Ashburton Track?

[Newmarket]

Wow, that track is crap. Nothing coming from back, makes Te Rapa look good. 

[SLB2.0]

Ashburton has always had a shocking front-running bias, but that seems to be a growing trend in NZ (Te Rapa, Tauranga) and just about every tight-turning track in the SI - including synthetics.

[mikeynz]

A heavy 8 in March in Canterbury, weird.

[mikeynz]

Last 4 meetings in Canterbury have been a soft 7 or worse.

[Mustang Kenny]

I didn't mind it 🤪

[Newmarket]

17 minutes ago, Mustang Kenny said:

I didn't mind it 🤪

Yeah, good day for you, well done. 
 

But they used to win from the back, but hardly now. Seems a few jockeys got going early, very wide home turn, but they were left flat footed when leaders kicked. 
When the harness raced on it early 80s, they came from well back, as did gallops. From a betting point, not for me.

[Doomed]

27 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

Yeah, good day for you, well done. 
 

But they used to win from the back, but hardly now. Seems a few jockeys got going early, very wide home turn, but they were left flat footed when leaders kicked. 
When the harness raced on it early 80s, they came from well back, as did gallops. From a betting point, not for me.

When the harness raced at Ashburton it was the old track, much bigger. Similar size to Riccarton I think. I saw hands Down win there one day early in his career. Well, saw the last 100 metres anyhow. The track was covered in fog.

I suspect it was remodelled to the smaller circuit some time mid 80s.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Mustang Kenny said:

I didn't mind it 🤪

Me neither!

[curious]

This possibly didn't help.

Rail: Out 3 metres

GENERAL
The rail position was incorrectly advertised as being True

[SLB2.0]

Good to see the leaders continuing to win at Tauranga. Why jockeys are happy to sit out the back is beyond me.

[Shad]

4 hours ago, SLB2.0 said:

Good to see the leaders continuing to win at Tauranga. Why jockeys are happy to sit out the back is beyond me.

May not have the speed to get any closer.

[Special Agent]

8 hours ago, Shad said:

May not have the speed to get any closer.

Bad jockey judgement aside, you may have hit the nail on the head Shad.  The quality of horse flesh may be poor.

[Freda]

On 16/03/2025 at 2:28 AM, Special Agent said:

Bad jockey judgement aside, you may have hit the nail on the head Shad.  The quality of horse flesh may be poor.

Yes.

Generally though, whether horses are coming from the back or not is tempo-related.

Either because the horses up in the van are considered suspect at the distance,  or because the riders haven't  a clue how fast they are going.  

Or both.

[Shad]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

Yes.

Generally though, whether horses are coming from the back or not is tempo-related.

Either because the horses up in the van are considered suspect at the distance,  or because the riders haven't  a clue how fast they are going.  

Or both.

You would think judging of pace would be a given, and a major skill of race riding, I know you've trained for many a year now, what in your opinion would you put it down to, lack of teaching, lacked interest, or just the need for speed, also do many trainers still use the stopwatch in trackwork, I remember my old friend had one that never left the pocket, even take it races day, he would send me to to the winning post on track work day, with it as a kid, instructions where the 800m mark was to click it on, his rule was you'd have be able to run a last half in around the 52s give or take to be competitive to go to the races, if they were to slow, he'd quip, well bring the alarm clock next time, watching some horses these days some wouldn't be close to these times on race day, hence why many aren't competitive, admittedly many other factors can come into it on race day, but from what I see sometimes I think, are these horses doing the times to be competitive, or are many going to the races on a whim and a prayer, at a cost to owners and punters. be very interested in your thoughts.

[SLB2.0]

Do jockeys talk to each other during a race? For example - the two jockeys sitting out the back in a slowly-run race "Hey mate, we might need to make our moves soon."

[Freda]

2 hours ago, SLB2.0 said:

Do jockeys talk to each other during a race? For example - the two jockeys sitting out the back in a slowly-run race "Hey mate, we might need to make our moves soon."

More like ' ffs, they're going slow'....

