$65,000 Ellerslie farce

[curious]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

The last SI trials were 27 November 2024 and not one 2yr old went round!  So what do you expect?

Prior to that only 3 went round at the trials on 7 November 2024.  

Why would you trial them, if there's no races for them?

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, curious said:

Why would you trial them, if there's no races for them?

Then why did 3 trial?  Isn't it an issue for the South Island Trainers to sort out? 

How many do you expect to line up on 25 January? 

[curious]

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I take it you can read @Freda 's mind?

How is the process different?  

Don't know that I can either but I guess the apparent difference is that any race in the SI with only 4 acceptors or less has been deleted.

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, curious said:

Don't know that I can either but I guess the apparent difference is that any race in the SI with only 4 acceptors or less has been deleted.

By whom?

I see there was only 6 starters in the Reefton Cup.  Arguably only four went round.

[curious]

11 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

By whom?

I see there was only 6 starters in the Reefton Cup.  Arguably only four went round.

By NZTR and the club concerned. I said acceptors, not starters. There were 8 for the Reefton Cup.

[Doomed]

17 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Then why did 3 trial?  Isn't it an issue for the South Island Trainers to sort out? 

How many do you expect to line up on 25 January? 

I imagine the 3 trialled to see if they were good enough to race on the middle day of Cup Week.

They only need 4 to accept to have a race.

[Doomed]

15 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

By whom?

I see there was only 6 starters in the Reefton Cup.  Arguably only four went round.

Only 6 in the first at Tauranga today. It would be virtually impossible to get a maiden race with six starters in the south.

[curious]

A few have had jumpouts at Rangiora too and maybe the same further south.

[Doomed]

Two of the three southern 2yo starters at Ellerslie and Trentham so far this season have come from Southland. Southland has ONE 2yo race all season, in April.  Do you think someone is missing something there?

[Huey]

A 3 horse field off 4 acceptors in a 2yo race in NP. A 5 horse field at Otaki I. 2yos & SI gets next to nothing. 

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

Only 6 in the first at Tauranga today. It would be virtually impossible to get a maiden race with six starters in the south.

Whose fault is that?

8 minutes ago, Huey said:

A 3 horse field off 4 acceptors in a 2yo race in NP. A 5 horse field at Otaki I. 2yos & SI gets next to nothing. 

Again whose fault is that?

From what I've seen the South Island Trainers act like a disorganised rabble driven only by self-interest.

Get on the doorstep of @Pitman and Tim Mills and make demands.  You'll probably find it isn't so much a conspiracy more like a cock up!

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

By NZTR and the club concerned.

So the Club has a big influence on whether a race goes ahead or not?

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

Only 6 in the first at Tauranga today. It would be virtually impossible to get a maiden race with six starters in the south.

To quote @curious 6 starters or acceptors?

There are ways around it.  Nominate and accept with more horses.  Put the hat around and sponsor the race or subsidise the Clubs contribution.  Used to happen all the time when you had a useful gelding you wanted to flick to Hong Kong.

[Doomed]

15 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Whose fault is that?

Again whose fault is that?

From what I've seen the South Island Trainers act like a disorganised rabble driven only by self-interest.

Get on the doorstep of @Pitman and Tim Mills and make demands.  You'll probably find it isn't so much a conspiracy more like a cock up!

No one is arguing it isn't a cock up.

I have never believed, nor suggested, it is a conspiracy. You have to be reasonably bright to pull off a conspiracy

[Doomed]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

To quote @curious 6 starters or acceptors?

There are ways around it.  Nominate and accept with more horses.  Put the hat around and sponsor the race or subsidise the Clubs contribution.  Used to happen all the time when you had a useful gelding you wanted to flick to Hong Kong.

That is the whole point. The four trainers at Ellerslie knew the race would go off regardless of how many starters there were. They knew none of them had to enter an extra horse to get it off the ground.

In Southland the Tylers would put in a couple of extras if a race was suspect. I have seen Rogerson with 7 acceptors in an 8 horse field to make sure the race happens.

