Just shows you how screwed the Pattern is: Only five starters in the time honoured Wakefield Challenge Stakes!

[Murray Fish]

43 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Dead Cat Bounce !

ouch...

[TAB For Ever]

On 12/28/2024 at 2:16 PM, Doomed said:

I note after acceptances the Rich Hill has an 89 rated top weight. How on earth does that race hold Group 2 status? The Timaru Cup a 96 topweight and three rated in the 90s. Even the Kurow Cup has a rating 100 top weight that has won $2.5m.

I think your have spotted correctly Doomed.....the time honoured 'big mile' at Auckland, was it at one tme the George Adams ? , is currently a Group 2 but indeed it has attracted a very poor field quality/ratings wise and as it has been on an alert in recent years surely a warning will result.

A big influence in this would be the proximity of the race to the Boxing Day group 1 [2000m] and next weeks Group 1 mile at Trentham worth $500k and put forward a week. You would have noted that the Trentham Group 1 mile has attracted most of the top gallopers in NZ. In fact the Rich Hill has attracted 2nd and 3rd tier horses and the few nominated for Trentham are ranked about 40th and worse so will be hoping for a win to make the field.

The Rich hill is being run on a big day and the good stake is justified but another alert/warning seems certain IMO. Of course when the calendar was drawn up there was no way they could have known the race would have been overlooked by many.

Ellerslie actually has several of its races under alert/warning so are not as protected as you seem to infer.

The ratings in the South Island don't seem to move much.....obviously the good stakes there boost them . Northern horses are certainly going south regularly now that Stakes are similar !.

I'd suggest to you ,as a huge advocate of South Island racing that the South has become the dumping ground for Northern horses....many slow ones.

You continue to extol the virtues of Timaru in particular when clearly they have deteriorated significantly since the heady days of Phar Lap and Grey WAy. You did the same last year when the Xmas Timaru Cup meeting was held. They used to have two Xmas/New Years days , a lot more meetings including Jumping etc plus they share the facility with Harness. It's a shame !

But sadly they have sat by for decades ....they lucky to hold that day..... Kurow , Kumara , Central Otago seem to perform much better in crowd size ,betting numbers etc and Ashburton seems to advanced their facilities / trial venue etc .And left them in the dust .

Did you attend Timaru ? Kurow ?....how was it ?

[Doomed]

1 hour ago, TAB For Ever said:

I think your have spotted correctly Doomed.....the time honoured 'big mile' at Auckland, was it at one tme the George Adams ? , is currently a Group 2 but indeed it has attracted a very poor field quality/ratings wise and as it has been on an alert in recent years surely a warning will result.

A big influence in this would be the proximity of the race to the Boxing Day group 1 [2000m] and next weeks Group 1 mile at Trentham worth $500k and put forward a week. You would have noted that the Trentham Group 1 mile has attracted most of the top gallopers in NZ. In fact the Rich Hill has attracted 2nd and 3rd tier horses and the few nominated for Trentham are ranked about 40th and worse so will be hoping for a win to make the field.

The Rich hill is being run on a big day and the good stake is justified but another alert/warning seems certain IMO. Of course when the calendar was drawn up there was no way they could have known the race would have been overlooked by many.

Ellerslie actually has several of its races under alert/warning so are not as protected as you seem to infer.

The ratings in the South Island don't seem to move much.....obviously the good stakes there boost them . Northern horses are certainly going south regularly now that Stakes are similar !.

I'd suggest to you ,as a huge advocate of South Island racing that the South has become the dumping ground for Northern horses....many slow ones.

You continue to extol the virtues of Timaru in particular when clearly they have deteriorated significantly since the heady days of Phar Lap and Grey WAy. You did the same last year when the Xmas Timaru Cup meeting was held. They used to have two Xmas/New Years days , a lot more meetings including Jumping etc plus they share the facility with Harness. It's a shame !

But sadly they have sat by for decades ....they lucky to hold that day..... Kurow , Kumara , Central Otago seem to perform much better in crowd size ,betting numbers etc and Ashburton seems to advanced their facilities / trial venue etc .And left them in the dust .

Did you attend Timaru ? Kurow ?....how was it ?

