Just shows you how screwed the Pattern is: Only five starters in the time honoured Wakefield Challenge Stakes!

[Chief Stipe]

Only 5 starters today in the time honoured Wakefield Challenge Stakes 2024.

Some very good two year olds have won this race in the past.

One of  them probably our best in Our Maizcay.

1978 Tang

1980  Glamour Bay

1981  Bound To Honour

1982  Romantic Bay

1993  Silver Chalice

1995  Our Maizcay

1998  Happyanunoit

2001  Vinaka

2002  Danroad

2003  Maroofity

2004  Kapsdan

2005  Wahid

2010  Jimmy Choux

 

[Huey]

Another Tasmania of racing,  all 5 by Aus based Sires as well. 

[Doomed]

Hasn't the race been moved around a lot in recent years? Never used to be a Manawatu race either.  Surely can't stay as group 2. Terrible field for $175,000. 2yo racing is so badly organised in the CD. Meanwhile the poor bloody South Island gets no 2yo racing for two months mid summer. 

Still, I suppose we must be doing well, stakes look ok. I suppose if you judge how well we are going based on stakes rather than the quality and quantity of fields, then things have never been better.

[Huey]

Arguably a better field at last Trentham meet.

[Murray Fish]

and only ONE male horse in... wow!

[Wingman]

Mid Eighties to 2015 raced in March at Trentham over 1200m and was always a natural lead in to the Manawatu Sires Produce. Since 2015 moved to December and distance reduced to 1100m and as one can plainly see , is now no longer a quality race 

[curious]

16 minutes ago, Wingman said:

Mid Eighties to 2015 raced in March at Trentham over 1200m and was always a natural lead in to the Manawatu Sires Produce. Since 2015 moved to December and distance reduced to 1100m and as one can plainly see , is now no longer a quality race 

Last year's winner did go on to win the 1000 guineas.

[Wingman]

That is a fine piece of rebuttal Curious. With that concession I do still think it is not the race it was. I have always liked the seasonal flow and consistency of time honoured races but to quote Mr Fish; 'SIGH' ,that is a thing of the past in the land of the long white cloud.

[Huey]

46 minutes ago, curious said:

Last year's winner did go on to win the 1000 guineas.

Which is debately also screwed.

[Doomed]

We effectively now seem to have split the 2yos and 3yos into two tiers each. Based on this year's results so far the better ones work through the traditional pattern and aim for Australian targets eventually, while those who are eligible for the sweepstakes and slot races take a different path and just aim to pick up a maiden race somewhere without having to travel far. Actually, they don't even need to pick up a maiden race really. Nothing to stop a slot holder starting a maiden in the kiwi thing.

Certainly a whole new world. Some people think it's wonderful so who am I to disagree.

[Murray Fish]

18 hours ago, Doomed said:

Certainly a whole new world

(wearing a punters hat!) hence: the needed to recalibrate and see what possible betting options their might be! 

Personally, my fav race on the AU/NZ calendar would now be The Everest, reason being!! 'we' get to see so much of all the horses in the build up to the race!  This year there was Massive coverage, if you wanted to find it! Sigh, now comparing how the nz 'marketers' of the nz race go about their business of propagating for the race?  Down this way Etain and ODT have been working hard, not to sure how much any of the bigger media players have nowadays for things racing!  as you have said, a whole new world! 

[Huey]

6 hours ago, Murray Fish said:

(wearing a punters hat!) hence: the needed to recalibrate and see what possible betting options their might be! 

Personally, my fav race on the AU/NZ calendar would now be The Everest, reason being!! 'we' get to see so much of all the horses in the build up to the race!  This year there was Massive coverage, if you wanted to find it! Sigh, now comparing how the nz 'marketers' of the nz race go about their business of propagating for the race?  Down this way Etain and ODT have been working hard, not to sure how much any of the bigger media players have nowadays for things racing!  as you have said, a whole new world! 

The NZB Kiwi or Funny trophy race whatever it's called is appearing to be an absolute yawn fest, any race dependent on the prize money alone to focus most interest in it , is going to struggle to capture the imagination. 

The beauty of the Everest as you have so succinctly put it is you get to know the horses & can follow their path there, this NZB kiwi half of us don't have a clue who is going there. Not to mention the Everest are the Superstars of the sport.

[Doomed]

5 minutes ago, Huey said:

The NZB Kiwi or Funny trophy race whatever it's called is appearing to be an absolute yawn fest, any race dependent on the prize money alone to focus most interest in it , is going to struggle to capture the imagination. 

The beauty of the Everest as you have so succinctly put it is you get to know the horses & can follow their path there, this NZB kiwi half of us don't have a clue who is going there. Not to mention the Everest are the Superstars of the sport.

Surely a bit harsh Huey. We have a 3rd placegetter from the Guineas and a maiden winner locked in so far. I can't remember their actual names, but you can feel the excitement building by the minute. It wouldn't surprise me if there's a big announcement in a few days that a maiden winner from Taranaki is next to be confirmed.

[curious]

4 hours ago, Doomed said:

We have a 3rd placegetter from the Guineas and a maiden winner locked in so far. I can't remember their actual names, but you can feel the excitement building by the minute.

