Looking forward to reading the Stewards report

[Nowornever]

8 hours ago, the galah said:

If your going to say that,then i would say you haven't given me a good example.

Heartbreak Hotel beaten more than 50 metres last two starts and nearly rank outsider of the field, never placed before but never questioned.

If you are looking for more examples I can give you dozens in the last few months but the point is there is no consistency at all on their part and all they do is make themselves look stupid with random inquiries to drivers on horses that have placed for obvious reasons. 

Have they got a rule book they can use to determine if a question needs to be asked of the trainer or driver? If it is just down to the discretion of the stipes on the day then that is asking for trouble and they leave themselves open for all sorts of integrity/favouritism implications because they never get it right, for example your Brent Barclay argument.

They should get a set of guidelines drawn up and make it public. Then they can be held to account and drivers and trainers and punters know where they stand.

[Gammalite]

7 hours ago, the galah said:

So i think your quite wrong if your suggesting the stipes should not consider the tote prices relevant.

Stewards view and assess the entire field. they are not fixated on odds like punters.

 

7 hours ago, the galah said:

Then you say stewards don't tell drivers how to drive. 

well that is true but their job is to oversee an industry that expects a level of tactical competence from the drivers and very importantly,the perception that everyone is trying.

Of course they DON"T. you know this. They are not going to say to a driver "You should of pulled out around the death seat horse at the 600m as you would of won the race then " as is the case being put forward in this thread . Because the driver has experience. The horse is a maiden.  (could of just placed 3rd even if he did that ? who knows for sure)

Good drivers win about 1 in 7 race drives. After a lot of races you might think what you could of done better to finish closer with the 6 that didn't win. Tactical moves are SPUR of the Moment sometimes. you don't have a lot of time to make your mind up.

Walt makes it sound like the guy deliberately was trying to get held up and the stewards should be reprimanded for not doing something about it.?   shining a poor light on both. I tend to support Both those parties in this instance.  😎The driver might have won the race if he got going earlier, he might not of either. It's not for the stewards or Punter to decide. The driver decides. his tactic didn't work out on this occasion.  He was beaten a neck, 1/2 neck so must of had clear air at some stage in the straight. more than what some get at times. 

 

[Walt]

10 hours ago, Gammalite said:

you're fixated on the starting odds Walt. Stewards aren't . that's the fact of the matter. 

You expect the stewards to question a driver based on the support on the tote for the horse and it not being driven in the manner you thought it should.  ( like Mo'unga a good example) 

Why should they? they don't control the odds. I can't recall ever being questioned in hundreds of races , because of the starting odds ?? nor anyone I worked with being questioned ,based on the criteria you are supplying . Stewards query a horses action is what they do , a fav I drove once hopped and skipped from the outside gate. I made up some crap like the track surface was a bit looser out there and too much give( It was too , I could here all the grit hitting the outside fence like you were throwing it at it from a shovel lol) but they don't care . Out of the draw for 2 starts you go . No matter what the odds on horse. Only time I remember being questioned actually

Stewards don't tell drivers how to drive. They don't care about the odds of a horse. It's not their job. They police the racing to be a 'fair' and 'safe' contest . If a horse makes an error they address it. If a horse gets held up by a bad driving tactic , they have no reason to jump up and down?.  that's just you mate . and a few hundred people at Randwick or Ellerslie or any race meeting every week , where their horse gets held up till late. Happens ALL the Time mate. 

Tough titties for the punter. PLENTY of horses get held up in the run. most races that happens. and plenty of Punters and non drivers think they can drive or ride better than someone out there in a race that they are watching. that happens most races as well lol.😂 

I have mentioned the $1.70 starting price several times Gamma but only because I do feel it's relevant. I don't believe I'm "fixated' on it. I am however fixated on all races being authentic and Stewards ask questions when events unfold during the race worthy of inspection and answers.

