Even More Money for the Karaka Millions!

[TAB For Ever]

6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Glad you finally agree.  Tokyo Tycoon raced on the dodgy new Ellerslie Strathayr and like quite a few horses that raced that night went lame.

But all good everyone including you had a great party.

Actually you very wrong again Chief...get with the program.......I never had a drink or perved at the eye candy so no time to party.

Too busy looking at the great NZ horses on display , plus a couple of Aussies ,watching the great Jockeys ,many world class  and following the BGP bets and like most there enjoying a great day at races.

Talked to a few trainers etc ....and I can say except for a comment from a beaten hot favourite trainer never heard ONE negative comment and also spoke to the trainer of one of the 'slippers'. 

The endless banging on ,repetition of the horrors of the day have mostly come from a few posters .

Oh ,it was also a modern.....for several years........NZ race day betting record smashing the previous NZ Trot Cup day when 11 or 12 races run. But of course the betting margin would not cover the Stakes even tho Sweepstake and sponsorship ,big contributors.

Here's hoping the day can be repeated in next few years....and I think the SOLD OUT sign went up as well at very comfortable crowd level.

A great days racing !

[Murray Fish]

4 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

I think the SOLD OUT sign went up as well at very comfortable crowd level.

A serious question, So much room at that course, but 'choose' to put that sigh up? 

[TAB For Ever]

6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm not sure who the "Tight Five" are that you refer to.  What I do know is those that a similar view to mine have a passion for the industry, have worked hands-on very hard in the industry and still do.

They don't predict doom and gloom - they are describing what is happening.  They point out the issues that they are experiencing now and for the last 25+ years.  They see the same mistakes still being made.  I'm sure most of them would rather see the novelty stakes distributed down the tree, the top tier reduced 25% so they could race on decent safe and fair tracks with good jockeys with a fair Handicap system.  They're not afraid with competing with all comers including the KM raffle ticket owners.

Footnote:  Arguably in the last 4 years the best 2yr old in NZ hasn't been eligible to race in the Karaka Millions.  How does that help NZ racing long term?

I too part of the passionate ,hands on , contributing brotherhood.

But I dropped the  personal bias , bitterness and envy years ago .

But will have to comment later as I only on day-release so got to make the most of it.

Keep your chin up Chief , it not good when their is smoke coming out of your posts !

[Special Agent]

More vendor buy backs on the horizon?

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Actually you very wrong again Chief...get with the program.......I never had a drink or perved at the eye candy so no time to party.

Would you like to edit the posts where you said or inferred you did?

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Talked to a few trainers etc ....and I can say except for a comment from a beaten hot favourite trainer never heard ONE negative comment and also spoke to the trainer of one of the 'slippers'. 

Many didn't know about the problem until the horses cooled down or when they got them home.  

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Here's hoping the day can be repeated in next few years....and I think the SOLD OUT sign went up as well at very comfortable crowd level.

Since when has it been profitable to limit entry when you have acres of real estate to accommodate everyone and not just the privileged few?  

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

I too part of the passionate ,hands on , contributing brotherhood.

When was the last time you were up at 5am and worked a horse?  

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

But I dropped the  personal bias , bitterness and envy years ago .

Are you inferring I'm biased, bitter and envious?

Anyone who has met me recently on course knows that is far from the truth.  

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Keep your chin up Chief , it not good when their is smoke coming out of your posts !

Just answer the question.  How much is NZB contributing to the restricted races that carry their brand?

[curious]

11 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm not sure who the "Tight Five" are that you refer to.  What I do know is those that a similar view to mine have a passion for the industry, have worked hands-on very hard in the industry and still do.

I'm not sure who the fab five are either but I'm wondering if I can join?

[Chief Stipe]

32 minutes ago, curious said:

I'm not sure who the fab five are either but I'm wondering if I can join?

I'll set up a new thread and advertise.

[Doomed]

3 hours ago, curious said:

I'm not sure who the fab five are either but I'm wondering if I can join?

