the galah Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 (edited) so the race with the highest turnover tonight, on the win and exotic pools, for both nz tab/entain and tabcorp nsw,was the non win race.The tabcorp pool on the non win was actually over $4000 more than any other race at addington. Like i have said before,its not the class of horse that gets people betting. its got to be the pre race exposure a race gets on sky racing or trackside tv. So the powers to be really have to come up with something that addresses this to harness racings advantage. Its quite amazing the difference in pool sizes just on this one factor. so who makes the calls as to when races are fitted into what timeslots. nz harness racing will not prosper if they are given timeslots that are 2 minutes after an aussie gallops meetings start times,like happened this wednesday. We have been told for a while now that entain was the best partner for the industry,but it is tabcorp nsw who control skyracing coverage. So is it them that come up with the time slots. to me this is a very important subject. Edited May 17 by the galah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 16 hours ago, the galah said: so the race with the highest turnover tonight, on the win and exotic pools, for both nz tab/entain and tabcorp nsw,was the non win race.The tabcorp pool on the non win was actually over $4000 more than any other race at addington. Like i have said before,its not the class of horse that gets people betting. its got to be the pre race exposure a race gets on sky racing or trackside tv. So the powers to be really have to come up with something that addresses this to harness racings advantage. Its quite amazing the difference in pool sizes just on this one factor. so who makes the calls as to when races are fitted into what timeslots. nz harness racing will not prosper if they are given timeslots that are 2 minutes after an aussie gallops meetings start times,like happened this wednesday. We have been told for a while now that entain was the best partner for the industry,but it is tabcorp nsw who control skyracing coverage. So is it them that come up with the time slots. to me this is a very important subject. There are just far too many races in NZ that are just not worth betting into, and tgis will continue unless they can have bigger fields. Entain have not done the TAB or racing any favours by not showing the place divs on Trackside!!!!! They show the win odds tote and fixed which is just a waste of time! Say the fixed win is $8 and the tote is $12 so. You would expect the punters to go the tote seem there is a variance wouldnt you? So someone backs on the tote not knowing what the pool is and then it closes at $6! Punters want to know both the win and place and the tote pool! what is the damn point posting only the win odds when many of the horses have no chance of winning and therefore the punters might prefer to back PLACE????? Just crazy some of the things they have done in the last few months! There has to be some reason to the madness? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted May 18 Author Share Posted May 18 (edited) there is a lot of difffrent components to the puzzle of turnover and youv'e mantioned a couple.that effect nz punters. Somehow i think the number of nz punters betting on the trots is dropping. But the thing is,i can't help but think the viability of the nz harness industry is linked to how much australian punter participation they can get. How else do you explain the turnovers .. There has to be a link between the high turnover races with tabcorp nsw for nz harness, corresponding with the high turnover races on the nz/entain totes.Often they are low class races and often small fields. Manawatu have proved that. it has to be because the australian punters betting into the pools with entain australia that then get commingled with us,are seeing the same sky racing coverage as the tabcorp nsw punters who are betting into their own pools.. After all,we still are getting similar lead in exposure on our trackside channels for nz,yet the pools vary so greatly. australian punters do bet on nz harness,the figures show that,not huge but still very significant to the nz industry. But they do not bet without proper sky racing channel exposure. My theory is there is no transperancy from people at entain and hrnz around this issue,Its a deliberate policy to keep everyone in the dark. And the reason for that is they must have known that when they partnered with entain they were signing away the bargaining rites to ensure adequate coverage and times sllots for nz harness racing that they could have ensured had they gone with tabcorp nsw, as the nz tab's partner. I think theres been a major miscaluation by those in charge of nz racing,especially harness, as to the scale of the impact sky racing coverage,or lack therof,has on profitabilty . i think its a scandel myself that no one ever explains to the hard working committee men who look at their clubs turnovers and say to themselves,well that wasn't too good,or how come that race got such good turnover and that one didn't. keeping everyone in the dark because you don't want light shone on a subject of such importance because all the light would do is show what poor decision making has been made. You can't blame