Why do we have passing lanes? To keep frustration levels down with punters or to please trainers and drivers? I know dozens of trainers and drivers. Some are just contacts while others are close friends. Two have grand records in Group 1 races. Most are not complimentary toward passing lanes and refer to them as the "cheats lane".

Why do we have mobile starts? I remember back in the day numerous trainers that were true masters of getting horses away from the stand. From a punting perspective watching your horse blow to bits at the start and either get pulled up or trail the field in a different post code is not a good look or feel. If you want punters to return to the track that is not the way to do it. Many people around you are excited in the home straight but you've already got your head down looking at the next race. Personally, I prefer standing starts. That's part of the reason I embrace the NZ Cup, Dominion Handicap, Rowe Cup etc etc. It's old school but I feel most punters probably prefer mobile starts to ensure they are not left cold at the start. 

In most races you'll find an unlucky runner or perhaps several. Some of those runners often feature as unlucky because they need to be driven for luck. As soon as I confirm that I know the horse has limitations so factor that in to my wagering. 

If an odds on pot ran a shocker then a question should be asked on behalf of the punters who wagered their hard earned in good faith. Not because there is anything dodgy going on but for transparency. Punters may find there was a genuine reason for the poor run and as a result will stay with the ship. 

What was said in the Stewards report about Major Medley was a load of perfunctory twaddle. Of course the horse was blocked in the straight. Blind Freddy could see that and also see Brent gave what appeared to be a 100% effort in the straight to obtain the best placing. That however is not the issue. It's what unfolded 500 metres earlier that really matters as that is exactly what dictated him winning or losing. No question was even asked about that. You don't see an issue there where as I'm incredulous at what I witnessed which was "potentially" deliberate. 

I love harness racing but anyone who tells you there is no skullduggery in the game is pulling your chain. Thankfully, there's very little of it but it does exist. If no banned substances are involved it can be difficult to prove. 

Racehorse management is an important aspect of a horses career, especially it's longevity. Trainers know what times they run in certain grades and what time their charge is capable of running. If you had a trotter for example that you could routinely pick up cheque's for placings month in month out, the prize money adds up. It can also be a reliable source of income via place betting at the TAB. If that runner wins a race too soon he'll get one pay cheque and then struggle in the next grade. Training horses is an expensive business. Too expensive to shoot yourself in the foot and keep going around for SFA.

Penalty free events can be a Godsend. There are several trainers around Canterbury especially that manage the careers of horses with limited ability to an absolute tee. If punters are paying attention they know what they will likely get. No skullduggery involved, just sensible and practical racehorse career management. 

I didn't have a bean on Major Medley but was filthy watching what unfolded. It was a bad look that warranted questions being asked. As I stated with the Mo'unga charade in the Westport Cup, if questions are not asked it ensures more of the same will occur regardless of how blatant it is. 

Harness Racing competes for the discretionary $.....It's good sport.....but it's not that good. 

[Walt]

19 minutes ago, Nowornever said:

Heartbreak Hotel beaten more than 50 metres last two starts and nearly rank outsider of the field, never placed before but never questioned.

If you are looking for more examples I can give you dozens in the last few months but the point is there is no consistency at all on their part and all they do is make themselves look stupid with random inquiries to drivers on horses that have placed for obvious reasons. 

Have they got a rule book they can use to determine if a question needs to be asked of the trainer or driver? If it is just down to the discretion of the stipes on the day then that is asking for trouble and they leave themselves open for all sorts of integrity/favouritism implications because they never get it right, for example your Brent Barclay argument.

They should get a set of guidelines drawn up and make it public. Then they can be held to account and drivers and trainers and punters know where they stand.

I see that run differently Nowornever. 

Context is always important. I've pointed out on here that Heartbreak Hotel is not short on ability and will win races. His ring craft however is still a work in progress. The reason he finished so far behind them previously was entirely related to him blowing to bits, rather than not being good enough. He went around yesterday in one piece and ran a confidence building third. Once Gavin can put more pressure on him in races he'll win his share for sure. What will he do next week? Who knows which is why it's called gambling. 