[curious]

18 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

So the Club has a big influence on whether a race goes ahead or not?

Yes. It's their race and their decision given NZTR funding approval.

[curious]

29 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Whose fault is that?

Again whose fault is that?

From what I've seen the South Island Trainers act like a disorganised rabble driven only by self-interest.

Get on the doorstep of @Pitman and Tim Mills and make demands.  You'll probably find it isn't so much a conspiracy more like a cock up!

Unfortunately it's not up to Pitty and Mills. They (the programming committee) have tried to get additional Canterbury feature meetings during the 10 week hiatus. NZTR won't fund them. They clearly prefer to fund 4 horse 65k races at Ellerslie. Not many trainers down here have an Orchestral either to sway anybody to do so. If they leave noms open, trainers will toss in a few extra to make it a goer even if most of them are then scratched. However, often the races are deleted at nom time if only 4.

[Chief Stipe]

17 minutes ago, curious said:

Unfortunately it's not up to Pitty and Mills. They (the programming committee) have tried to get additional Canterbury feature meetings during the 10 week hiatus. NZTR won't fund them. They clearly prefer to fund 4 horse 65k races at Ellerslie. Not many trainers down here have an Orchestral either to sway anybody to do so. If they leave noms open, trainers will toss in a few extra to make it a goer even if most of them are then scratched. However, often the races are deleted at nom time if only 4.

So play the game and bolster the nominations.  I know a reasonably good horse who won its maiden race which had 6 acceptors and only 3 raced.

So does NZTR delete the races or the Club?

Bear in mind NZTR are over the barrel a bit with Ellerslie as aren't they bolstering the stakes?

[Doomed]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

So play the game and bolster the nominations.  I know a reasonably good horse who won its maiden race which had 6 acceptors and only 3 raced.

So does NZTR delete the races or the Club?

Bear in mind NZTR are over the barrel a bit with Ellerslie as aren't they bolstering the stakes?

You don't really get the point Chief. In the SI the races aren't programmed in the first place. It is not a matter of boosting nominations.

[curious]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Bear in mind NZTR are over the barrel a bit with Ellerslie as aren't they bolstering the stakes?

I don't see what that has to do with anything. Any club can do that but Ellerslie is obviously in a better financial situation than most to do so. The NZTR contribution from their stakes distribution is the same. This however seems to be an additional race, not part of the original programme committee approval, with funding beyond what is standard for such a race. It would be unseemly if that extra funding is coming from the NZTR stakes funding pool in preference to other uses.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

You don't really get the point Chief. In the SI the races aren't programmed in the first place. It is not a matter of boosting nominations.

Then where are the South Island Trainers screaming from the rooftops?  The SI Leading Trainers seem to to have lost their tongues.  I guess they get what they wish for.

[Doomed]

12 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Then where are the South Island Trainers screaming from the rooftops?  The SI Leading Trainers seem to to have lost their tongues.  I guess they get what they wish for.

I agree. That surprises me as well. I guess many of them just don't have any sort of overview. They appear to be quite content, so who are we to bother.

[Wingman]

Trainers do not rock the boat. They do get pissed off but have to work gently to get any traction. Think of it as if you were working for a company/corporation, how long would you last if you were continually saying 'the strategic overview and tactics are beyond flawed. Owners heavily invested in the industry work with their trainers to maximise opportunity based on this seasons calendar. That then leaves us with who? to challenge the muppets, appointed by past muppets, who produce the calendar.

[Special Agent]

This is a stupid conversation.  Why are you blaming the south island trainers?

You all need to go and sit in on some of these meetings.  You have no idea.

If NZTR are not programming suitable races what is the point trialling to be all dressed up with nowhere to go.

Just like Kevin Stott said about jockeys not being listened to, do you think the trainers fare any better?

Every group of administrators that come along are more stupid and more ignorant and arrogant than the last.  Freda keeps pointing out the disconnect.