entain. I'm sure that fella dean shannon really does want to help nz harness. But lets not have people believe the bullshit. Entain is a huge global business interested in profit and nz harness is not the priority that for some reason,people in charge are trying to sell. There must be someone at hrnz who has the information of what races are getting lead in time on sky racing and what races are getting next to no coverage. And they must have the data on how it impacts turnovers. But we never hear about it do we,so they have to be covering it up for a reason. people/clubs,whoever should start demanding to know the effects of the time slotsand sky coverage nz harness is being given. Edited May 18 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 (edited) 33 minutes ago, the galah said: there is a lot of difffrent components to the puzzle of turnover and youv'e mantioned a couple.that effect nz punters. Somehow i think the number of nz punters betting on the trots is dropping. But the thing is,i can't help but think the viability of the nz harness industry is linked to how much australian punter participation they can get. How else do you explain the turnovers .. There has to be a link between the high turnover races with tabcorp nsw for nz harness, corresponding with the high turnover races on the nz/entain totes.Often they are low class races and often small fields. Manawatu have proved that. it has to be because the australian punters betting into the pools with entain australia that then get commingled with us,are seeing the same sky racing coverage as the tabcorp nsw punters who are betting into their own pools.. After all,we still are getting similar lead in exposure on our trackside channels for nz,yet the pools vary so greatly. australian punters do bet on nz harness,the figures show that,not huge but still very significant to the nz industry. But they do not bet without proper sky racing channel exposure. My theory is there is no transperancy from people at entain and hrnz around this issue,Its a deliberate policy to keep everyone in the dark. And the reason for that is they must have known that when they partnered with entain they were signing away the bargaining rites to ensure adequate coverage and times sllots for nz harness racing that they could have ensured had they gone with tabcorp nsw, as the nz tab's partner. I think theres been a major miscaluation by those in charge of nz racing,especially harness, as to the scale of the impact sky racing coverage,or lack therof,has on profitabilty . i think its a scandel myself that no one ever explains to the hard working committee men who look at their clubs turnovers and say to themselves,well that wasn't too good,or how come that race got such good turnover and that one didn't. keeping everyone in the dark because you don't want light shone on a subject of such importance because all the light would do is show what poor decision making has been made. You can't blame entain. I'm sure that fella dean shannon really does want to help nz harness. But lets not have people believe the bullshit. Entain is a huge global business interested in profit and nz harness is not the priority that for some reason,people in charge are trying to sell. There must be someone at hrnz who has the information of what races are getting lead in time on sky racing and what races are getting next to no coverage. And they must have the data on how it impacts turnovers. But we never hear about it do we,so they have to be covering it up for a reason. people/clubs,whoever should start demanding to know the effects of the time slotsand sky coverage nz harness is being given. Excellent and accurate posting Galah. The popularity of punters still punting on NZ harness is indeed dropping hugely and NZ harness Clubs should be very worried! There are several reasons for this which I nave mentioned numerous times! I was looking at turnover on meetings at Addington during the week. There were pools on the tote of under $2k when I was looking shortly before the start of races. They arent showing this on Trackside as the turnover on the tote is now absolutely pathetic and this is at Addington the best track in NZ! Time that Tab/Entain actually start listening to their long time customers and allow them to participate more freely or yes things are going to continue to decline!!!!!! They are losing their most loyal clientele and that is not how any business can continue but then again Entain wasnt after harness racing, they were after the Sports betting in NZ for 25 long years. Edited May 18 by Brodie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shab Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 2 hours ago, the galah said: There must be someone at hrnz who has the information of what races are getting lead in time on sky racing and what races are getting next to no coverage. And they must have the data on how it impacts turnovers. But we never hear about it do we,so they have to be covering it up for a reason. New Zealand harness is shown on Sky Racing 2. You can research the coverage for yourself. There a number of sites where you can watch for free like this one https://www.3wehorse.com/live-streaming/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted May 18 Author Share Posted May 18 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shab