[Nowornever]

22 minutes ago, Walt said:

Context is always important

Yes both you and I know his greenness is why he has been out of the running but the average punter who knows nothing about ability looks at his form and sees 80003 and presumably that is why the stipes are questioning these trainers and drivers.

If they took context into account then Good Time Betty would never have been questioned and neither would a ton of others where they have conducted a meaningless integration.

[the galah]

6 hours ago, Nowornever said:

Heartbreak Hotel beaten more than 50 metres last two starts and nearly rank outsider of the field, never placed before but never questioned.

If you are looking for more examples I can give you dozens in the last few months but the point is there is no consistency at all on their part and all they do is make themselves look stupid with random inquiries to drivers on horses that have placed for obvious reasons. 

Have they got a rule book they can use to determine if a question needs to be asked of the trainer or driver? If it is just down to the discretion of the stipes on the day then that is asking for trouble and they leave themselves open for all sorts of integrity/favouritism implications because they never get it right, for example your Brent Barclay argument.

They should get a set of guidelines drawn up and make it public. Then they can be held to account and drivers and trainers and punters know where they stand.

I think thats a very over the top reaction to a stipe asking a simple question with the intention of informing the punter.

I can't see what the problem is.

as to your point about consistency. i think you do make a good point.

But i think they are consistent in their own way.

The canterbury stipes make more of an effort to inform the punter and police the rules.

the north island stipes seem to occasionally have slept through some races and aren't as committed to transparency and miss some obvious things.

And the southland stipe comes from an area where he most likely sees those involved more on a social level than stipes in other areas so tries to tread a fine line and occasionally the punters lose confidence in the product because he hasn't scrutinised something that he should have.

Now i make those comments based solely on what i read in the stipes reports they produce. and without knowing them. 

Its similar to district court judges for example.

Judges put their own interpretaion of the seriousness of certain offences and use their discretion when deciding what an appropriate sentence may be,knowing what the legislation says.

I've always thought you can get quite a bit of inconsistency around the country depending on what judge is in what area.

for example.I know in one city there was a resident judge who for years was pretty hard on repeat drink driving. Then when he retired the judge that replaced him took a much softer sentencing approach to repeat offenders,with the result drink driving numbers increased even with less policing.

Edited May 13 by the galah

[the galah]

6 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Stewards view and assess the entire field. they are not fixated on odds like punters.

 

Of course they DON"T. you know this. . 

 

Stewards do factor in what a horse is paying when considering whether to ask the question as to why a poor performance or driven in a certain way.

It used to be standard practice to read what the driver of a beaten favorite had to say in stipes reports in nz. Doesn't happen now,but it did not that long ago,so if you wanted proof that a horses short price is an indication that the stewards will consider seeking comment if they deem necessary,well there you have it.

I'm not sure why your sticking to the stewards are different from punters theme. It is just one of many things that they must consider.

Who would have anyone have any confidence in the sport if they thought stipes couldn't differentiate between a 70/1 shot and an odds on shot being driven to go on the fence at the first opportunity and be driven for luck. 

When you said stewards don't tell drivers how to drive,and i should know that.

well i agreed with that,but i gave context to that so i'm not sure what you are meaning there.

when you said Walt was deliberatley implying barclay was trying to get beaten.

well thats not my interpretation of what he said about mr barclay. i thought he was implying the level of tactical competence was sadly lacking and that because of that the question as to why he adopted thoswe tactics should have been asked.

Have you ever thought gammalite that perhaps barclay hasd a reasonable explanation that had punters been informed they would have accepted. The southland stipe gave barclay no such opportunity.

That drive iis different from moungas drive as two different posters on here said they were told before the race mounga was not there to win.

One thing i'm tired of,is people ignoring the video evidence.

Every race has a video which captures what happens. Anyone can watch it.

 

Edited May 13 by the galah

[Nowornever]

Yes zero consistency.

