entain tv ads

[the galah]

I saw a couple of times a couple of days ago ,adds on 2 of the mainstream tv channels,from memory tvl 1 and 4.

Only very short adds,promoting bonus back bets of up to $50 if you rback a horse that runs 2nd to 4th ,to win......at perth on saturday.

you have to ask yourself,what value is that advertising to the nz racing industry?

Races at perth run ,which will only start after nz meetings are finished.

Perth,australia,i mean its not nz racing.No bonus back on nz racing. 

Another thing that i have noticed.

Is it just me,or is the message that free to air racing is back,not been promoted in a way  that it should be. Like i haven't even seen anything at the couple of tab's i visit that racing is back on free to air.

 

[Newmarket]

13 hours ago, the galah said:

I saw a couple of times a couple of days ago ,adds on 2 of the mainstream tv channels,from memory tvl 1 and 4.

Only very short adds,promoting bonus back bets of up to $50 if you rback a horse that runs 2nd to 4th ,to win......at perth on saturday.

you have to ask yourself,what value is that advertising to the nz racing industry?

Races at perth run ,which will only start after nz meetings are finished.

Perth,australia,i mean its not nz racing.No bonus back on nz racing. 

Another thing that i have noticed.

Is it just me,or is the message that free to air racing is back,not been promoted in a way  that it should be. Like i haven't even seen anything at the couple of tab's i visit that racing is back on free to air.

 

Bonus back is on first 4 races at Ascot tomorrow, first race 3-50pm

[the galah]

16 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Bonus back is on first 4 races at Ascot tomorrow, first race 3-50pm

I just wonder who the punters they think are watching the tv ads that will be enticed to bet on the perth races?

Also,i've looked at the tab website but i can't see any mention of the first 4 races being bonus back.Its on mainstream tv but not obvious if look at the perth races on their website. 

i find the whole thing a bit strange.

I'm all for tv ads on mainstream tv. They don't seem overly costly. I would imagine given they produce their own clips that entain may be paying roughly no more than $500 for screening of the adds.

They say a 30 second ad on tv 3 in the middle of the news costs about $9,000,so i can't imagine the ads at the timeslots they were using would be much.

But how about use ads that possible customers can relate to and promotes nz racing.

For example why not highlight say blair orange,the postman,will he deliver tonight.  Highlight in say 3 x 15-30 second clips over a 1 hour timeslot the last 400m of his  best placings for the night.Just start off the clip with his horse ringed. Raise the profile of industry participants who people will follow. It would be easy enough for the likes of the dunns as they are always in the same colours.

someone at tracside could put that together in a short time and just play it the same night or next night ,whatever  works for the tv .

All i'm say,just use the tv ads in a way that actully may promote the industry,which would have an impact in attracting future punters spending.

 

Edited April 20 by the galah

[With A Dream]

26 minutes ago, the galah said:

But how about use ads that possible customers can relate to and promotes nz racing.

I like the way you think.  

[the galah]

2 hours ago, With A Dream said:

I like the way you think.  

Thanks. I lkie the way, you like the way i think.

Hrnz are spending $750,000 on bonuses for the owners and breeders of the 2 year old winners..That seems to be doing very little to increase field sizes.

I see montana park got another one of those last nightfrom those small fields they have.

Montana park,who is that,must be pleased entain and hrnz are so generous with money that would seem better spent elsewhere.

Just imagine if they were to  spend half that money running the ads i mentioned. They could do it for a couple of months, just before the bigger carnivals, and it would significantly increase the general publics knowledge of industry participants and horses.

The cost of tv ads has never been cheaper in the right timeslots.They could cut a deal where they run them as the first or last ad break.Produce the content themselves.

If not,what about them trying that on the stuff website.They are always desperate for new advertisers

Whenever i click on the news on stuff,there are these adds that always pop up between the news stories. normally for real estate. All they would have to do is caption them right to gain the attention of the reader. They are what people are looking at these days.It doesn't always have to be clips or headlines related to high achiever. There are many feel good stories in harness racing that don't actually win but people are rooting for.

Its all about spending where you gain the most exposure . Harness racing has the product,its just doesn't get the expsore or is sold to maximise returns.

Edited April 20 by the galah

[TAB For Ever]

4 hours ago, the galah said:

Thanks. I lkie the way, you like the way i think.

