Does CJC hate owners

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

The CJC are racing tomorrow with the rail out 11 metres. With their next meeting over 7 weeks away why is the rail out so far ?

Because of this, the field sizes are limited and they have 30 horses balloted out.

That Owners, Trainers and Jockeys missing out on a chance of income.

No worries Tim, Owners are not important.

[Freda]

The inside portion has been shaved - I think to get rid of the poa. 

But good point  nevertheless. 

[hesi]

What's wrong with poa?

[Freda]

Ask someone who knows.....?

[Huey]

Why don't they race these meetings somewhere else instead of having race days with the rail out this far, surely the important thing to do is to present a decent product to the punter? 

[Freda]

Just wait till we get the all weather....?

[Newmarket]

9 minutes ago, Huey said:

Why don't they race these meetings somewhere else instead of having race days with the rail out this far, surely the important thing to do is to present a decent product to the punter? 

Maybe decent horses, decent food, decent areas, decent prices would get decent crowds

[Dark Beau]

8 hours ago, hesi said:

What's wrong with poa?

It does not have a deep root structure to hold the tuff together. 

Irigation encourages its growth because the roots are right near the surface. 

By shaving the grass surface right back now, the hot sun will kill it and allow the rye grass to get better established. 

I didn’t know that the Riccarton track had poa in it, as I live in the NI and all I could see was what I saw on TV. 

Now I know why Riccarton chips out all the time. The track is the worst in the country for it. 

Its a combination of a hard pan underneath, poa and too much irrigation, pure and simple. 

[Freda]

There has been a hard pan underneath from the time of its reconstruction,  1998.

Instead of getting excited about an allweather here,  money would be better spent re-doing the existing course proper - strathayr would be lovely - IMO of course.

[hesi]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

There has been a hard pan underneath from the time of its reconstruction,  1998.

Instead of getting excited about an allweather here,  money would be better spent re-doing the existing course proper - strathayr would be lovely - IMO of course.

Well it's in the Messara report, so a Xmas present for you Freda

Riccarton Park – Venue with 23 race meetings in 2017/18. One of the three best racecourse venues in New Zealand. Excellent location in Christchurch. Major training centre. Requires reconstruction of course proper, a synthetic track and some general facility improvements. Racecourse Reserve.

Bearing in mind the so many negative comments we have heard about synthetic tracks, it is hard to comprehend why Messara has placed so much emphasis on them.

Strathayr has stood the test of time(refer comments in the Strathayr thread from their CEO).  Why waste money on synthetic tracks at Cambridge, Awapuni and Riccarton, better to spend the money on Strathayr tracks at the new Greenfields Waikato site(wherever that is), Riccarton, Awapuni, and throw in Ellerslie and Trentham for good measure.

I presume a properly constructed Strathayr track can be used for training.

After reading the so many problems associated with synthetic tracks(yes I do read the other site from time to time), they will end up being the biggest white elephant in NZ racing, a repeat of the betting platform issues

Edited December 6, 2018 by hesi

[hesi]

3 hours ago, Dark Beau said:

It does not have a deep root structure to hold the tuff together. 

Irigation encourages its growth because the roots are right near the surface. 

By shaving the grass surface right back now, the hot sun will kill it and allow the rye grass to get better established. 

I didn’t know that the Riccarton track had poa in it, as I live in the NI and all I could see was what I saw on TV. 

Now I know why Riccarton chips out all the time. The track is the worst in the country for it. 

Its a combination of a hard pan underneath, poa and too much irrigation, pure and simple. 

Thanks

[mardigras]

7 minutes ago, hesi said:

Bearing in mind the so many negative comments we have heard about synthetic tracks, it is hard to comprehend why Meesara has placed so much emphasis on them.

Strathayr has stood the test of time(refer comments in the Strathayr thread from their CEO).  Why waste money on synthetic tracks at Cambridge, Awapuni and Riccarton, better to spend the money on Strathayr tracks at the new Greenfields Waikato site(wherever that is), Riccarton, Awapuni, and throw in Ellerslie and Trentham for good measure.