For mine the biggest improvers run of the day at Ashburton without question was Franco Humbie sitting parked in quick time and winning easily. That was a massive run and a big improvement from what he has been showing in his last 10 runs.  No questions there but why not? If any questions needed to asked for improvement it was that race considering the run it received.

Anyway I am sick of talking about the inconsistency of the stipes. Nothing will change as they are a law unto themselves.

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, Nowornever said:

Yes zero consistency.

For mine the biggest improvers run of the day at Ashburton without question was Franco Humbie sitting parked in quick time and winning easily. That was a massive run and a big improvement from what he has been showing in his last 10 runs.  No questions there but why not? If any questions needed to asked for improvement it was that race considering the run it received.

Anyway I am sick of talking about the inconsistency of the stipes. Nothing will change as they are a law unto themselves.

Agreed, there is no consistency in a lot of what is going on in harness at the mo!

Several reinsman every meeting getting warned or fined for being in breach of the stupid whip rule that is currently in place!

Personally as a punter think there is bigger issues that the Stipes should be worrying about rather than fining drivers that are trying to actually win the race!

As a punter, I have a bigger issue with drivers that deliberately head down to the fence to be 5 back, when they could be 3 back in the running line!!!!!!!!

The Stipes should be warning THOSE DRIVERS that are nlt giving their horse much chance than fining and warning those that actually want to win!

They currently have it TOTALLY WRONG and to my mind that undermines the integrity more than the blatantly stupid whip rule that needs GONE!
It is blatantly obvious obvious why our leading driver’s UDR are so much higher than the other drivers that have low UDR ratings!

Their IQ and ability to read a race and the desire to do best by the owner is clear to see.

There are too many drivers that go out to collect the driving fee and see what is going to happen in the race, and have no serious intent to actually influence the horses chances of winning!

The current rating system that is in play also has a big influence on how serious some trainers and drivers are, and until that is changed there will be inconsistencies!

 

 

Edited May 13 by Brodie

[Rangatira]

20 hours ago, Brodie said:

Peter Yeatman must be a fair age now?

Kata Hoiho and Montini Royal really nice horses for Peter Yeatman

Edited May 13 by Rangatira

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, Rangatira said:

Kata Hoiho and Montini Royal really nice horses for Peter Yeatman

Good Time Betty was a good horse on Sunday!

Peter must be well into his 80’s?

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

It is blatantly obvious obvious why our leading driver’s UDR are so much higher than the other drivers that have low UDR ratings!

Their IQ and ability to read a race and the desire to do best by the owner is clear to see.

There are too many drivers that go out to collect the driving fee and see what is going to happen in the race, and have no serious intent to actually influence the horses chances of winning!

The current rating system that is in play also has a big influence on how serious some trainers and drivers are, and until that is changed there will be inconsistencies!

 

 

what makes a top driver is an interesting topic. 

youv'e stated IQ and ability to read a race and desire.

I think abilty to judge pace is one of the most important.

Self confidence another. You only have to look at how good some drivers can be when they are in form. Johnny cox an example of that. Currently he would be the most in form driver. 

Even some top drivers form can be a bit patchy,so current self belief and confidence show the mindset is important.

blair orange an example of somone who always at his best.

obviously the horse is extremely important.

abilty of the trainers that they drive for another.

very few can reach the heights of the very best,but anyone just competing ito the best of their abilities is an achievement that should be applauded when they do have success.

Thats the thing about harness racing and racing in general.

For 95% of people that have success,the level of enjoyment is the same at the bottom level as it would be for those in a group 1 race.

that actually should be part of how racing is promoted going forward. 

Keep it real. You can't sell the dream that you can be expected to make money in horse racing,but you can promote selling the dream that you will experience a high that you can't get elsewhere should you have some success.

thats what that unhinged fella does so well and is why his content needs promoted more.

Edited May 13 by the galah

[Gammalite]

23 minutes ago, the galah said:

what makes a top driver is an interesting topic. 

youv'e stated IQ and ability to read a race and desire.