Hrnz are spending $750,000 on bonuses for the owners and breeders of the 2 year old winners..That seems to be doing very little to increase field sizes.

I see montana park got another one of those last nightfrom those small fields they have.

Montana park,who is that,must be pleased entain and hrnz are so generous with money that would seem better spent elsewhere.

Just imagine if they were to  spend half that money running the ads i mentioned. They could do it for a couple of months, just before the bigger carnivals, and it would significantly increase the general publics knowledge of industry participants and horses.

The cost of tv ads has never been cheaper in the right timeslots.They could cut a deal where they run them as the first or last ad break.Produce the content themselves.

If not,what about them trying that on the stuff website.They are always desperate for new advertisers

Whenever i click on the news on stuff,there are these adds that always pop up between the news stories. normally for real estate. All they would have to do is caption them right to gain the attention of the reader. They are what people are looking at these days.It doesn't always have to be clips or headlines related to high achiever. There are many feel good stories in harness racing that don't actually win but people are rooting for.

Its all about spending where you gain the most exposure . Harness racing has the product,its just doesn't get the expsore or is sold to maximise returns.

There seems to be a lot of TAB /racing  ads out in the marketplace these days.

And it been stepped up in recent weeks with stuff in mainstream media . Grins/Slot races , . success of NZ horses in Aussie ,the $10mill dollar yearling auction ,racehorse on train etc  Big ads/more stories in NZ Herald etc.Lotto too has had quite a few stories too so folk being reminded of opportunities to gamble.

Unfortunately Horse Racing in NZ ,unlike in Aussie , is no longer part of the Kiwi DNA and many/most in fact hold horse racing in quite low regard and think it dishonest and corrupt .

As for successful owner Montana Ltd , he spends up large at the sales and in recent years has had many top performers incl Montana Belle , Merlin,Cold Chisel and he quinellad last nights 2 yr old race. He enjoys harness in NZ ,and his day job is CEO of Entain !🙂

You probably knew that.

[the galah]

1 hour ago, TAB For Ever said:

There seems to be a lot of TAB /racing  ads out in the marketplace these days.

And it been stepped up in recent weeks with stuff in mainstream media . Grins/Slot races , . success of NZ horses in Aussie ,the $10mill dollar yearling auction ,racehorse on train etc  Big ads/more stories in NZ Herald etc.Lotto too has had quite a few stories too so folk being reminded of opportunities to gamble.

Unfortunately Horse Racing in NZ ,unlike in Aussie , is no longer part of the Kiwi DNA and many/most in fact hold horse racing in quite low regard and think it dishonest and corrupt .

As for successful owner Montana Ltd , he spends up large at the sales and in recent years has had many top performers incl Montana Belle , Merlin,Cold Chisel and he quinellad last nights 2 yr old race. He enjoys harness in NZ ,and his day job is CEO of Entain !🙂

You probably knew that.

I guess the cost of advertising has never been cheaper for some time.

Personally i believe its something that entain should do,but it has to be targeted and marketed properly.

In that vein,i give you an example of where Entain dropped the ball.

Instead of giving $25,000 back to Boys Get Paid last week,they could have spent it on showcasing that nights racing with ads in mainstream media..

$25,000 would have gone a long way. Just imagine them spending that on ads with video clips of the Boys get paid cheering their bets on at the races,winning connections after the races were run,matt cross jumping for joy after he won the $50,000.

It was all there,the excitement harness racing and all racing can generate,but no,entain instead of promoting the sport in that way,chose to give a gift to the BGP.

The BGP would have been better off getting free exposure on mainstream media in a video clip,than being given money.

So much of what happens i can make no sense of,but its not me making the calls.

As to montana being owned by the entain man. Yes i had thought that was the case although i wasn't 100% sure of exactly the level of his connection with  montana ltd. 

My points around that bonus scheme and what hrnz and entain said the goals were. The main one was to increase 2 yo numbers starting.

surely they must have known that never made any sense. Like its as if they were saying people would race their 2 year olds,knowing their 2 yo still weren't going to have anymore chance of winning than they did the year before,because they still had the same ability,bonus or no bonus. It will only be late in the year when that may be a factor,but not for great numbers.

