Chief Stipe Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 5 minutes ago, curious said: That's exactly how I grow my spuds. Pure sand? Hint @curious you can't race on a spud paddock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 8 minutes ago, curious said: That might be the solution. Just scrape the matted turf layer off and race on the sand? Be like beach racing. Call it a hybrid AWT. Reading between the lines it seems they didn't have the right machine equipment until recently. The remedial work they are doing should have been happening from the start. The issue seems to be that the horses hooves don't dig in because of the matted layer of fine roots in the top layer. Which is clear in this core photo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Call it a hybrid AWT. Reading between the lines it seems they didn't have the right machine equipment until recently. The remedial work they are doing should have been happening from the start. The issue seems to be that the horses hooves don't dig in because of the matted layer of fine roots in the top layer. Which is clear in this core photo: Yeahh, the roots for most grasses should be down 3-500mms before using it. Why they raced on it before that was achieved is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Pure sand? Hint @curious you can't race on a spud paddock. Foxton grows grass on pretty much pure sand and that generally races pretty well. Awapuni are reportedly trying to replicate it, though whether you can do that in a swamp remains to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 16 minutes ago, curious said: Foxton grows grass on pretty much pure sand and that generally races pretty well. Awapuni are reportedly trying to replicate it, though whether you can do that in a swamp remains to be seen. But correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm sure you will - borrowed that line from Scooby) my observation of Foxton was that it had built up a decent layer of organic matter in the top layer over many many years. That layer provides a buffer that retains moisture but excess drains through to the sand. You don't have that time with a $55m track that you expect to race on in less than 8 months. Sand has the lowest water and nutrient retention ability of any substrate. Attached is a paper comparing peat vs sand. I understood that StrathAyr had a mix in the top layer but artificial structure in the bottom layer that facilitated drainage. We are putting far too much sand in our tracks in an environment where we have high rainfall variability on a weekly basis thereby increasing the need for expensive irrigation and trying to apply that evenly. pdf-106790-37625.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 I have read and listened to a shit load of waffle leading up to the installation of the new state of the art surface at Ellerslie, then more absolute bullshit up until this point. It is clear that the project is a failure. If I had commissioned such a job on my own property, at my own expense, I would not be singing the praises of anyone involved. In this case at Ellerslie several questions come to mind ... what are the members of the club thinking and doing about it, does a CEO of a racing club that doesn't have a decent facility at their head quarters to race on become a Catering Manager to retain his salary, and when do the replacements for the CEO and Board start? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 4 hours ago, curious said: Yeahh, the roots for most grasses should be down 3-500mms before using it. Why they raced on it before that was achieved is beyond me. So, for an old fashioned soul like me, 3-500mms is more than one foot, in old terminology. That is significant and could not develop in such a short time, I wouldn't think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 The length of the roots aren't the problem. It is the matting creating a sheer plane in the top layer. The grass is well irrigated and fertilised and is quite lush. The horses slip on the green lush grass and can't get their hooves into the top layer of matted roots. In my opinion the sand is the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 As you have walked the track on more than one occasion and have an obvious idea about turf, if you were asked to advise is there a simple solution? From a logical view point adequate consolidation takes time so, that has to be factored in to any plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 New Zealand has a history of screwing up roads, tracks etc. Oh how I would love to sack some of these managerial permanent under achievers screwing things up. After much remedial work it 'sort of' gets things right. That makes this country a difficult and at times very irritating place to live. It is however better than any other alternative country. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 On 13/04/2024 at 7:47 PM, Special Agent said: As you have walked the track on more than one occasion and have an obvious idea about turf, if you were asked to advise is there a simple solution? From a logical view point adequate consolidation takes time so, that has to be factored in to any plan. I have no idea what the customised Strathayr system they put in place at Ellerslie is like. In my opinion the top layer needs a loam/organic matter content to improve its buffer capacity and to allow better turf growth while allowing hooves to actually penetrate the surface. That would work if the underlying drainage system is as per the Strathayr standard. It is going to take a lot of coring and mechanical intervention now to get the top layer right. I'm not sure what grass variety they have used either which might be another factor. I don't really have enough information to offer any more of an informed opinion than that. I was disappointed with what I saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 37 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I was disappointed with what I saw. So are the horses and their connections that have suffered as a result. There's no way I would race one on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lane Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 Trial videos now on LoveRacing website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 https://loveracing.nz/raceinfo/53086/meeting-overview.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 43 minutes ago, curious said: So are the horses and their connections that have suffered as a result. There's no way I would race one on it. Unfortunately if you have a good young horse and you want to chase black type for good stakes you don't have many options. I don't get how coring the ground then filling the cores up with more sand is going to change anything. Do you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Unfortunately if you have a good young horse and you want to chase black type for good stakes you don't have many options. I don't get how coring the ground then filling the cores up with more sand is going to change anything. Do you? No. But I wouldn't want to run one on it for a million if I were lucky enough to have one that good. What would give me more confidence is core samples showing the roots have penetrated a lot further down than the matted zone in the top 100mms. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing [NZTR] and Auckland Thoroughbred Racing [ATR] would like to provide an update on the 'Return to Racing' for Ellerslie Racecourse. Following the Club's abandonment on Wednesday 10 April, all work that was prescribed has now been completed. A set of eight trials were held successfully at Ellerslie Racecourse today [Monday 15 April] giving the Club clearance to return to racing. A number of industry personnel and senior jockeys were in attendance at the trials today to monitor the surface including representatives from; Strathayr, the Racing Integrity Board, NZTR and ATR. The overarching feedback NZTR and ATR received following the trials was positive, with the following comments provided by senior jockeys on the state of the track: "The track felt a lot better – they [ATR] obviously had done a lot of work on it since Wednesday. The horses are getting a good bit of traction and there’s actually a bit of kick back now, which highlights the more traction the horses are getting." - Senior Jockey Warren Kennedy "I noticeably felt more traction and more give in the track. The machinery work and the spreading of sand since last Thursday has certainly seen an improvement.” - Senior Jockey Craig Grylls The first race meeting set to be held back at Ellerslie will be Saturday 20 April 2024. We extend our gratitude to Chris Hay from Elwick Racecourse for his assistance and advice post-abandonment. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact either NZTR or ATR below. Darin Balcombe Chief Operating Officer Darin.Balcombe@nztr.co.nz Craig Baker Executive General Manager-Racing and Operations craigb@ellerslie.co.nz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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