Another programming cockup.

[mikeynz]

Winton Thursday, 2 2yo races scheduled, 2 noms in total, races canned, at least Wyndham have races with both sexes  combined programmed for next month, for what I'm seeing it's got worse since they changed the season to Jan 1 or is it just me thinking that ?

Add to that Winton have a 70000 2yo fillies race in April, for more than likely half a dozen runners if they are lucky, this ain't good business sense.

And of course one or two early birds will cream it, but as I've said before best to make hay while the sun shines, it can't be sustainable.

Edited February 24 by mikeynz

[Brodie]

4 hours ago, mikeynz said:

Winton Thursday, 2 2yo races scheduled, 2 noms in total, races canned, at least Wyndham have races with both sexes  combined programmed for next month, for what I'm seeing it's got worse since they changed the season to Jan 1 or is it just me thinking that ?

Add to that Winton have a 70000 2yo fillies race in April, for more than likely half a dozen runners if they are lucky, this ain't good business sense.

And of course one or two early birds will cream it, but as I've said before best to make hay while the sun shines, it can't be sustainable.

Addington had 2 noms for Friday’s meeting and was canned!

Going to take a helluva lot more than the Entain  bonuses to attract people to be breeding and racing 2 year olds.

Going to be a very interesting few seasons ahead for every sector of the industry without any doubt!

[mikeynz]

Better to spend on older horses, fix the handicapping and have better fields for rating 60 +

I think I'm correct in thinking nothing has actually changed regarding 2yo, shifting the seasons has only meant they turn 2 or 3 or 4 six months later than what it was, irrespective it seems numbers just ain'tthere probably the complete domination of some stables has put many off.

 

 

Edited February 24 by mikeynz

[Westview]

16 hours ago, mikeynz said:

Better to spend on older horses, fix the handicapping and have better fields for rating 60 +

I think I'm correct in thinking nothing has actually changed regarding 2yo, shifting the seasons has only meant they turn 2 or 3 or 4 six months later than what it was, irrespective it seems numbers just ain'tthere probably the complete domination of some stables has put many off.

 

 

If you have anything like a top 2yr old it's going to be a very long season,  the recent trials look like there will be alot show up when the money's up.

[the galah]

 

7 hours ago, Westview said:

If you have anything like a top 2yr old it's going to be a very long season,  the recent trials look like there will be alot show up when the money's up.

surely not every trainer thinks their qualified to race 2 year old,will be a top 2 year old?

i mean,they can go around in a 5 horse field at the races for good money,just like they have been going around in 5 horse fields at the trials.

Trials for nothing or fridays $15,000 stake,with $8250 to the winner and an extra $12,000 in bonuses to the winner. 

The whole thing,does make you wonder about sometimes.

We keep reading where hrnz tell us the bonuses are whats needed to get more 2 year old starters,then we read how they keep cancelling programmed 2 year old races or they run a 5 horse race with all starters from the same stable.Duh.

Then there have been several media stories about trainers so enthusiastic about the next gen bonuses. I mean,seriously,these trainers  must be expecting their owners to eventually  pay another $4,000 in training fees so they keep them in training a bit longer and earn an extra $4,000 bonus.Do they not realise how stupid that sounds.

Oh,thats right ,from what i've read,they all are targeting being the first next gen horse home in the 3 sales series races. From what i have read in the many media stories,read,it seems all these trainers think they are going to win.

sort of reminds me,Donald trump keeps using the words,common sense thinking and realistic thinking. Somehow i think harness racing needs some of that.

Edited February 25 by the galah

[mikeynz]

The issue ain't really about 2yo racing, it's just the money pumped into stakes which is in contrast to what it's earning, some of these 5 or 6 horse races have tiny turnovers, how they just magically pull 70000 out of the hat for a 2yo fillies race at Winton bearing in mind the Cheviot race that been around for years is only 40000 seems weird, gee even many 3yo races ain't flash numbers wise either.

Interestingly those four 100000 races they has Addington back late November for 2YOs it seems have been canned, maybe they added 2 and 2 together and only came up with 3, throw in the mind boggling handicapping system and now the clutching of straws with dates allocation, the draft calendar for next season has a heap of southern meetings now maybe Sunday, it's probably not yet proven if 4 or 5 meetings on same day is good or bad.

Rangiora have a 35000 handicap on Sunday, looking like a good field, putting stakes into these races is where the emphasis should be, build the numbers, better for turnover than races with 5 or 6 which usually has a dominant favorite thus producing poor turnover.

Personally I'm surprised that the slot race for Ellerslie next week is for 3yos only, would have made more sense if it was 3yo or over, the type of field for that sort of race is limitless.

Edited February 25 by mikeynz

[the galah]

1 hour ago, mikeynz said:

The issue ain't really about 2yo racing, it's just the money pumped into stakes which is in contrast to what it's earning, some of these 5 or 6 horse races have tiny turnovers, how they just magically pull 70000 out of the hat for a 2yo fillies race at Winton bearing in mind the Cheviot race that been around for years is only 40000 seems weird, gee even many 3yo races ain't flash numbers wise either.