So i'm also making the point that self interest appeared to be significantly behind the decision for those bonuses.Surely its not just me that sees the people who came up with the idea of the bonuses were the ones who are winning the bonuses. Self interest decisions are made in all aspects of peoples lives,but that doesn't make it right. There has to be more depth in the thinking when decisions like that are made,otherwise things will never improve.

Edited April 20 by the galah

[TAB For Ever]

23 hours ago, the galah said:

I guess the cost of advertising has never been cheaper for some time.

Personally i believe its something that entain should do,but it has to be targeted and marketed properly.

In that vein,i give you an example of where Entain dropped the ball.

Instead of giving $25,000 back to Boys Get Paid last week,they could have spent it on showcasing that nights racing with ads in mainstream media..

$25,000 would have gone a long way. Just imagine them spending that on ads with video clips of the Boys get paid cheering their bets on at the races,winning connections after the races were run,matt cross jumping for joy after he won the $50,000.

It was all there,the excitement harness racing and all racing can generate,but no,entain instead of promoting the sport in that way,chose to give a gift to the BGP.

The BGP would have been better off getting free exposure on mainstream media in a video clip,than being given money.

So much of what happens i can make no sense of,but its not me making the calls.

As to montana being owned by the entain man. Yes i had thought that was the case although i wasn't 100% sure of exactly the level of his connection with  montana ltd. 

My points around that bonus scheme and what hrnz and entain said the goals were. The main one was to increase 2 yo numbers starting.

surely they must have known that never made any sense. Like its as if they were saying people would race their 2 year olds,knowing their 2 yo still weren't going to have anymore chance of winning than they did the year before,because they still had the same ability,bonus or no bonus. It will only be late in the year when that may be a factor,but not for great numbers.

So i'm also making the point that self interest appeared to be significantly behind the decision for those bonuses.Surely its not just me that sees the people who came up with the idea of the bonuses were the ones who are winning the bonuses. Self interest decisions are made in all aspects of peoples lives,but that doesn't make it right. There has to be more depth in the thinking when decisions like that are made,otherwise things will never improve.

Dunno if you had experience with outfits / businesses that advertise a lot and are able to work out what works and what doesn't and can differentiate between hard-sell promotions and brand advertising .

My personal experience is that it is easier to increase turnover by getting existing customers to spend more then second would be to reconnect with lapsed customers then well back to getting new / first -time customers. Harder if there is strong well respected competitors eg Lotto in the case of gambling. Also racing wagering for newcomers is quite complicated as well and the reputation not what it once was even tho probably as 'clean' as it ever been. .Plus unlike the Golden Kiwi and Lotto the life changing  wins are less often. 

So the top up /refund to BGP on big Harness night was IMO a good move by TAB....giving a 'warm fuzzy' to up to 5000 account holders was sensible....creates goodwill . I appreciated it and couldn't wait to reinvest my stake the next day ,churned it over a few times then lost the lot !. Unsure what the average spend was on the Harness one but during NZ Cup week last November I believe it was $30 , so a lot of Ma and Pas involved.

BGP stirs up a few 'knockers' , few seemed to complain when the TAB pays out on a horse 'pre-race' and then the horse gets beaten  !

BGP is a 'fun' involvement and note that it now gone into recess for a few months so it a bit pointless advertising their brand on mainstream media. Plus the TAB has plenty of hard sell stuff to advertise...like the Warriors !

Wagering and betting on the NZTAB is crucial for the future of NZ Racing as is Horse Ownership ,and Owners have carried a big burden in recent years with returns about 25% for Owners. Ownership has increased in recent times ,and it had to. Thats why stakes needed a decent boost .It still a very expensive hobby and most haven't the appetite for it. One of the big challenges is the wait from the yearling sales to getting to the races. Can be two years or more. Races for 2 and 3 year olds are often deleted or fillies races thrown in with males etc .A lot of 'sweep stake' races too ,there needs to be. Owners pay again !

Numbers of owners are increasing cos of the many syndicators around but some of the big studs/stables are racing many horses so can't deny them success. Its affordable when only a small share taken.Of course many horses just not ready or mature enough to race as 2 yr old..especially when they running 1.55 MR. 