I presume a properly constructed Strathayr track can be used for training.

Remember, not all Strathayr have been successful. I'm pretty sure Kensington was Strathayr and that was considered a disaster. Here's a couple of snippets. One question I'd be asking is whether there would be any issues in a colder climate in combination with the level of rain. 

From Daily Telegraph. (https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/superracing/peter-robl-gives-a-close-up-take-from-the-saddle-of-randwicks-new-kensington-surface/news-story/1bdb27855ca9423bf43ea207c076051f)

Kensington will give Sydney five major racetracks – along with Randwick, Rosehill, Canterbury and Warwick Farm – and its superior drainage will drastically limit the number of race meetings that will potentially be lost due to inclement weather.

It is also expected to host twilight meetings during the summer months, which can be watched from Royal Randwick’s new $170 million grandstand.

ATC general manager of racing Matt Rudolph said the Kensington track provided an all-weather turf racing solution.

“Having all five ATC tracks back in full operation will allow us to space the scheduling of meetings to enable the best racing surfaces, not just for carnivals but also year round," Rudolph said.

The ATC hopes to boost attendances by opening the gates and offering free entry to all naval and defence personnel from around the world who are docked in Sydney for Naval Week celebrations.

The Kensington 2100m track with its Strathayr surface consists of 40,000 square metres of washed Village Green Kikuyu turf.

Also from Daily Telegraph (https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/superracing/nsw-racing/chris-waller-applauds-atcs-decision-to-rebuild-randwicks-kensington-track/news-story/125d98296d31992573dc6b992f26ebba)

The Kensington track has been a costly failure since it was opened during the spring of 2013 as it soon became apparent the surface could not sustain the pressure of consistent race meetings.

Randwick’s inner-course hosted only 21 race meetings but none since November, 2014, when it was agreed the race surface was not up to standard.

In consultation with Racing NSW, the ATC plans to build a modern and superior drainage system as a major part of the design of the new Kensington track surface with the aim to be back racing there in the summer of 2017-18.

 

[hesi]

This was the reply from Frank Casimaty

He has ceased posting on the Strathayr thread, a response on the Kensington track would have been good

Frank Casimaty

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Posted September 14

This is Frank Casimaty Managing Director StrathAyr. Bill is retired.

I will try and answer your questions as asked.

1. Is there any reason to suggest Strathayr would not work in NZ

StrathAyr Tracks will definitely work in NZ. We have tracks working well in all climates from the tropical climates of Hong Kong and Singapore all the way down to Moonee Valley and Moe in Victoria and Launceston in Tasmania. The only difference is the grass species on top which is selected to best meet the local climate

[mardigras]

5 minutes ago, hesi said:

This was the reply from Frank Casimaty

He has ceased posting on the Strathayr thread, a response on the Kensington track would have been good

I will try and answer your questions as asked.

1. Is there any reason to suggest Strathayr would not work in NZ

StrathAyr Tracks will definitely work in NZ. We have tracks working well in all climates from the tropical climates of Hong Kong and Singapore all the way down to Moonee Valley and Moe in Victoria and Launceston in Tasmania. The only difference is the grass species on top which is selected to best meet the local climate

No problem with the response. I wouldn't call the climate of Moe or MV the same as NZ however. I'm not sure we get many days in the 40s in NZ and the ground temperature in Victoria is going to be higher than it is in NZ.

And Launceston race nearly all meetings from October through to April.

 

[Freda]

3 hours ago, hesi said:

Well it's in the Messara report, so a Xmas present for you Freda

Riccarton Park – Venue with 23 race meetings in 2017/18. One of the three best racecourse venues in New Zealand. Excellent location in Christchurch. Major training centre. Requires reconstruction of course proper, a synthetic track and some general facility improvements. Racecourse Reserve.

