone is we will need more than a rogue meteor to take this dinosaur out.......sadly it wont happen in my lifetime, the culture is so entrenched .......sadly, sadly. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: How? Or what exactly? Aside from ENTAIN throwing stakes around and the introduction of even more novelty races what is fundamentally being changed? Seems to me to be the same old same old and we have enough empirical evidence to show that increasing stakes doesn't fix the fundamental issues. No the stakes not only issue but at less than 25% return on investment owners were getting despondent. As some one implied it 'dead cat bounce' but it does give some life to peoples dreams...no owners ,no horses . At least give them a chance and maybe hop on and enjoy the ride...it could be your lucky day ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: No the stakes not only issue but at less than 25% return on investment owners were getting despondent. Can you give us the maths for how ENTAIN have increased the ROI for owners across the board? Regardless it doesn't matter a dam what the stakes are if: You can't get a start for your horse in the appropriate grade; The tracks are unsafe i.e. you risk injury to your horse by racing on them; The tracks are not consistent i.e. you don't get a fair run for your horse; You can't get a competent experienced Jockey to ride your horse; Or if you can get a competent experienced Jockey you can't get one to ride at the carded weight! None of those issues are ENTAIN's to fix! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 17 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: No the stakes not only issue but at less than 25% return on investment owners were getting despondent. As some one implied it 'dead cat bounce' but it does give some life to peoples dreams...no owners ,no horses . At least give them a chance and maybe hop on and enjoy the ride...it could be your lucky day ! that be me on DCB, a old union saying... re your 25%.. is that factoring in all the Tax Rebates that certain owners enjoy? ps, as always, 'caveat emptor'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted March 21 Author Share Posted March 21 17 hours ago, Murray Fish said: that be me on DCB, a old union saying... re your 25%.. is that factoring in all the Tax Rebates that certain owners enjoy? ps, as always, 'caveat emptor'. Some owners run their racing under a company...many don't. Those registered for GST would no doubt be under close scrutiny of IRD and profits would need to be factored in to their return if they trading. Not up to date these days but the claims/rebates on breeding stock etc not so generous as previous. To get those 'losses' recognised in past you still had to front up with the money to purchase the stock for breeding potential ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted March 21 Author Share Posted March 21 On 3/20/2024 at 2:05 PM, Chief Stipe said: Can you give us the maths for how ENTAIN have increased the ROI for owners across the board? Regardless it doesn't matter a dam what the stakes are if: You can't get a start for your horse in the appropriate grade; The tracks are unsafe i.e. you risk injury to your horse by racing on them; The tracks are not consistent i.e. you don't get a fair run for your horse; You can't get a competent experienced Jockey to ride your horse; Or if you can get a competent experienced Jockey you can't get one to ride at the carded weight! None of those issues are ENTAIN's to fix! No maths available at this time of night ....attitudes are more important than facts ,it how you accept the facts, its not what happens its how you take it ! But PERCEPTION is reality. Most folk who go into horses are buying a dream , and most go into it with eyes wide open. I the wrong person to research on this as I small time and the cost/losses are manageable......I've always told people not to go into horse ownership unless you could put $50 k in a paper bag and light fire to it and not care about it.Most importantly I avoid the quick sand crowd . But since Entain the positivity has risen considerably. Most stakes have risen and there are far more opportunities to win most of years training costs back with one win ie more races over $50k stakes. 12 months ago the supporting races on Group 1 were worth $50k , now $70, $80, $90k. All group races risen. Some harness stakes miserable with $10k and $12k races common. They still need to rise ...as do the minimum stakes which are still too low....Yes the big races are hard to win ,and overall there are no more races . PLUS training ,and all operating costs are rising . It was very grim and dire ,now there is the hype and the hope ! People are pouring into syndicates or going in to race a horse with mates....a lot of horses available for lease for racing. i believe people who used to take 10% minimum now prefer to take 2% in 5 x horses ,vastly improves the chance for a thrilling win and photo on wall .And these Social Racing syndicates or micro syndicates get many people involved .And the TAB syndicates have 12 x recent purchases to share the experience around. Syndicators have told me that their syndicates are filling faster than ever. The big/rich owners contribute enormously to the overall scene so you can't resent them getting winners. For everyone the Cost of the horse is long forgotten after the thrill of the win ! See you in the winners circle Chief. ps In last 5 yrs my interests have rarely if ever missed out on a run by being balloted.....either Island but I follow a 1 x win horse I bred down south and it often misses out. A lot of Northern horses getting sent South these days and some grades certainly stretched. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 You didn't answer my question regarding ROI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted March 21 Author Share Posted March 21 26 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: You didn't answer my question regarding ROI. Said previously , most folk spend too much time and energy,talking ,thinking and worrying about things they not responsible for. Concentrate on things you are responsible for and can do something about. Some will be earning a higher ROI. Isn't the owners return in Australia, the race land we salivate over , a little under 50% ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 4 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: Said previously , most folk spend too much time and energy,talking ,thinking and worrying about things they not responsible for. Concentrate on things you are responsible for and can do something about. Some will be earning a higher ROI. Isn't the owners return in Australia, the race land we salivate over , a little under 50% ? So you don't know yet on the one hand spruik it as having improved substantially then on the other hand discount it as it isn't something to worry about because you can't change it. Are you applying for Cameron George's job? You seem to meet all the previous criteria. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 On 18/03/2024 at 9:14 PM, Chief Stipe said: There is speculation on another channel that the problem is caused by grass grub. However I thought I read somewhere that the problem was the turf became diseased and became patchy. I do a bit of golf on a sports field. Last spring perfectly smooth surface etc. Now quickly taken over by some weed type grass looks terrible. So it seems turf culture is not that easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: So you don't know yet on the one hand spruik it as having improved substantially then on the other hand discount it as it isn't something to worry about because you can't change it. Are you applying for Cameron George's job? You seem to meet all the previous criteria. You debate too well for me ...especially in matter of Maths ! I said it has improved for many and many now have more hope and the chance to recoup a years training with one win. But as a high % of horses earn very little their maths is still the same . You good at maths+debating and bit of a twister ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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