Thank you for those extensive comments TAB.

I'm not sure what the Rich Hill used to be called. The George Adams used to be at Trentham. I suppose there could have been one at Auckland as well.

Lots of name changes these days. I note Wgtn has a brand new group 3 Phar Lap Trophy this weekend. I suppose it is the old Anniversary. And on the subject of ratings, only one rated above 86 in that Wgtn race and that's a 91. Yet another race that must be considered lucky to have black type compared to the Timaru Cup.

You make a good point about Auckland having a lot of races under warnings. They seem to have given up on building up their own races and now are concentrating on grabbing established Group 1s from other clubs. Each time they do that of course one or more of their own races seem to suffer.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, TAB For Ever said:

You continue to extol the virtues of Timaru in particular when clearly they have deteriorated significantly since the heady days of Phar Lap and Grey WAy.

I'm not sure Phar Lap ever raced at Timaru.

[Doomed]

17 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm not sure Phar Lap ever raced at Timaru.

He probably would have struggled to win a Timaru Cup anyhow. I think even Grey Way had about 5 goes before he finally won it.

[Gammalite]

16 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm not sure Phar Lap ever raced at Timaru.

would of been safer than Mexico if he did  . fancy going all that way nearly 100 years ago. what could go wrong. 

[TAB For Ever]

37 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm not sure Phar Lap ever raced at Timaru.

He must have passed thru or something , i think the place named after him and he has as statue there !

Grey Way only raced there 7 x times out of  159 starts !

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

He must have passed thru or something , i think the place named after him and he has as statue there !

Grey Way only raced there 7 x times out of  159 starts !

Timaru was named after a cabbage tree.

[curious]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Timaru was named after a cabbage tree.

A shady one.

[TAB For Ever]

9 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Timaru was named after a cabbage tree.

Seems like you know a lot about cabbages !

[Doomed]

10 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

He must have passed thru or something , i think the place named after him and he has as statue there !

Grey Way only raced there 7 x times out of  159 starts !

Phar Lap was born across the road from the raceway, hence its naming.

[Chief Stipe]

36 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Seems like you know a lot about cabbages !

Sorry I don't know you at all.  I was just pointing out that sometimes there is no real reason for a particular name.  But I imagine there was a shady (maru) cabbage tree (ti) in Timaru somewhere.

[Gammalite]

10 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

He must have passed thru or something , i think the place named after him and he has as statue there !

Grey Way only raced there 7 x times out of  159 starts !

What a great bit of sculpting .  the lady did a wonderful job that did it.

What's that in the Background ? Southern Alps?. I thought Timaru was on the East Coast though 🤔 .

 

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

What's that in the Background ? Southern Alps?. I thought Timaru was on the East Coast though 🤔 .

Geez @Gammalite a typical Australian only used to big skies.

You can see the Southern Alps from both the West Coast AND East Coast.

[Doomed]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Geez @Gammalite a typical Australian only used to big skies.

You can see the Southern Alps from both the West Coast AND East Coast.

The South Island is only about 200ks across Gamma. Its about the same as driving from Brisbane to Dalby or from the Gold Coast to the Sunshine Coast.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Doomed said:

The South Island is only about 200ks across Gamma. Its about the same as driving from Brisbane to Dalby or from the Gold Coast to the Sunshine Coast.

If you measure the distance from each Coast to the Southern Alps it is a lot less than 100kms.  From Timaru (East Coast) about 60km.  From Hokitika (West Coast) about 20Km.

[Gammalite]

15 minutes ago, Doomed said:

The South Island is only about 200ks across Gamma. Its about the same as driving from Brisbane to Dalby or from the Gold Coast to the Sunshine Coast.

It sort of seems wider when you're looking at a map lol. 🤣.

Bit different to Queensland then lol. 😂 Once you go past Dalby heading west you can go in a near straight line for 700km and then you're still only Half-way to the Northern Territory Border . and on the way have only passed a few roo's , an emu or 2 , and some kiwi tourists that had run out of petrol going for a 'quick wee drive' between towns.  😋

[Chief Stipe]

26 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

It sort of seems wider when you're looking at a map lol. 🤣.