I would never join any club that would have me as a member.

[TAB For Ever]

7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Since when has it been profitable to limit entry when you have acres of real estate to accommodate everyone and not just the privileged few?  

It not all about greed Chief.....when you get 12,000 people attending that rarely attend you have to think of the 'experience' Chief.

Cup week in Chch the same on their two big days.

Plus we can't bemoan the past ...it's gone !

[jess]

On 8/05/2024 at 7:10 PM, Chief Stipe said:

A rough estimate is at least $16m in stakes is restricted by KM eligibility.  (Anyone got a more accurate figure?)

Does anyone know the breakdown of the NZB, KM entry fee and NZTR/ENTAIN contributions?  How much subsidisation is occurring with money sourced from the general pool of revenue?

Yes Chief - this is what I wondered.

If it was all on NZB - then it's harder to argue (so long as it's additional to NZTR's contribution).  But for the likes of an owner-breeder like me - who doesn't go near Karaka with my home-breds - it just feels like another tightening of the screws as I continue to be squeezed out of the industry/sport I've loved. 

The game is increasingly expensive to the point it's prohibitive.  And the whole enterprise is increasingly dominated by, and incentivised for the big players.  This is just another example.

I'm now trying the last of my horses.  Must admit - feeling less optimistic and more like a mug.  I will see it through - they will either succeed or be found good homes as sport horses.  If a filly is worth breeding from - someone else can carry on with her.  Because when this lot is done - I'm out.  You win, fat cats! - NZB - the mega studs - the big syndicators.  

I don't expect any sympathy - it's a first world problem after all !  But I still feel a bit sad about it - and sad for the history of NZ racing - all the farmers I know whose grandfathers - fathers/mothers - and then themselves - had a mare or two and raced the progeny on their own account or with friends.  Our time has come and gone, and I doubt we'll be missed by the those who run the show now.   

Best of luck to those of you who stick around.

Jess  

Edited May 9 by jess
typo

[TAB For Ever]

15 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm not "casting aspersions" I'm asking a valid question.  I'm surprised that as a Cost Accountant who frequently reminds us of your friends in racings elite circles that you don't have the answers at your finger tips. 

With your Kool-aid glazed eyes you once again miss the point.

As @curious has eluded to NZB are using anti-competitive behaviour to exclude what was once a very large and strong pillar of NZ Racing - the home and farm breeder from competing for a significant amount of stake money.  In my opinion that does nothing to help grow the NZ Thorougbred racing population.  The reality is NZB are shooting themselves in the foot.  Those who we need to put their couple of mares in the home paddock to commercial stallions have been excluded as have those taking the risk of improving bloodlines by buying from Australian Sales.  

NZB with the stroke of a pen could change that by allowing anyone intending to race a yearling in NZ the option of joining the sweepstake.

What is NZB contribution to the $16m+ in sweepstake racing?

As for ENTAINS contribution via the suits at NZTR that money is INDUSTRY money for ALL stakeholders to compete for not just those with tickets in the KM marketing extravaganza.  I'll say it again it screws and skews the pattern, it disincentives the very people we need to stay involved and does ZERO to address the fundamental issues facing the industry.  In fact it's making those issues worse!

I think you're worrying about things  well outside  your control and area of understanding.

Just making up imaginary scenarios. It been well documented that its increasing costs which have deterred the small breeder. I dabbled a little with breeding to a commercial stallions with poor results.

And I also have had a lot of experience with my horse syndicates racing a majority of Australian bred , UK bred and home bred horses so often unable to race in the Sales sweepstakes . There are still a lot of nice stakes available for ALL horses to run in .

IMO the big-staked sweepstake races both here and in Australia are good for racing in general......my fellow syndicate members have never showed any bitterness of not being eligible for these races . NEVER ONCE .

NZB would appear to be a NZ owned company and the Vela family have been outstanding contributors to NZ racing.

 

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Plus we can't bemoan the past ...it's gone !

As Winston Churchill said - "those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it".  