Interestingly those four 100000 races they has Addington back late November for 2YOs it seems have been canned, maybe they added 2 and 2 together and only came up with 3, throw in the mind boggling handicapping system and now the clutching of straws with dates allocation, the draft calendar for next season has a heap of southern meetings now maybe Sunday, it's probably not yet proven if 4 or 5 meetings on same day is good or bad.

Rangiora have a 35000 handicap on Sunday, looking like a good field, putting stakes into these races is where the emphasis should be, build the numbers, better for turnover than races with 5 or 6 which usually has a dominant favorite thus producing poor turnover.

Personally I'm surprised that the slot race for Ellerslie next week is for 3yos only, would have made more sense if it was 3yo or over, the type of field for that sort of race is limitless.

your right.

HRNZ are doing all they can financially to ensure they can run the races with the smallest turnovers, for the trainers who value their udr strike rates,which of course by definition means they don't line their horses up as much.

While doing that,they do nothing to financially encourage those who provide the horses in the races that generate the most turnovers,who line their horses up far more times than the strike rate trainers.

Then ,we have all these media articles on how great trainers think it is that HRNZ is funding the industry with bonuses for the 2 year olds.

I mean,ask yourself,are these trainers that short sighted that they can't see,that to proritise the interests of 5% of the industries participants at the expense of the 95% of trainers/owners/breeders ,will undoubtedly undermine and contract the industry that they supposedly hope to make a living from in years to come.

some of these trainers comments show no empathy whatsoever with 95% in the industry..

Personally i think its all incredibly short sighted,and all incredibly based on selfishness, which will long term  cost them far more than they will ever gain in the short term.

 

Edited February 25 by the galah

[mikeynz]

Another mind boggling idea is running the Derby and Oaks on same programme, why?

And of course the other issues are the CD area, Hawera appear to have lost that date from last month, which if nothing else did produce good numbers, there are still good numbers in the CD,  but how many racedays is optimal ?

Edited Wednesday at 10:15 PM by mikeynz

[mikeynz]

Main race at Rangiora has tote pool just under 14000, much better than two free for all at Addington both under 5.

[mikeynz]

Fields of 5 and 6 for 2yo races at Auckland, really, and Ascot Park Saturday has  40000 2yo fillies race scheduled, yet main pacers race for 18000, weird to say the least.

[TAB For Ever]

On 3/2/2025 at 5:18 PM, mikeynz said:

Main race at Rangiora has tote pool just under 14000, much better than two free for all at Addington both under 5.

Dunno where you drum up your figures and doubt they accurate ,as you seem in such a rush to point out something negative.

Didn't the Rangiora race have a full field of some near-Cup class horses competing for Rangiora's main race of the year while the other two races were pretty much weekly 'run of the mill events with 5 or 6 starters .

Where and why do you dig up this shit.....both races probably run at a loss . But the owners/trainers get paid !

Why do you worry about this ...have you any skin in the game ?

Your numbers often wrong.....FYI I have a friend who had a single $5k bet in at least one of the Addington races ...and it won @ skinny odds .

The TAB had a great weekend...made heaps.....one of best weekends in Sport betting ever. The Warriors got smashed by big score and other Sports events very profitable for TAB.

Dunno who died and made you Chief of the Tote and programming police !

 

 

[Brodie]

11 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Dunno where you drum up your figures and doubt they accurate ,as you seem in such a rush to point out something negative.

Didn't the Rangiora race have a full field of some near-Cup class horses competing for Rangiora's main race of the year while the other two races were pretty much weekly 'run of the mill events with 5 or 6 starters .

Where and why do you dig up this shit.....both races probably run at a loss . But the owners/trainers get paid !

Why do you worry about this ...have you any skin in the game ?

Your numbers often wrong.....FYI I have a friend who had a single $5k bet in at least one of the Addington races ...and it won @ skinny odds .

The TAB had a great weekend...made heaps.....one of best weekends in Sport betting ever. The Warriors got smashed by big score and other Sports events very profitable for TAB.

Dunno who died and made you Chief of the Tote and programming police !

 

 

TAB, MikeyNZ was quoting the tote pool!

Your friend had a 5k bet you say!

It would have been on the fixed odds and not the tote, as totr pools could not handle any 5k bet.

If you have these friends who are able to get $5K on with the TAB Bookies, how about you having a word to them, and get them to let ALL PUNTERS on for $5k??

 

[mikeynz]

16 minutes ago, Brodie said:

TAB, MikeyNZ was quoting the tote pool!

Your friend had a 5k bet you say!

It would have been on the fixed odds and not the tote, as totr pools could not handle any 5k bet.

If you have these friends who are able to get $5K on with the TAB Bookies, how about you having a word to them, and get them to let ALL PUNTERS on for $5k??

