curious Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 I'm pretty sure that NZTR signed up to the IFHA Principles of Good Practice for the use of the Whip in Horse Racing some years back. Prohibited Use of the Whip 6. The following actions are prohibited under the provisions of Article 11 B of the International Agreement on Breeding, Racing and Wagering and the enforcement of these prohibited actions should be regarded as the minimum acceptable standard of regulation. Using the whip to the extent of causing injury; Using the whip with the arm above shoulder height; Using the whip with excessive force; Using the whip on a horse which is showing no response; The continued use of the whip on a horse after its chance of winning or being placed is clearly gone; The unnecessary use of the whip on a horse that has clearly won its race or has obtained its maximum placing; Using the whip on a horse which is past the winning post; Using the whip on the flank of the horse; Using the whip with excessive frequency; Using the whip on any part of the horse’s head or in the vicinity of the head; The use of the whip in front of the saddle while the whip is held in the forehand position, unless exceptional circumstances prevail Why is it then that the NZTR rules do not specifically prohibit "Using the whip on the flank of the horse;" when they preach to us about what they are doing for animal welfare? It is cruel and not a good look for the industry. NZTR rule: Without limiting the generality of subrule 638(3)(e), in a Flat Race or Jumping Race, a Trial (including jump-outs and/or tests for certification purposes) a Rider must not use his or her whip: (i) forward of the Rider’s horse’s shoulder or in the vicinity of its head; or (ii) using an action that raises the Rider’s arm above shoulder height; or (iii) when the Rider’s horse is out of contention; or (iv) when the Rider’s horse is showing no response; or (v) after passing the winning post; or (vi) in a manner that causes injury to the Rider’s horse; or (vii) when the Rider’s horse is clearly winning; or (viii) when the Rider’s horse has no reasonable prospect of improving or losing its position; or (ix) in a manner where the seam of the flap is the point of contact with the horse, unless the Rider satisfies the Stewards that that was neither deliberate nor reckless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted May 12 Author Share Posted May 12 Further to this, the Australian Veterinary Association came out a year ago saying: "The Australian Veterinary Association has spoken out about the use of whips in equestrian sports, saying the whip must not be used to “influence the result of a competitive event”. In an updated policy, released in December, the AVA said that horse racing codes should “work towards a framework where whip use for encouragement is not condoned”. Has there been a peep on the matter from the NZEVA? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 I think you are flogging a dead horse on this one @curious ! 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 58 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I think you are flogging a dead horse on this one @curious ! Maybe. It's the live ones I am worried about though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted July 27 Author Share Posted July 27 And completely out of business for this girl yet we allow worse every day in racing with nothing evidently being done about it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 Been trying to get someone to whip me 24 times in bed for years now ... secret is you got to pretend to be a horse??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted July 27 Author Share Posted July 27 1 hour ago, Huey said: Been trying to get someone to whip me 24 times in bed for years now ... secret is you got to pretend to be a horse??? and be doing a piaffe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 13 hours ago, curious said: And completely out of business for this girl yet we allow worse every day in racing with nothing evidently being done about it here. So you are suggesting that Dressage should be banned? Charlotte Dujardin (the holder of the whip) has been described as the most dominant rider of her era. The first to hold the complete set of World and Olympic titles. Charlotte Susan Jane Dujardin CBE (born 13 July 1985) is a British dressage rider, equestrian, and writer. A multiple World and Olympic champion, Dujardin has been described as the dominant dressage rider of her era.[3] She held the complete set of available individual elite dressage titles at one point[when?]: the individual Olympic freestyle, World freestyle and Grand Prix Special, World Cup individual dressage and European freestyle, and Grand Prix Special titles. Dujardin was the first rider to hold this complete set of titles at the same time.[4] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 18 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: So you are suggesting that Dressage should be banned? Charlotte Dujardin (the holder of the whip) has been described as the most dominant rider of her era. The first to hold the complete set of World and Olympic titles. Charlotte Susan Jane Dujardin CBE (born 13 July 1985) is a British dressage rider, equestrian, and writer. A multiple World and Olympic champion, Dujardin has been described as the dominant dressage rider of her era.[3] She held the complete set of available individual elite dressage titles at one point[when?]: the individual Olympic freestyle, World freestyle and Grand Prix Special, World Cup individual dressage and European freestyle, and Grand Prix Special titles. Dujardin was the first rider to hold this complete set of titles at the same time.