[Chief Stipe]

8 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

It not all about greed Chief.....when you get 12,000 people attending that rarely attend you have to think of the 'experience' Chief.

But it doesn't actually address the goal of widening the audience of racing.  What it does is serve to perpetuate the public perception that racing is for a select few elite who have lots of discretionary income to splurge on booze, glam and gambling.  The very thing we should be trying to  change.   

What's more the industry even reinforces that perception more by promoting a meeting that excludes a large number of horses.

[Freda]

7 hours ago, jess said:

Yes Chief - this is what I wondered.

If it was all on NZB - then it's harder to argue (so long as it's additional to NZTR's contribution).  But for the likes of an owner-breeder like me - who doesn't go near Karaka with my home-breds - it just feels like another tightening of the screws as I continue to be squeezed out of the industry/sport I've loved. 

The game is increasingly expensive to the point it's prohibitive.  And the whole enterprise is increasingly dominated by, and incentivised for the big players.  This is just another example.

I'm now trying the last of my horses.  Must admit - feeling less optimistic and more like a mug.  I will see it through - they will either succeed or be found good homes as sport horses.  If a filly is worth breeding from - someone else can carry on with her.  Because when this lot is done - I'm out.  You win, fat cats! - NZB - the mega studs - the big syndicators.  

I don't expect any sympathy - it's a first world problem after all !  But I still feel a bit sad about it - and sad for the history of NZ racing - all the farmers I know whose grandfathers - fathers/mothers - and then themselves - had a mare or two and raced the progeny on their own account or with friends.  Our time has come and gone, and I doubt we'll be missed by the those who run the show now.   

Best of luck to those of you who stick around.

Jess  

Great post, insightful as always, Jess.

An example of the mindset prevailing - a shade off topic, but still -  a local trainer was recently threatened with the loss of his trainers' licence.  A salt-of-the-earth sort of guy, a good jockey formerly, has trained for years, campaigned a very good horse in Australia a few years ago with success; and still has a smart one racing at the moment which has been successful recently at Trentham.

His crime?    couldn't supply an email address.   Some might think this is justified, after all, email communication has largely taken over the written, posted letter.  But many large businesses still supply communication in hardcopy if required.  No suggestion that your power will be cut off if you want your bills in the post.

How hard is it, you lazy bastards, to send this bloke - and a few others like him, no doubt, a letter?  Maybe ring him if urgent?  it's not as if there will be very many to accommodate like this.

[Chief Stipe]

7 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

I think you're worrying about things  well outside  your control and area of understanding.

I don't think you do actually think beyond regurgitating the party marketing line.

Perhaps I can't control anything but I sure can express my opinion to those that supposedly do have control.

As for my area of understanding you have no idea what my area or level of understanding is yet have the arrogance to assume you do.  Reminds me of a few of the "experts" who have the control.

7 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Just making up imaginary scenarios. It been well documented that its increasing costs which have deterred the small breeder. I dabbled a little with breeding to a commercial stallions with poor results.

Imaginary scenarios?  Perhaps in your imaginary world of nirvana.  It just shows how out of touch with reality you are.  Symptomatic of many that are "in control"!  

Which breeders elevated the likes of Zed and Per Incanto?  I assure you it wasn't the elite with their large herds of blue blood.  It was the common everyday small breeder.  The breeder who connects better with their local community and racing enthusiasts than any large stud.

7 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

IMO the big-staked sweepstake races both here and in Australia are good for racing in general......my fellow syndicate members have never showed any bitterness of not being eligible for these races . NEVER ONCE .

Perhaps they've never had an ineligible horse good enough to compete.  Again you cast the aspersion that I'm bitter.  I'm far from it.  I just believe that a proliferation of novelty and sweepstake races will ruin racing and eventually the breed.  It is clearly evident that they have screwed the pattern and the quality of our racing.

I also object to the skewing of the playing field towards an elite group in a sport that should be promoting competition not restricting it.