You have to remember that there are some very good judges of equine potential involved here.

[Chief Stipe]

8 hours ago, Huey said:

The NZB Kiwi or Funny trophy race whatever it's called is appearing to be an absolute yawn fest, any race dependent on the prize money alone to focus most interest in it , is going to struggle to capture the imagination. 

The beauty of the Everest as you have so succinctly put it is you get to know the horses & can follow their path there, this NZB kiwi half of us don't have a clue who is going there. Not to mention the Everest are the Superstars of the sport.

The only positive of The Everest is every horse is eligible to race it even though the best are both selected due to Slot Holder bias.

The Kiwi B eligibility rules and timing and the lack of black type eliminates the best horses from racing.  Many of those have a big following.

[curious]

14 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

The Kiwi B eligibility rules and timing and the lack of black type eliminates the best horses from racing.  Many of those have a big following.

It has black type.

Listed (Restricted)

Edited Sunday at 06:40 PM by curious

[Chief Stipe]

15 minutes ago, curious said:

It has black type.

Listed (Restricted)

Do you really consider that is the black type that anyone with a serious horse would choose to go after when there Grp race options elsewhere?

[Special Agent]

23 hours ago, Huey said:

The NZB Kiwi or Funny trophy race whatever it's called is appearing to be an absolute yawn fest, any race dependent on the prize money alone to focus most interest in it , is going to struggle to capture the imagination. 

 

These novelty races really are messing with New Zealand racing, particularly with history and tradition.

Has anyone tabled a contingency plan for if/when the Entain deal blows apart?

I'm only seeing money thrown at some races.  What clubs and individuals are coming up with innovations to maintain and bolster field numbers and quality across the board?

Edited yesterday at 09:22 AM by Special Agent

[Huey]

3 hours ago, Special Agent said:

These novelty races really are messing with New Zealand racing, particularly with history and tradition.

Has anyone tabled a contingency plan for if/when the Entain deal blows apart?

I'm only seeing money thrown at some races.  What clubs and individuals are coming up with innovations to maintain and bolster field numbers and quality across the board?

That's a good point, one can see one helluva a mess should they pull out.

[Freda]

7 hours ago, Special Agent said:

These novelty races really are messing with New Zealand racing, particularly with history and tradition.

Has anyone tabled a contingency plan for if/when the Entain deal blows apart?

I'm only seeing money thrown at some races.  What clubs and individuals are coming up with innovations to maintain and bolster field numbers and quality across the board?

That's a thought I've had too.

Nothing is forever, and if Entain keeps getting in the proverbial,  they may well divest themselves of a non- performer.

NZTR needs to seriously address the programming/ handicapping issues and take note of area-specific field sizes.

 

 

[Doomed]

I do wonder about the whole funding model. If it is uneconomical to add an extra 9th race with 14 starters for $18,500 at a SI meeting, but acceptable to continually run 5 and 6 horse fields in the NI for $40,000 then obviously turnover is only a minor component of the funding model.

 

[Chief Stipe]

6 hours ago, Freda said:

That's a thought I've had too.

Nothing is forever, and if Entain keeps getting in the proverbial,  they may well divest themselves of a non- performer.

NZTR needs to seriously address the programming/ handicapping issues and take note of area-specific field sizes.

 

That should be the focus of every stakeholder.  Rather than being distracted by the woke issues the focus should be on the industry being financially viable and strong.  That is the biggest reason Greyhounds succumbed - they didn't have enough revenue to fix ANY issues nor fight the fight against an obsessed minority who want to end ALL RACING.  

Whether whips are used or strikes are counted correctly is not at the forefront in the minds of stakeholders that have significant skin in the game.  The issues are getting a start for their horse, having a safe track to train and race on and generally protecting their investment.  If the industry can maintain financial strength at an individual and national level then other issues can be fought for or against.  

[curious]

25 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

That should be the focus of every stakeholder.  Rather than being distracted by the woke issues the focus should be on the industry being financially viable and strong.  That is the biggest reason Greyhounds succumbed - they didn't have enough revenue to fix ANY issues nor fight the fight against an obsessed minority who want to end ALL RACING.  

Whether whips are used or strikes are counted correctly is not at the forefront in the minds of stakeholders that have significant skin in the game.  The issues are getting a start for their horse, having a safe track to train and race on and generally protecting their investment.  If the industry can maintain financial strength at an individual and national level then other issues can be fought for or against.  

Yes. The focus should definitely be financial viability and sustainability but I believe that social acceptability is the number one factor in achieving that. Winfried Engelbrecht-Bresges among others agrees with me.

[Special Agent]

9 hours ago, Freda said:

NZTR needs to seriously address the programming/ handicapping issues and take note of area-specific field sizes.

 

 

Just on this, in and around times of Covid the programming committees met on Zoom.  This was hardly ideal.  I remember a trainer representative telling me how difficult it was working through the races and meetings whilst juggling spreadsheets, and then the focus moving onto the next meeting before everyone had fully digested and discussed the previous.

Does anyone know if these meetings are now in person in all regions?

[Huey]

Like most things In nzracing, a significant few have a huge influence over matters of programming whether good for the industry or not.