[4] Not sure where you get that idea from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 4 hours ago, Freda said: Not sure where you get that idea from? What banning dressage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 Yeah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 Well if the top Equestrian in the world has to use a whip to train certain disciplines in dressage there isn't much hope if the social licence minority get their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted July 28 Author Share Posted July 28 15 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Well if the top Equestrian in the world has to use a whip to train certain disciplines in dressage there isn't much hope if the social licence minority get their way. Minority? I thought something like 70% of the public opposed the use of whips in horse racing. I have half a dozen people that would race a horse with me if the rules either banned whips or made them illegal to use for encouragement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 17 Author Share Posted September 17 On 13/05/2024 at 2:26 PM, Chief Stipe said: I think you are flogging a dead horse on this one @curious ! I'm pleased to say that the new whip rules about to be released for consultation include prohibition of whip use on the flank and overhand use down the shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 1 hour ago, curious said: I'm pleased to say that the new whip rules about to be released for consultation include prohibition of whip use on the flank and overhand use down the shoulder. Cool there will be a job for @Thomass in the bunker reviewing every horse in every race in High Definition. I doubt the Stipes let alone Joe Punter will notice in real time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 9 hours ago, curious said: I'm pleased to say that the new whip rules about to be released for consultation include prohibition of whip use on the flank and overhand use down the shoulder. A good start. For mine, the problem will be policing [ given that so many have little idea about correct whip use] and in the same vein, rider education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 17 Author Share Posted September 17 19 minutes ago, Freda said: A good start. For mine, the problem will be policing [ given that so many have little idea about correct whip use] and in the same vein, rider education. And sorting penalties which would probably need to allow for post race video review as elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy connolly Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 4 hours ago, Freda said: A good start. For mine, the problem will be policing [ given that so many have little idea about correct whip use] and in the same vein, rider education. Ironical that horses (including those trained by you) are permitted to be domiciled in zoo like conditions and forced to perform the same monotonous routine every day, yet you're preaching to the ignorant on whip use ! The zoo like conditions in which you and many other public trainers train under does far more damage to a horses mind and well-being than a few whip strikes, flank included. Get back into bed with the clown who started this thread, neither of you have a clue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 4 hours ago, curious said: And sorting penalties which would probably need to allow for post race video review as elsewhere. Yeah and that is killing all sports where it was introduced. If you want to take a microscope to localised actions then you are producing more fodder to the woke who want the game ended. BTW that's how we ended up with this Climate Change nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 17 Author Share Posted September 17 I don't agree. Do you think video refs/umpires are a bad thing for rugby and cricket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 I watch a lot of MLB, the home team plays 81 home games, like the NFl, the use the most up-to-date digital cameras etc, now there are so many brilliant slow motion shots, often Action is instantly replayed back! Real Up Close!!!! I Know how a modern younger watching person is going to REACT!!! when they start to see a pattern of Wimp riding up close! A recent jumps race so said that sort of thing! It has happen in our lounge via the 55", young one jumps up and starts yelling Why are the Beating that Horse! all that v's, the older punter who is so more interest in seeing their horse fighting out the finish! just now asking Mrs: No to wimping, (why) the modern pro animal position. (Then, wow) But they should be able to do that Swissing you see the good riders doing!!! (showing them the wimp but not making Any contact!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 18 Author Share Posted September 18 14 minutes ago, Murray Fish said: I watch a lot of MLB, the home team plays 81 home games, like the NFl, the use the most up-to-date digital cameras etc, now there are so many brilliant slow motion shots, often Action is instantly replayed back! Real Up Close!!!! I Know how a modern younger watching person is going to REACT!!! when they start to see a pattern of Wimp riding up close! A recent jumps race so said that sort of thing! It has happen in our lounge via the 55", young one jumps up and starts yelling Why are the Beating that Horse! all that v's, the older punter who is so more interest in seeing their horse fighting out the finish! just now asking Mrs: No to wimping, (why) the modern pro animal position. (Then, wow) But they should be able to do that Swissing you see the good riders doing!!! (showing them the wimp but not making Any contact!) Did a quick survey of a few friends last night. All non-racing people though some have pleasure horse riding experience and/or kids having riding lessons etc. Showed them the finish of the Northern and asked if anything struck them. Here are the responses: I don’t know anything about it. Or what to look for. Is the whipping standard? yes that stands out for me as well Is the white horse at the back ok? The whipping by the front person seems more than necessary. I can’t bear to watch it …it does seem archaic 😢 Ä couple of those would take a share in a horse with me if it were not for this. Yet the response I got to my roadshow question on the matter said: We have not seen a considerable negative impact from the current Rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 18 Author Share Posted September 18 10 hours ago, billy connolly said: Ironical that horses (including those trained by you) are permitted to be domiciled in zoo like conditions and forced to perform the same monotonous routine every day, yet you're preaching to the ignorant on whip use ! The zoo like conditions in which you and many other public trainers train under does far more damage to a horses mind and well-being than a few whip strikes, flank included. Get back into bed with the clown who started this thread, neither of you have a clue. You been drinking again billy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 15 hours ago, curious said: You been drinking again billy? comes across as rather nasty! bitter, gutless as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 16 hours ago, curious said: Yet the response I got to my roadshow question on the matter said: We have not seen a considerable negative impact from the current Rules. sigh, meaning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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