said: New Zealand harness is shown on Sky Racing 2. You can research the coverage for yourself. There a number of sites where you can watch for free like this one https://www.3wehorse.com/live-streaming/ thanks for your reply. sorry, i have no intention of offending you,but your reply hasn't enlightened me at all. as to live streaming,theres 80 meetings run today that i could bet on with entain from many countries. theres probably somewhere i could live stream the first from Uruguay as well. Then again maybe not. I have an active tab nsw account,yet i have never been able to see the live racing video part on the website as it says i have no access to protected content. their website says access is limited to being in australia. so the obvious question is,if i was in australia could i live stream ournz trackside coverage. You sound like your in aussie,so can you? anyway,even if it were possible,being able to live stream a nz harness race will do next to nothing to encourage nz harness betting,from the australian punters watching the sky racing channels at home or the pub or the tab's. what does interest me is your saying nz harness is on sky racing 2. That does help ,but we need specifics as to the lead in times and what does sky racing 2 prioritise. Tomorrow rangiora is on sky racing 2,but so are 16 other meetings. how do you explain the wednesday addington races last week having win polls averaging over $6,000 per race and this week averaging only just over $2,000. so what i'm saying is its very obvious from tabcorp betting pools that nz harness is getting very inconsistent sky racing coverage. I have seen a 7 horse non win race at manawatu with no form get a win pool turnover of over $10,000 and i have seen several full field quality races at premier meetings hardly reach $1000 turnover. so generalising and saying harness racing is on sky 2 ,well unfortunately it doesn't help. Edited May 18 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 Ones getting so many mixed messages regarding turnover, if it's so important why so many meetings impinging on Sundays and the doubling up of Fridays, yet strangely I've wondered about the southern meetings mostly Saturdays after Easter being lost to gallops yet strangely now moving to Thursdays, must be to maximize turnover, strange thought process by HRNZ indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 And I still believe when Entains trial period is up we may be having similar discussions about the racing industry as we did when covid come along and the TAB bailout , everything seems too good to be true, it's not as if Entain are making massive profits either, time will tell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 18 hours ago, Brodie said: So someone backs on the tote not knowing what the pool is and then it closes at $6! No excuse for not knowing what is in the pool when they bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 18 hours ago, Brodie said: There are just far too many races in NZ that are just not worth betting into, and tgis will continue unless they can have bigger fields. Entain have not done the TAB or racing any favours by not showing the place divs on Trackside!!!!! They show the win odds tote and fixed which is just a waste of time! Say the fixed win is $8 and the tote is $12 so. You would expect the punters to go the tote seem there is a variance wouldnt you? So someone backs on the tote not knowing what the pool is and then it closes at $6! Punters want to know both the win and place and the tote pool! what is the damn point posting only the win odds when many of the horses have no chance of winning and therefore the punters might prefer to back PLACE????? Just crazy some of the things they have done in the last few months! There has to be some reason to the madness? I have an old laptop that I'm sure will still connect to the internet Then you can see the Place odds Brodie I'll give it to you Send me your courier address Mike 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 6 minutes ago, Michael said: I have an old laptop that I'm sure will still connect to the internet Then you can see the Place odds Brodie I'll give it to you Send me your courier address Mike Michael, why do they only show the Win odds? They need to be showing both for obvious reasons! Sorry, don’t accept charity, you be best to donate the laptop to charity! The Trackside presenters used to discuss the place odds, but now they don’t, and I am sure if you asked them, they would not be happy about many of the changes!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 12 minutes ago, Michael said: I have an old laptop that I'm sure will still connect to the internet Then you can see the Place odds Brodie I'll give it to you Send me your courier address Mike Not wishing to side with @Brodie as I often tend to do but he has a very good point. Do we need to sit in front of the TV with our laptop and smart phone in hand to see the odds? Do we need to take the laptop to the Sports Pub that doesn't have the big screen odds on display? I assume that your laptop has a large enough viewport that ALL the odds are displayed? If it doesn't then you might notice that the Fixed Odds Win and Place are the first to disappear from the screen. In my opinion they haven't got the font type and size correct yet and the app especially pitches at a specific viewport that is beyond most of our phones unless of course you are the new Gen with a phablet (a phone near the size of a tablet). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 21 minutes ago, Rangatira said: No excuse for not knowing what is in the pool when they bet. Ranga, they arent showing it on Trackside, which is where the people they are wanting to get interested are viewing! Entain’s racing arm, are very very average at best, Sport’s is where they are more focused! You only have to look at the TAB website for the racing information, it is extremely inaccurate in many parts! The dollars won etc. are in Aud, the comments in horses performances and fixed odds just do not add up!! The comments about where the early speed and racing position is just atrociously bad, that they neednt bother! Updated form etc. is poor, the HRNZ site is far more beneficial! McAnulty and the TAB should never have sold out to a Corporate that are on the downward spiral! They lost nearly $2 billion NZD in the 2023 year, which shows that they are clearly having major issues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 15 hours ago, the galah said: And the reason for that is they must have known that when they partnered with entain they were signing away the bargaining rites to ensure adequate coverage and times sllots for nz harness racing that they could have ensured had they gone with tabcorp nsw, as the nz tab's partner. More to do with politics and lining pockets than actually doing what is best for the punters and racing in general in my opinion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 8 minutes ago, Brodie said: Ranga, they arent showing it on Trackside, which is where the people they are wanting to get interested are viewing! Where do they place their bets ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 For some of the races at Winton yesterday under the comments for each individual horse was No Comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Michael said: I have an old laptop that I'm sure will still connect to the internet Then you can see the Place odds Brodie I'll give it to you Send me your courier address Mike Kindness Golden Kiwi Fish and Chip Chicks legacy alive and kicking. Edited May 18 by Rangatira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 57 minutes ago, Rangatira said: Where do they place their bets ? So they need to be looking on their phones or ipads? Why would they change it from what it was before? Why bother putting up the WIN ODDS then? They are not very professional at all, very Amateur with racing!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 8 minutes ago, Brodie said: So they need to be looking on their phones or ipads? Why would they change it from what it was before? Why bother putting up the WIN ODDS then? They are not very professional at all, very Amateur with racing!!!!! Can bets bet placed on Trackside like they can be or used to be able to be placed via Sky Telly Vision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 1 hour ago, Rangatira said: Can bets bet placed on Trackside like they can be or used to be able to be placed via Sky Telly Vision It's not the point Ranga. Prior to the "upgrade" you could see the place odds. What's the advantage to ENTAIN in not showing them? 90% of the time there is enough screen real estate to show them. I guess it is problematic in a 24 horse field but we haven't seen that since the 1968 Hororata Cup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 Another annoying aspect of the App and the Website is you keep getting logged out. Is there a setting to change that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: It's not the point Ranga. The point I am making is it is now available if you need it. That wasn't always the case before. Seems like finding a way not to is in vogue these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 1 hour ago, Rangatira said: The point I am making is it is now available if you need it. That wasn't always the case before. Seems like finding a way not to is in vogue these days. Ranga are you back on the turps? What on earth are you on about saying that wasnt always the case before? Can you give us all a valid reason why they show only the win odds and not place odds, and how it is any sort of improvement? Decent answer only please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 (edited) The issue I am responding to is there is No excuse for not knowing what is in the pool when they bet. Nothing else Edited May 19 by Rangatira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 12 hours ago, Rangatira said: The issue I am responding to is there is No excuse for not knowing what is in the pool when they bet. Nothing else There is if you havent got a cell phone or computer! It would be far easier for the punter and more profitable for the TAB if the details of the tote pools and PLACE ODDS were shoeing on the screen! They wont do this cos their cheap and far worse set up is coming from Ozzie! Ask the Trackside presenters if they like the new set up without the place odds! It is amateur time now, info is inaccurate, comments are shocking! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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