 

They never display the fixed odds betting figures, they are all general interest and I always thought the maximum you can win is 2 grand on fixed odds. Must have got TAB on a day when he was in a bad mood lol.Sometimes his love affair with Elerslie or Auckland grinds my gears and it will be interesting in light of all the talk about Saturdays big day how many members of the public show up, as in reality on a per capita of population Westport on Friday will more than likely do better.

[Brodie]

The TAB do let losing punters on for large amounts.

The friend may have placed $5k on a shorty to win, which is what the TAB likes.

 

[mikeynz]

19 minutes ago, Brodie said:

The TAB do let losing punters on for large amounts.

The friend may have placed $5k on a shorty to win, which is what the TAB likes.

 

Maybe sometimes the TAB should just run a tote for some things, maybe just sports betting for fixed odds, it may not drive turnover up but maybe profit. Out of interest they must have restrictions on what you can win on place, top 4 and also on sport, I've no idea about such things.

Northern Southland on Saturday have 5 first starters nominated for 2yo fillies race for 40000.

Edited 4 hours ago by mikeynz

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, mikeynz said:

Maybe sometimes the TAB should just run a tote for some things, maybe just sports betting for fixed odds, it may not drive turnover up but maybe profit. Out of interest they must have restrictions on what you can win on place, top 4 and also on sport, I've no idea about such things.

Northern Southland on Saturday have 5 first starters nominated for 2yo fillies race for 40000.

I believe that if they went back to tote only on racing, they would lose a massive number of punters.

I certainly could not bet into tote pools as just not worth the risk of not knowing your return for putting fair amount of $ on.

It would be a backward step for racing!

Not surebif the number if restricted punters but I am sure there are plenty that wager on harness, not many on  gallops.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Brodie

[mikeynz]

4 minutes ago, Brodie said:

I believe that if they went back to tote only on racing, they would lose a massive number of punters.

I certainly could not bet into tote pools as just not worth the risk of not knowing your return for putting fair amount of $ on.

It would be a backward step for racing!

Not surebif the number if restricted punters but I am sure there are plenty that wager on harness, not many on  gallops.

 

It's conceivable they may lose punters if they don't allow choice as to where they can bet, many casual punters mostly won't worry, bigger punters do, and the notion that they will clawback all this money supposedly bet elsewhere is just baloney 

[the galah]

 

15 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Dunno where you drum up your figures and doubt they accurate ,as you seem in such a rush to point out something negative.

 

Dunno who died and made you Chief of the Tote and programming police !

 

 

You start off your post by saying you dunno where mikeynz got his figures from,doubting there accuracy,then ended your post refering to mikeynz as the tote police,seemingly acknowledging you knew where mikeynz would have got his figures from.  Interesting.

15 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

 

Where and why do you dig up this shit.....both races probably run at a loss . But the owners/trainers get paid !

 

 

Seems to infer you are saying " owners/trainers get paid"  is higher priority than what you describe as mikeynz's "Shit" to say both races run at a loss. i had thought both would be important factors for the industry. You elevating one so far over the other. Again interesting.

 

15 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

 

Why do you worry about this ...have you any skin in the game ?

 

So currently having skin in the game,you believe is a neccessity to express an opinion that fiscal responsibilty is important in the industry?Interesting.

you know what i find interesting about your post....its that in my  reply i keep using the word interesting.

15 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

 

Your numbers often wrong.....FYI I have a friend who had a single $5k bet in at least one of the Addington races ...and it won @ skinny odds .

The TAB had a great weekend...made heaps.....one of best weekends in Sport betting ever. The Warriors got smashed by big score and other Sports events very profitable for TAB.

 

 

 

Mikeynz wasn't quoting the fixed odds component of the betting.

But now you've brought up the fixed odds portion of betting on harness racing,it would be nice if you could refer us to where we find specific fixed odds turnovers/profit/loss on each race ,because as you infer,that will be an important component in the industry generating income to provide stakes.

for the sake of transparency,shouldn't the tab provide such information. I remember they used to have a news portion on the hrnz website where the tab gave highlights of bets won and loss,profit and loss on races at meetings. That only went for a few months then disappeared. 

As to the sports betting. 

i think you raise an important point.

that is the contribution sports betting turnover makes to racings income.

are you able to explain what % harness racing gets,or perhaps give us say the 2023,2024 and projected 2025 figures? Otherwise is all simply,someone saying something, but withholding the exact details from interested parties.

Its something that could be used positive by the the tab,but they don't. Whay is that.

as to the warriors big loss being profitable for the nz tab. Fiar enough,but like i say,specifics on how that helps the nz harness racing industry would be nice.

also,just because there is sports betting,does not mean the bookies will make a profit each year.For example the latest nfl season in america saw many huge betting agencies worldwide suffer big losses due to the unusually high percentage of favorites that won their games.Impacted entains share price as well. 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by the galah