I think abilty to judge pace is one of the most important.

Self confidence another. You only have to look at how good some drivers can be when they are in form. Johnny cox an example of that. Currently he would be the most in form driver. 

Even some top drivers form can be a bit patchy,so current self belief and confidence show the mindset is important.

blair orange an example of somone who always at his best.

obviously the horse is extremely important.

abilty of the trainers that they drive for another.

very few can reach the heights of the very best,but anyone just competing ito the best of their abilities is an achievement that should be applauded when they do have success.

Thats the thing about harness racing and racing in general.

For 95% of people that have success,the level of enjoyment is the same at the bottom level as it would be for those in a group 1 race.

that actually should be part of how racing is promoted going forward. 

Keep it real. You can't sell the dream that you can be expected to make money in horse racing,but you can promote selling the dream that you will experience a high that you can't get elsewhere should you have some success.

thats what that unhinged fella does so well and is why his content needs promoted more.

Some great points and debatable ones too thanks Mr Galah. 

Tactical competence an important one. Walt and yourself not happy with Barclay (obviously) nor the bloke driving Westport Cup on Mo'unga.( there was a worse drive in that race but moving on). 

I think Barclay probably felt 'awful' he didn't get the win because of an error as described by Walt. But you only have a moment in time to make these decisions and live with em' after. I and many made plenty of mistakes but you're doing the best you can at the time, and to be called incompetent after just doesn't sit right with me , in that VERY Competitve environment.  

I thought Blair Orange actually had a 'quiet ' patch when he returned from World Driving Championship , and Jonny Cox has been picked to pieces before .(on BOAY and other places in the past) But seems to have come good. I still not keen backing him lol.😂

Have a look at Natalie. I always back her but on Messenger night she drove 3 horses, all 2nd fav's as you are worried about odds . and all 3 ran 2nd last after some hairy fairy runs. But we're not calling Nat incompetent ? she bounced back winning the Sires Stakes Final on Friday Addington. Look how hard she had to drive and tactical assess that race to win by half a nose. Same with John Dunn in the Mo'unga final. A Dunn tactical battle that saw Charlie Brown win. by a nose. These races are hard to win. even with 'Competent' drivers. but let's get stuck in to Barclay or Cameron or Mo'unga driver or whoever because they lost a race. Happens a fair bit IMO 🙃

Driver's can make an error , when they should take off . It happens. I feel sorry for Barclay (and Nat) as have been in that position . you try something and it doesn't come off. Happens a lot. 

I have been wrong here at BOAY. as wouldn't of punished Cameron that time on horse 'Saginaw' (who was an outsider) and got beat not coming out at the right time or something . You guys cryed foul about it. > and yes. were all correct in the stewards eye as it panned.  he got 3 months suspension or something for incompetent drive. The odds didn't matter. Because > as always they don't. I thought that was awful IMO. 

I've never ever a Steward even mention a horses odds in their report here. It doesn't matter here. Usually if they are in the market it's because they drew well at the barrier. Stewards tend to just worry about a drivers actions effecting others, and a horses actions in the main. 

I don't think any $1.70 fav should be gifted any race and can get beat the same as the 20-1 shot. All the other drivers are trying to beat you afterall 😂👍

 

 

[Brodie]

You can tell who are going to be good drivers early on.

When interviewed they are fluent and confident in what they say, whereas the nesitant ones with their speech are hesitant with their driving,

Carter Dalgety, easily our best Junior  at the moment and probably ever, speaks confidently and well and this shows up in his driving!

Dexter, Blair, John Dunn, Mark Purdon, Nat Rasmussen, Tony H, Robbie C and there are many others all have  a very good UDR, and all good in interviews!

It is no coincidence!

[Rangatira]

28 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

All the other drivers are trying to beat you afterall 😂👍

By staying in the one by one he made that so much easier.