[Freda]

3 hours ago, Shad said:

You would think judging of pace would be a given, and a major skill of race riding, I know you've trained for many a year now, what in your opinion would you put it down to, lack of teaching, lacked interest, or just the need for speed, also do many trainers still use the stopwatch in trackwork, I remember my old friend had one that never left the pocket, even take it races day, he would send me to to the winning post on track work day, with it as a kid, instructions where the 800m mark was to click it on, his rule was you'd have be able to run a last half in around the 52s give or take to be competitive to go to the races, if they were to slow, he'd quip, well bring the alarm clock next time, watching some horses these days some wouldn't be close to these times on race day, hence why many aren't competitive, admittedly many other factors can come into it on race day, but from what I see sometimes I think, are these horses doing the times to be competitive, or are many going to the races on a whim and a prayer, at a cost to owners and punters. be very interested in your thoughts.

Judgement of pace is everything.  Seemingly not taught much if at all, now.  One or two trainers place importance on times for their riders but not many IMO.

Haven't seen a stopwatch for years.

A half in 52?   bloody hell, they'd go better on a H10 at some tracks.   Back in the day [ a long time ago ] George Humphries told me that if they couldn't run a half in 48 they wouldn't make top horses.  Nowadays that wouldn't win a trial.

My apprentices were sent home with a stopwatch and tested later.    One apprentice left for Australia when he came out of his time, rode work for Gai.  The younger apprentice would ring him from time to time, complaining about me.  The bitch is at me about times, jeez, she pisses me off.  Used to piss me off too, he said.  Now I realise how important it is.  Listen to her.

My partner had a clock in his head.  He could tell you how fast he had worked to within a fraction of a second.  And was particularly effective off the front as you might expect.*

[goldilocks]

Mouse was probably one of the best front running jockeys of his time, certainly  better  than the modern brigade st Riccarton 

[Freda]

55 minutes ago, goldilocks said:

Mouse was probably one of the best front running jockeys of his time, certainly  better  than the modern brigade st Riccarton 

Sure was.

[SLB2.0]

Speaking of tracks - a clear dry fast lane at Waverley today and NZ's best jockey seemingly doesn't want to be there. Gotta feel for punters who backed the short fav in Race 4 (and yes, it's OK to talk through your pocket)

[Doomed]

I always thought CWJ was one of the best judges of pace.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

I always thought CWJ was one of the best judges of pace.

Probably still is!

[Shad]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

Judgement of pace is everything.  Seemingly not taught much if at all, now.  One or two trainers place importance on times for their riders but not many IMO.

Haven't seen a stopwatch for years.

A half in 52?   bloody hell, they'd go better on a H10 at some tracks.   Back in the day [ a long time ago ] George Humphries told me that if they couldn't run a half in 48 they wouldn't make top horses.  Nowadays that wouldn't win a trial.

My apprentices were sent home with a stopwatch and tested later.    One apprentice left for Australia when he came out of his time, rode work for Gai.  The younger apprentice would ring him from time to time, complaining about me.  The bitch is at me about times, jeez, she pisses me off.  Used to piss me off too, he said.  Now I realise how important it is.  Listen to her.

My partner had a clock in his head.  He could tell you how fast he had worked to within a fraction of a second.  And was particularly effective off the front as you might expect.*

Yeah was some time ago, 80s, may haven been 50, but the few he had over the years were wet trackers, a filly  by grey gull, how had ample ability, as a maiden even 3 win horses couldn't get near her at trackwork or trials, unfortunately the race day, was the total opposite, showed hardly an ounce of it, ended with a maiden win with Maurice Campbell aboard a second an a 4th, her half brother which he was tempted to buy, but being a colt, with a filly, not ideal he thought,won 17 races or thereabouts some over the jumps to, two others one by approval, the one by sucaryl, who showed plenty, but went lame, hewy rode him most of his starts, oh the memories and the heartbreak of race horses, thanks for your opinions, a lot of the old arts been lost forever.

[curious]

5 hours ago, Freda said:

Haven't seen a stopwatch for years.

Most of us have one on our wrists these days