Bit different to Queensland then lol. 😂 Once you go past Dalby heading west you can go in a near straight line for 700km and then you're still only Half-way to the Northern Territory Border . and on the way have only passed a few roo's , an emu or 2 , and some kiwi tourists that had run out of petrol going for a 'quick wee drive' between towns.  😋

Yeah but look up and the starry sky is amazing.  Did that on the Nullabor.

[Special Agent]

13 hours ago, Doomed said:

You make a good point about Auckland having a lot of races under warnings. They seem to have given up on building up their own races and now are concentrating on grabbing established Group 1s from other clubs. Each time they do that of course one or more of their own races seem to suffer.

Yes, this practice seems to be acceptable.  I wonder if clubs further south did this, it would be okay.  Who would have thought group races were a tradeable commodity.

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

Yes, this practice seems to be acceptable.  I wonder if clubs further south did this, it would be okay.  Who would have thought group races were a tradeable commodity.

Why wouldn't they be tradeable?  When Clubs have failed to invest in their tracks and the risk of a meeting being abandoned has risen what other options are available but to move them?

[Special Agent]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why wouldn't they be tradeable?  When Clubs have failed to invest in their tracks and the risk of a meeting being abandoned has risen what other options are available but to move them?

Do you think this applies to the Otaki FFA for example?

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

Do you think this applies to the Otaki FFA for example?

The race or the track?  I've heard many first hand reports about the state of the track.

[Special Agent]

22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

The race or the track?  I've heard many first hand reports about the state of the track.

Both.  Wondered what thoughts were on the moving of that race.

[Doomed]

I wonder how people think the new super dooper day in March at Ellerslie will go. I'm sure TAB4Ever will have an informed opinion.

Derby Day/Cup Day/Bonecrusher Day, I suppose now slot day. Quite sad how easy identifiers like Derby Day and Cup Day have gone to be replaced by slot day. 

4 Group 1s, 1 Group 2, 2 Group 3s and a listed race.

The worry must be whether we have enough top class horses to go around. Traditionally several of these races would have been on different days and the best horses might have raced in two or even three of the races. It probably means the best 3yos are unlikely to race at WFA much this season as they have 3 options against their own age on just this one day. The fillies and mares race might suffer if the top mares go to the Bonecrusher.

It is all well and good to introduce massive stakes increases, but there are still only so many high class horses to go around.

Certainly great stakes for the top horses. The question probably is whether it is the best way to distribute stakes money. It will also be interesting to see whether the people who oversee the black type races are brave enough to demote poor performing races regardless of high stakes.

 

 

[TAB For Ever]

8 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I wonder how people think the new super dooper day in March at Ellerslie will go. I'm sure TAB4Ever will have an informed opinion.

Derby Day/Cup Day/Bonecrusher Day, I suppose now slot day. Quite sad how easy identifiers like Derby Day and Cup Day have gone to be replaced by slot day. 

4 Group 1s, 1 Group 2, 2 Group 3s and a listed race.

The worry must be whether we have enough top class horses to go around. Traditionally several of these races would have been on different days and the best horses might have raced in two or even three of the races. It probably means the best 3yos are unlikely to race at WFA much this season as they have 3 options against their own age on just this one day. The fillies and mares race might suffer if the top mares go to the Bonecrusher.

It is all well and good to introduce massive stakes increases, but there are still only so many high class horses to go around.

Certainly great stakes for the top horses. The question probably is whether it is the best way to distribute stakes money. It will also be interesting to see whether the people who oversee the black type races are brave enough to demote poor performing races regardless of high stakes.

 

 

Well Doomed , I know one thing...I'll enjoy the day ,if it is half as good as Karaka Day then it will be excellent !

Best horses available , a lot of good jockeys , a step up from the usual 'run of mill' day . 

I really enjoy the traditional big days , but often there are some races of little interest like maiden races etc [ Riccarton]

The best day IMO is Flemington Derby Day with several group races......this new day will be NZ's equivalent of this.

Not to be missed.....get there Doomed, may not impress you as much as your Jumps day at Woodville but the ATR will be trying.

Get there !...and report back !