7 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

NZB would appear to be a NZ owned company and the Vela family have been outstanding contributors to NZ racing.

Yes I don't disagree and they have made lots of money from their work.  Bolstered of course by enforcing a monopoly and engaging in anti-competitve behaviour.  Shouldn't they be more transparent with what THEIR contribution is to the restricted races that they are the headline sponsor of?

PS: Did Ellerslie really need a new helicopter pad?

[Chief Stipe]

16 minutes ago, Freda said:

How hard is it, you lazy bastards, to send this bloke - and a few others like him, no doubt, a letter?  Maybe ring him if urgent?  it's not as if there will be very many to accommodate like this.

Or wander out of the President's bar on raceday and hand the documents to him in the birdcage?

[Chief Stipe]

I must be alone in thinking that to compete fully in New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing you increasingly HAVE to buy/sell your horse through NZB and pay extra for the privilege.

Look what a monopoly did to the NZTAB!

[Huey]

10 hours ago, jess said:

Yes Chief - this is what I wondered.

If it was all on NZB - then it's harder to argue (so long as it's additional to NZTR's contribution).  But for the likes of an owner-breeder like me - who doesn't go near Karaka with my home-breds - it just feels like another tightening of the screws as I continue to be squeezed out of the industry/sport I've loved. 

 

 

Unfortunately that is the plan, to choke the smaller trainer out of the industry , of course the other thing that does is close down local race tracks by stealth with little or no resistance so they can sell up.

[jess]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

Great post, insightful as always, Jess.

An example of the mindset prevailing - a shade off topic, but still -  a local trainer was recently threatened with the loss of his trainers' licence.  A salt-of-the-earth sort of guy, a good jockey formerly, has trained for years, campaigned a very good horse in Australia a few years ago with success; and still has a smart one racing at the moment which has been successful recently at Trentham.

His crime?    couldn't supply an email address.   Some might think this is justified, after all, email communication has largely taken over the written, posted letter.  But many large businesses still supply communication in hardcopy if required.  No suggestion that your power will be cut off if you want your bills in the post.

How hard is it, you lazy bastards, to send this bloke - and a few others like him, no doubt, a letter?  Maybe ring him if urgent?  it's not as if there will be very many to accommodate like this.

What a story.

Yep - they'll be happy to send that person to the sideline - possibly sniggering as they do so - yet they will happily embrace others whose behavior, and/or disciplinary record leaves much to be desired.

Just another illustration of some pretty distasteful attitudes/treatment from those who run the show.  And Freda, now I think about it.  I reckon you were right to post it here - it does fit this thread.  It's just another face the industry leaders have decided does not fit - and for whom they are prepared to make zero effort to accommodate - not at all bothered if they are squeezed out.  They are happy to shout from the rooftops all the things they think display their superior & admirable values - the CPD - the welfare stuff - the TBs off the track cheer-leading - but when it comes right down to it - this is who they are.

I've always said that the real mark of a man (or woman) and their integrity is what they do when no-one's looking.  And when you do get a glimpse beyond the glossy veneer of this outfit - back in the recesses where they think most things are hidden from public view -this is the sort of thing you see.

Jess. 

[jess]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I must be alone in thinking that to compete fully in New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing you increasingly HAVE to buy/sell your horse through NZB and pay extra for the privilege.

Look what a monopoly did to the NZTAB!

Yep Chief - that seems to be the plan.  Also alludes to what Huey posted.  It's starting to feel cartel-like to me - a bit like the supermarket duopoly. 

I have an image in my mind.  If only I was artistic - I would draw a cartoon of a giant spinning thing with all of us industry participants inside it.  And as the apparatus gathers speed and spins faster & faster - the centrifugal force spits the small players - trainers, breeders, owners and non-NZB players out of the machine - where they splat against the outer wall and slide down, leaving a smear of blood on the wall & a small crumpled carcass on the floor.  Whilst the big players continue to party in the middle - holding their trophies aloft & clinking their champagne glasses.

 

 

Edited May 9 by jess
typo