Bearing in mind the so many negative comments we have heard about synthetic tracks, it is hard to comprehend why Messara has placed so much emphasis on them.

Strathayr has stood the test of time(refer comments in the Strathayr thread from their CEO).  Why waste money on synthetic tracks at Cambridge, Awapuni and Riccarton, better to spend the money on Strathayr tracks at the new Greenfields Waikato site(wherever that is), Riccarton, Awapuni, and throw in Ellerslie and Trentham for good measure.

I presume a properly constructed Strathayr track can be used for training.

After reading the so many problems associated with synthetic tracks(yes I do read the other site from time to time), they will end up being the biggest white elephant in NZ racing, a repeat of the betting platform issues

I don't think Strathayr is considered  a 'training' track.

One concern I have - subjective of course - is that if an allweather is installed,  the likelihood is that an excellent plough training track,  as well as some if not all of the grass gallops may also go west.

If the new track surface is ok, well and good,  I guess.

But if they don't get it right - and how could anyone have confidence that they will -  there go some of the best training facilities .    With difficulty supplying adequate water to inside grass gallops,  training would be difficult to say the least in Canterbury's summer months.

[hesi]

8 hours ago, Freda said:

I don't think Strathayr is considered  a 'training' track.

One concern I have - subjective of course - is that if an allweather is installed,  the likelihood is that an excellent plough training track,  as well as some if not all of the grass gallops may also go west.

If the new track surface is ok, well and good,  I guess.

But if they don't get it right - and how could anyone have confidence that they will -  there go some of the best training facilities .    With difficulty supplying adequate water to inside grass gallops,  training would be difficult to say the least in Canterbury's summer months.

Isn't most of the training and trials done on grass tracks, the rationale for a synthetic at Cambridge being to allow horses to be prepared for racing and sale in Aus, and not be hindered by boggy winter grass tracks.

If that is the case??, then why can't a Strathayr be considered as a training track, it is after all just a very superior grass track

[Freda]

I stand to be corrected.....but I can't see the hoi polloi being allowed to charge all over a strathayr track.

[hesi]

Hoi polloi??

Strathayr is meant to be robust, not like one of your manicured fescue/brown top lawns in Shaky city

[Turny]

It's a shithole - nothing will change it

[Freda]

10 hours ago, hesi said:

Isn't most of the training and trials done on grass tracks, the rationale for a synthetic at Cambridge being to allow horses to be prepared for racing and sale in Aus, and not be hindered by boggy winter grass tracks.

If that is the case??, then why can't a Strathayr be considered as a training track, it is after all just a very superior grass track

Superior it sure is - but,  again,  I don't think DAILY hammering is in the ideal operation category.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Freda

[Freda]

10 hours ago, hesi said:

Hoi polloi??

Strathayr is meant to be robust, not like one of your manicured fescue/brown top lawns in Shaky city

If fescue/browntop with a bit of nui added was still extant,  maybe there would be some cushion in the turf...there isn't any now with the high-tech stuff in use,  and the ground has to be watered to give some ease.

[Chief Stipe]

Freda is correct.  It is very unlikely that she would be allowed to gallop her team on a new track regularly.  Even a Strahayr track couldn't sustain continual high use.  They, like any track, have a limited life span before requiring renovation.

Does anyone see any club being able to make enough income to maintain and eventually renovate a Strathayr?  Let alone maintain and renovate all the other infrastructure required to run a modern racing complex?

[hesi]

So 30 mil on 3 synthetic tracks, are really just to improve training tracks at Riccarton, Awapuni and Cambridge, where there are no facilities for racing anyway

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Synthetic tracks will not get Owners investing or reinvesting in this Industry.

Stake money increase will.

[Chief Stipe]

12 hours ago, TIME FOR CHANGE said:

Synthetic tracks will not get Owners investing or reinvesting in this Industry.

Stake money increase will.

A redistribution of the current stake money would help.  Our stakes structure shouldn't be tiered nor have as much at the top end.