Edited May 13 by Rangatira

[Westview]

2 hours ago, the galah said:

what makes a top driver is an interesting topic. 

youv'e stated IQ and ability to read a race and desire.

I think abilty to judge pace is one of the most important.

Self confidence another. You only have to look at how good some drivers can be when they are in form. Johnny cox an example of that. Currently he would be the most in form driver. 

Even some top drivers form can be a bit patchy,so current self belief and confidence show the mindset is important.

blair orange an example of somone who always at his best.

obviously the horse is extremely important.

abilty of the trainers that they drive for another.

very few can reach the heights of the very best,but anyone just competing ito the best of their abilities is an achievement that should be applauded when they do have success.

Thats the thing about harness racing and racing in general.

For 95% of people that have success,the level of enjoyment is the same at the bottom level as it would be for those in a group 1 race.

that actually should be part of how racing is promoted going forward. 

Keep it real. You can't sell the dream that you can be expected to make money in horse racing,but you can promote selling the dream that you will experience a high that you can't get elsewhere should you have some success.

thats what that unhinged fella does so well and is why his content needs promoted more.

Galah you are on the money with how we should be promoting our industry but unfortunately hrnz have chosen to promote a race day experience that doesn't exist just check out harnesslife on facebook this is where our money is being spent.

[Nowornever]

29 minutes ago, Westview said:

Galah you are on the money with how we should be promoting our industry but unfortunately hrnz have chosen to promote a race day experience that doesn't exist just check out harnesslife on facebook this is where our money is being spent.

 

 

Edited May 13 by Nowornever

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Westview said:

Galah you are on the money with how we should be promoting our industry but unfortunately hrnz have chosen to promote a race day experience that doesn't exist just check out harnesslife on facebook this is where our money is being spent.

Just had a look at harnesslife. Not much to it. Points for trying i suppose.

But theres a bland feeling to it. 

i don't know,but isn't it obvious theres reasons unhinged is so well known and so watched .

So,forgive me for stating the obvious,but its the content of unhinged.

obviously the front person helps,but the subjects of his interviews are real people,with real relateable emotions and personalities,all that combined with also showcasing the horses and delving into their  personalities.

its a proven product with nothing but positives.

Hard to understand why  hrnz doesn't  take advantage of something right there under their noses.

but hey,some of the decision making by hrnz seems to lack logic,so if the same people are coming up with strange decsions in other areas of the industry,should we expect anything different?

Edited May 13 by the galah

[the galah]

4 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Some great points and debatable ones too thanks Mr Galah. 

Tactical competence an important one. Walt and yourself not happy with Barclay (obviously) nor the bloke driving Westport Cup on Mo'unga.( there was a worse drive in that race but moving on). 

I think Barclay probably felt 'awful' he didn't get the win because of an error as described by Walt. But you only have a moment in time to make these decisions and live with em' after. I and many made plenty of mistakes but you're doing the best you can at the time, and to be called incompetent after just doesn't sit right with me , in that VERY Competitve environment.  

I thought Blair Orange actually had a 'quiet ' patch when he returned from World Driving Championship , and Jonny Cox has been picked to pieces before .(on BOAY and other places in the past) But seems to have come good. I still not keen backing him lol.😂

Have a look at Natalie. I always back her but on Messenger night she drove 3 horses, all 2nd fav's as you are worried about odds . and all 3 ran 2nd last after some hairy fairy runs. But we're not calling Nat incompetent ? she bounced back winning the Sires Stakes Final on Friday Addington. Look how hard she had to drive and tactical assess that race to win by half a nose. Same with John Dunn in the Mo'unga final. A Dunn tactical battle that saw Charlie Brown win. by a nose. These races are hard to win. even with 'Competent' drivers. but let's get stuck in to Barclay or Cameron or Mo'unga driver or whoever because they lost a race. Happens a fair bit IMO 🙃

Driver's can make an error , when they should take off . It happens. I feel sorry for Barclay (and Nat) as have been in that position . you try something and it doesn't come off. Happens a lot. 