[the galah]

7 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Dunno if you had experience with outfits / businesses that advertise a lot and are able to work out what works and what doesn't and can differentiate between hard-sell promotions and brand advertising .

My personal experience is that it is easier to increase turnover by getting existing customers to spend more then second would be to reconnect with lapsed customers then well back to getting new / first -time customers. Harder if there is strong well respected competitors eg Lotto in the case of gambling. Also racing wagering for newcomers is quite complicated as well and the reputation not what it once was even tho probably as 'clean' as it ever been. .Plus unlike the Golden Kiwi and Lotto the life changing  wins are less often. 

 

I've had just the one small business experience, that was part of a co-operative.

At one point i did put forward proposals on how the business could market itself and increase customer numbers.I did a lot of research.

Pretty much what my research clearly indicated,is exactly what you have said,so i'm very much on the same page as you in that regard.

The only couple of things thing i would add that i believe are.

If you do decide to use advertising to attract new customers,you should target the advertising at people similar to those that are your existing customers.Then you factor in why word of mouth and providing a product/service that is an enjoyable and efficient experience is most important, as your existing customers are already mixing in the circles of your potential new customers.

I think the same principles applies when considering promoting racehorse ownership.

And that is why i have always considered racing places too much emphasis on young people. Sure plant the seed early,through things like country racing ,but best target them when they are at stages in their life where they have the money to participate in your product.Syndicates is a component that can promote younger participants. And of course BGP a very good example of that.

[Nowornever]

On 20/04/2024 at 2:16 PM, the galah said:

I just wonder who the punters they think are watching the tv ads that will be enticed to bet on the perth races?

You would be amazed how many degenerate gamblers will see that and have a bet on the favourite thinking it is like a free throw at the stumps. I know a couple of guys who would have been all over it. 

Not my cup of tea and I can see your point, but some people love that type of thing

[the galah]

5 hours ago, Nowornever said:

You would be amazed how many degenerate gamblers will see that and have a bet on the favourite thinking it is like a free throw at the stumps. I know a couple of guys who would have been all over it. 

Not my cup of tea and I can see your point, but some people love that type of thing

 

your saying someones going to keep money aside  to bet after seeing an ad on mainstream tv a couple of days before, promoting win bonus bets back if you run 2nd to 4th, at an australian race meeting that starts late in the afternoon, after most of the nz races are over.

Maybe,but surely there can't be too many of those people around.

Also,if they are doing that,they have to be doing it online on their accounts,as it only applies to that,so most would keep that to themselves wouldn't they?

Personally i don't know any punters who have thought like that,but possibly your right as there would be some degenerative punters out there. But,if they are degenerative punters then there would be many opportunities for them to lose their money in the days before the advertised free bonus back bets.

Edited April 22 by the galah

[Brodie]

14 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Dunno if you had experience with outfits / businesses that advertise a lot and are able to work out what works and what doesn't and can differentiate between hard-sell promotions and brand advertising .

My personal experience is that it is easier to increase turnover by getting existing customers to spend more then second would be to reconnect with lapsed customers then well back to getting new / first -time customers. Harder if there is strong well respected competitors eg Lotto in the case of gambling. Also racing wagering for newcomers is quite complicated as well and the reputation not what it once was even tho probably as 'clean' as it ever been. .Plus unlike the Golden Kiwi and Lotto the life changing  wins are less often. 

So the top up /refund to BGP on big Harness night was IMO a good move by TAB....giving a 'warm fuzzy' to up to 5000 account holders was sensible....creates goodwill . I appreciated it and couldn't wait to reinvest my stake the next day ,churned it over a few times then lost the lot !. Unsure what the average spend was on the Harness one but during NZ Cup week last November I believe it was $30 , so a lot of Ma and Pas involved.

BGP stirs up a few 'knockers' , few seemed to complain when the TAB pays out on a horse 'pre-race' and then the horse gets beaten  !

BGP is a 'fun' involvement and note that it now gone into recess for a few months so it a bit pointless advertising their brand on mainstream media. Plus the TAB has plenty of hard sell stuff to advertise...like the Warriors !

Wagering and betting on the NZTAB is crucial for the future of NZ Racing as is Horse Ownership ,and Owners have carried a big burden in recent years with returns about 25% for Owners. Ownership has increased in recent times ,and it had to. Thats why stakes needed a decent boost .It still a very expensive hobby and most haven't the appetite for it. One of the big challenges is the wait from the yearling sales to getting to the races. Can be two years or more. Races for 2 and 3 year olds are often deleted or fillies races thrown in with males etc .A lot of 'sweep stake' races too ,there needs to be. Owners pay again !

Numbers of owners are increasing cos of the many syndicators around but some of the big studs/stables are racing many horses so can't deny them success. Its affordable when only a small share taken.Of course many horses just not ready or mature enough to race as 2 yr old..especially when they running 1.55 MR. 

TAB, You are totally correct when you say that the TAB should be concentrating on getting their existing clients to invest more!

But unfortunately for them , they havent as yet received your memorandum!

They seem to believe that it is in their best interests to piss their existing clients off by trying to get rid of them!! 

As I have stated many times, their business plan is seriously flawed, and their practice of putting yield over turnover is not what they need to be doing! 

You are incorrect when you state that there are knockers of BGP, quite the opposite I would say!

What these so called knockers do not like, is the preferential treatment that they are given by the TAB!

Yes they are good for racing but they should be capable of standing on their own feet and not be given preferential treatment over other paying customers!

 

 

[the galah]

26 minutes ago, Brodie said:

TAB, You are totally correct when you say that the TAB should be concentrating on getting their existing clients to invest more!

But unfortunately for them , they havent as yet received your memorandum!

They seem to believe that it is in their best interests to piss their existing clients off by trying to get rid of them!! 

As I have stated many times, their business plan is seriously flawed, and their practice of putting yield over turnover is not what they need to be doing! 

You are incorrect when you state that there are knockers of BGP, quite the opposite I would say!

What these so called knockers do not like, is the preferential treatment that they are given by the TAB!

Yes they are good for racing but they should be capable of standing on their own feet and not be given preferential treatment over other paying customers!

 

 

Pretty much sums it up.

Tabforever is saying something we agree with in regards to how to increase turnover,and we are saying the customers he describes are people like us and others we know like us. 

Us being,not just punters who win  on ff odds that the tab may not want,but being a cross section of both ff and tote punters who in the big picture, generate much greater money for the industry than they take out of the industry.

So until the tab/entain cotton on to how to use and view them as an asset and not a liabilty,then enatin/tab are on a road that leads to nowhere.

[Rangatira]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

TAB, You are totally correct when you say that the TAB should be concentrating on getting their existing clients to invest more!

Existing losing clients !!#%!!

[Rangatira]

32 minutes ago, the galah said:

So until the tab/entain cotton on to how to use and view them as an asset and not a liabilty,then enatin/tab are on a road that leads to nowhere.

Fixed odds punters that consistently win are a liability and all bookmakers look to limit them. 

They can come across as entitled so not easy finding a solution.

[the galah]

50 minutes ago, Rangatira said:

Fixed odds punters that consistently win are a liability and all bookmakers look to limit them. 

They can come across as entitled so not easy finding a solution.

Where you go wrong is categorising every winning ff punter the same.Just like the tab does.

I won at fixed odds,apparently i had done it month after month for some time.Thats what i was told when i was discussing why i was closing my account.They had rung me to try and persuade me to keep it open.

What the tab bookies failed to take into account is my contribution to tote turnovers and the % the tab was taking from turnover i helped generate. I can guarantee it was far greater than any winnings i had on ff.The elite customer service people could see the big picture,but not the bookies.

Also what they did was put algorithms on accounts which directly meant i was better off placing the bets on ff,instead of the tote.In other words,through their policies i was better off betting on what they didn't want me to bet on.I kid you not.I'm just telling you as it is.

The whole argument that if your a winning fixed odds punter,then your automatically classified as a liabilty ,that argument is flawed.

But for some reason,people just don't seem to get that.

Then of course the tab never factor in other things of relevance. e.g. contribution as owners/breeders/sponsors,etc that winning punters may put their profits towards.

Also how about the tab/entain look at themselves in the mirror.

Why can't they do what capable bookmakers do,that is create a balanced book that will see them making a profit whatever the outcome of an event.

Edited April 22 by the galah

[Rangatira]

3 minutes ago, the galah said:

Where you go wrong is 

I was actually just doing some recreational fishing when I said that

[Brodie]

Great to see the new Government overturning so many things that the previous losers introduced.