I have been wrong here at BOAY. as wouldn't of punished Cameron that time on horse 'Saginaw' (who was an outsider) and got beat not coming out at the right time or something . You guys cryed foul about it. > and yes. were all correct in the stewards eye as it panned.  he got 3 months suspension or something for incompetent drive. The odds didn't matter. Because > as always they don't. I thought that was awful IMO. 

I've never ever a Steward even mention a horses odds in their report here. It doesn't matter here. Usually if they are in the market it's because they drew well at the barrier. Stewards tend to just worry about a drivers actions effecting others, and a horses actions in the main. 

I don't think any $1.70 fav should be gifted any race and can get beat the same as the 20-1 shot. All the other drivers are trying to beat you afterall 😂👍

 

 

What i would say gammalite,is irrespective of the merits of both sides of the argument about specific drivers decisons,isn't it clear from what you have read on here,that there is an expectation from many punters that its appropriate that stipes sometimes ask questions of drivers .

lets face it,racing can't afford to lose any punters . .

for example walt has said he hasn't had a bet since he backed mounga.

i can tell you i stopped betting for a wee while after watching mounga who i backed. Also i remember after reading the stipes report on that david butcher drive on turnpike joe i stopped betting on north island trots for a couple of weeks. Why support something that you don't think is honest?

I also know someone was unimpressed with what he saw as questionable tactics as relates  brent barclay drive being discussed so just stopped for the rest of the day on saturday.(not me)

so my point is.

harness racing these days can't afford to lose punters for a day,a week or months.Most punters just keep betting ,but theres a % that get turned off.

For some reason Its a factor that people don't seem to consider when discussing this type of subject.

Edited May 13 by the galah

[Walt]

12 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Some great points and debatable ones too thanks Mr Galah. 

Tactical competence an important one. Walt and yourself not happy with Barclay (obviously) nor the bloke driving Westport Cup on Mo'unga.( there was a worse drive in that race but moving on). 

I think Barclay probably felt 'awful' he didn't get the win because of an error as described by Walt. But you only have a moment in time to make these decisions and live with em' after. I and many made plenty of mistakes but you're doing the best you can at the time, and to be called incompetent after just doesn't sit right with me , in that VERY Competitve environment.  

I thought Blair Orange actually had a 'quiet ' patch when he returned from World Driving Championship , and Jonny Cox has been picked to pieces before .(on BOAY and other places in the past) But seems to have come good. I still not keen backing him lol.😂

Have a look at Natalie. I always back her but on Messenger night she drove 3 horses, all 2nd fav's as you are worried about odds . and all 3 ran 2nd last after some hairy fairy runs. But we're not calling Nat incompetent ? she bounced back winning the Sires Stakes Final on Friday Addington. Look how hard she had to drive and tactical assess that race to win by half a nose. Same with John Dunn in the Mo'unga final. A Dunn tactical battle that saw Charlie Brown win. by a nose. These races are hard to win. even with 'Competent' drivers. but let's get stuck in to Barclay or Cameron or Mo'unga driver or whoever because they lost a race. Happens a fair bit IMO 🙃

Driver's can make an error , when they should take off . It happens. I feel sorry for Barclay (and Nat) as have been in that position . you try something and it doesn't come off. Happens a lot. 

I have been wrong here at BOAY. as wouldn't of punished Cameron that time on horse 'Saginaw' (who was an outsider) and got beat not coming out at the right time or something . You guys cryed foul about it. > and yes. were all correct in the stewards eye as it panned.  he got 3 months suspension or something for incompetent drive. The odds didn't matter. Because > as always they don't. I thought that was awful IMO. 

I've never ever a Steward even mention a horses odds in their report here. It doesn't matter here. Usually if they are in the market it's because they drew well at the barrier. Stewards tend to just worry about a drivers actions effecting others, and a horses actions in the main. 

I don't think any $1.70 fav should be gifted any race and can get beat the same as the 20-1 shot. All the other drivers are trying to beat you afterall 😂👍

 

 

Some very good points Gamma but I dispute one of them. You say Brent only had a moment in time to make the decisions. 

If you go back and watch the replay you'll see he could have eaten a Big Mac in the time he had to make that decision. He had clear air for several hundred metres. He knew the runs from behind would come and that if he didn't move at least to the outside of Big Boys Toys he would find himself "all dressed up with nowhere to go"....hate that bollocks but there you go.

What concerns me is the following. It was a rookie mistake but Brent is light years away from being a rookie.

The connection between Brent and the trainer / driver of the winner at long odds.

The fact no questions were asked and the Stewards completely skipped over the most important aspect of Major Medley's run with their review. 

Anyway, onward and upwards. I've pointed out previously that I've been a student of form for decades. I made a successful living off my wagering all while my children with all their needs and wants were growing up. I paid for our North Shore, Auckland home almost exclusively from gambling. I concede that was prior to Auckland house prices moving to Cuckoo land.

My point is I know how to read races and know what I witnessed at Winton. I wouldn't blame anyone that suggested it was possibly not an error. 

[Walt]

14 hours ago, Rangatira said:

Kata Hoiho and Montini Royal really nice horses for Peter Yeatman

There's a couple of solid names from the past Rangatira. 

I remember both well plus several others Peter had numerous wins with. 

He was a regular visitor to Nelson and the Coast year after year and rarely returned back to base without a winner. Good to see him still in the game after so many years. 

 

[Brodie]

Have watched that race and would agree Brent Barclay best move would have been to hook out and go parked!

However we all know in all races there are poor drives!

What I shake my head at is when a driver is 3 back the fence and travelling well.

They decide to come off the fence on the bend and never get a run full of running!

The horse 4 back on the fence gets a run up the inside and wins or places a d you are still looking for a run.

It happens all the time,  and generally from drivers with the low UDR’s as the better drivers will stay the fence if they are only 3 back!

Anyway race is over and I doubt Entain will care as they collected off the win punters.

Tomorrows fields at Addington Wednesday meeting are disappointing, 7 races and 3 have only 7 starters!

Do we need so many meetings in Canterbury at this time of year, as it probably wont improve?

 

[Nowornever]

6 minutes ago, Brodie said:

What I shake my head at is when a driver is 3 back the fence and travelling well.

They decide to come off the fence on the bend and never get a run full of running!

The horse 4 back on the fence gets a run up the inside and wins or places a d you are still looking for a run.

I could write a book on drivers doing that. One of my pet peeves also. Hope For Love at Rangiora in the last race on 5th May the latest of my hairpulling rants. Had a decent place multi finishing on that one, but she pulled off the fence and went nowhere while the horse behind her says thanks and goes on to run a place.

When you are three deep the fence and pull off, half the time it is onto the back of the parked horse who is on his way backwards. You right Brodie you see it time and time again.

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

 

Tomorrows fields at Addington Wednesday meeting are disappointing, 7 races and 3 have only 7 starters!

Do we need so many meetings in Canterbury at this time of year, as it probably wont improve?

 

72 horses running tomorrow in the 7 races,so while some fields not as full as normal,still not too bad overall.

They are run in timeslots where they can generate turnover and you would think they should run at a profit.

More income for a broad cross section of industry trainers /drivers and owners and gives the trainers more options to choose where best to place their horses.

I think these wednesday meetings in canterbury are good.

Edited May 14 by the galah

[Westview]

32 minutes ago, the galah said:

72 horses running tomorrow in the 7 races,so while some fields not as full as normal,still not too bad overall.

They are run in timeslots where they can generate turnover and you would think they should run at a profit.

More income for a broad cross section of industry trainers /drivers and owners and gives the trainers more options to choose where best to place their horses.

I think these wednesday meetings in canterbury are good.

Unfortunately the betting for these meetings hasn't been good but as you say catering for this class of horse's and their owners is.