They have done so many things that are positive for NZ, whereas I can not think of a single thing that Liebour did that was successful in the 6 years that they manipulated NZ?

Great to see that the Govt. Is reducing staff no.s at the Department of Internal Affairs that administer the crazy Anti Money Laundering Bill!

Hopefully the TAB will be forced to follow the actual law of the NZ Anti Money Laundering Act as the limit is not $1,000!!!!!
Who in their wildest dreams believes that people are money laundering punting on to win only $1k?

Not sure who was the clown that wanted the $1k limit as it is not what is required by the Act, and is a waste of time and costing the TAB and racing industry financially big time.

Rather than altering the graphics on Trackside and saying how it was so great, how about the CEO spend some time actually finding out why they are breaking the rules of the  AML ACT??

But then the $1k has nothing to do with money laundering, it is all to do with control, most of us know that!

 

Edited April 22 by Brodie

[Rangatira]

39 minutes ago, Brodie said:

They have done so many things that are positive for NZ, whereas I can not think of a single thing that Liebour did that was successful in the 6 years that they manipulated NZ?

Franz Leiber ???

Still making Fairlie good pies.

Boom Boom !!!!

Edited April 22 by Rangatira

[TAB For Ever]

8 hours ago, Brodie said:

TAB, You are totally correct when you say that the TAB should be concentrating on getting their existing clients to invest more!

But unfortunately for them , they havent as yet received your memorandum!

They seem to believe that it is in their best interests to piss their existing clients off by trying to get rid of them!! 

As I have stated many times, their business plan is seriously flawed, and their practice of putting yield over turnover is not what they need to be doing! 

You are incorrect when you state that there are knockers of BGP, quite the opposite I would say!

What these so called knockers do not like, is the preferential treatment that they are given by the TAB!

Yes they are good for racing but they should be capable of standing on their own feet and not be given preferential treatment over other paying customers!

 

 

Brodie old son,  why do you feel threatened by a bunch of ma and pas who put $30 with the BGP on a few days a year and the TAB loves it cos it is good publicity for them and it encourages quite small punters to bet more often. So not only does my mother and grandmother bet more often but they learn about the many betting options that prior to BGP 'funday' they knew nothing about.

And the youngsters too not only learn of the many options available but they join a community group which introduces them to like minded people having a bit of fun with social outings possibly followed by a bit of whisky and sofa afterwards !

Meanwhile you successful punters ie winners...are not wanted by the TAB ,unless you want the challenge of winning off the TOTE.

Go ahead...bet to your hearts delight on the TOTE.

You claim it not the money but the Challenge......but seems to me you looking for an error , an oversight on the part of the TAB who overprices a horses chances. A loophole.

You similar to a card counter at the Casino or the Aussie punters who were manipulating small pools on TAB's and betting with Bookies who paid out on the tote prices. The casino /bank do not tolerate this and remove the threat.

Like the match -fixers in sports contests.

Not tolerated and rightly so.

Save your distress and bet on the tote.

You relish a challenge .......accept it !

The TAB bookies have thousands of FO prices to fix every single day...of course they will get some badly wrong  ...so when  the observant "Brodie the Rodie' tries to swoop in with an oversize place bet they look and see that that bet will ruin their margin on the race so will refuse it. Not discrimination, but simple contract...offer,acceptance ,invitation to treat !

Better business to work with the thousands of punters who ultimately lose than with the handful of punters who win.

And the Codes depend on this for stakes and to put on race meetings.

My other advice is to take your case to the TAB bosses and improve your betting limits...discuss it with them !

[Nowornever]

13 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

My other advice is to take your case to the TAB bosses and improve your betting limits...discuss it with them !

That goes something like this.

Winning punter: TAB bosses please let me win another 200K a year?

TAB bosses: 

 

[Brodie]

10 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Brodie old son,  why do you feel threatened by a bunch of ma and pas who put $30 with the BGP on a few days a year and the TAB loves it cos it is good publicity for them and it encourages quite small punters to bet more often. So not only does my mother and grandmother bet more often but they learn about the many betting options that prior to BGP 'funday' they knew nothing about.

And the youngsters too not only learn of the many options available but they join a community group which introduces them to like minded people having a bit of fun with social outings possibly followed by a bit of whisky and sofa afterwards !

Meanwhile you successful punters ie winners...are not wanted by the TAB ,unless you want the challenge of winning off the TOTE.

Go ahead...bet to your hearts delight on the TOTE.

You claim it not the money but the Challenge......but seems to me you looking for an error , an oversight on the part of the TAB who overprices a horses chances. A loophole.

You similar to a card counter at the Casino or the Aussie punters who were manipulating small pools on TAB's and betting with Bookies who paid out on the tote prices. The casino /bank do not tolerate this and remove the threat.

Like the match -fixers in sports contests.

Not tolerated and rightly so.

Save your distress and bet on the tote.

You relish a challenge .......accept it !

The TAB bookies have thousands of FO prices to fix every single day...of course they will get some badly wrong  ...so when  the observant "Brodie the Rodie' tries to swoop in with an oversize place bet they look and see that that bet will ruin their margin on the race so will refuse it. Not discrimination, but simple contract...offer,acceptance ,invitation to treat !

Better business to work with the thousands of punters who ultimately lose than with the handful of punters who win.

And the Codes depend on this for stakes and to put on race meetings.

My other advice is to take your case to the TAB bosses and improve your betting limits...discuss it with them !

Tabman, first and foremost, we are not threatened by BGP at all, quite the opposite!

I reiterate, it is the treatment of punters differently I find abhorrent!!

If BGP want to punt as a syndicate that is great but they should not get preferential treatment as well as money donated back to them, whilst other punters get shafted!

You are also incorrect if you think Brodie is looking for overs and Bookies midtskes when setting odds!

If he likes something he accepts market odds and quite often unders!

Betting agencies put up the odds and as such should be accepting the bets of punters and to shut down anyone who is prepared to accept the odds they offer!

They are shooting themselves in the foot for the future of racing!

 

 

[the galah]

13 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

So not only does my mother and grandmother bet more often but they learn about the many betting options that prior to BGP 'funday' they knew nothing about.

 

You must have great genes in your family. Last week you were refering to betting when they had the yellow tickets that closed 90 minutes before a race and being alive since brodie was a fetus.How did grandma go in last weeks triathalon? 

but seriously,brodie and i just are  saying things that are real that we have experienced.

The way i see it is,there is a problem going forward and that problem is reduced levels of wagering on harness racing. 

But some people can't see the need to address the contribution tab policies have contributed to less wagering.

Until those people recognise that problem needs to be addressed,then they will never look and find a solution.Recognising a problem is the first step in taking steps to fix it.Thats not happening on this topic.  

TAB/entain have a deliberate policy of restricting winning ff punters,yet offer no alternative policies as a compromise which would be a win/win for each party. I've previously given compromise options that would achieve that. I'm not saying winning punters like brodie would take that opportunity,but at least there would be an alternative.

As to anyone betting on the tote. if the average place tote pool is about $6,000. Say someone puts $500 on a horse paying $3 at the last minute as they believe $2.50 is more a true reflection of its chances. Well the $500 invested on the tote will see the odds reduced to about $1.75. In other words only a stupid punter would do, that. Brodie isn't stupid.So betting on the tote for someone who invests those amounts is not a viable option.Even amounts half that size influence tote dividends too much to make it worthwhile if your putting place bets on.Surely people have worked out by now, that is part of the reason place pools have been dropping.

Edited April 23 by the galah

[Rangatira]

2 hours ago, the galah said:

Well the $500 invested on the tote will see the odds reduced to about $1.75. 

Top effort.

[Brodie]

BOAY is a harness  racing forum and open for anyone to post their thoughts and opinions!

Several of us make posts on things they think are currently wrong with harness racing and make suggestions as to how things could be improved etc.!

It is disappointing that we do not seem to have anyone from HRNZ or TAB/Entain actually come on here and advise us why they do things the way they are, and to be honest it seems very gutless!

Why on earth do they just sit in their offices and allow the industry to be decimated ks hard to fathom, however they seem to be happy enough as long as they are continuing to receive their salaries into their Bank account!

Come on HRNZ and TAB/Entain, come in and express your reasons for why you make what Many of us consider detrimental decisions!