Minimum stakes?

[Murray Fish]

I see at the meeting at Wingatui on 28/3 has 7 races each worth 18,500 and one worth 25,000. On the 23/5 8 races all for 17,000. 

[Freda]

Yeah.  Back to the bottom for the peasants. 

[curious]

Just remember that 3 years ago it was 12,000 per race at that Wingatui meeting. Enjoy it while you can because I can't see how it will be any more than that again in another 3 years.

[Doomed]

Meanwhile three $50,000 races at Tauranga and Wanganui today with 5, 6 and 7 starters. You do wonder whether there might be a problem somewhere.

And those bloody stupid twilight meetings with shit fields running for $25,000 each. The extra $6,500 per race has zero impact on the field size or quality. $52,000 or $58,500 extra in stakes per meeting to achieve nothing.

If the twilight meetings ran with $18,500 stakes that would leave enough money to run $18,500 minimums all winter.

I just can't see how we can continue to run those $50,000 open races with 5 or 6 starters. They surely are not self funding.

I think we have a problem. Still we have a brand new slot race, so who am I to complain.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Doomed said:

I just can't see how we can continue to run those $50,000 open races with 5 or 6 starters. They surely are not self funding.

If you haven't  noticed it's been like that for the last ten years. 

[Doomed]

14 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

If you haven't  noticed it's been like that for the last ten years. 

We haven't had minimum stakes of $50,000 for open races for ten years.  People often complain about the state of racing in the CD, but it must be a great place to race a handy horse. I heard one of the presenters at Wanganui today commenting about several horses on a quick back up. Why wouldn't you? When you can race for $50,000 in a six horse field. There are a lot of benefits to be had by astute placement of a horse in the CD.

As Curious mentioned, I have absolutely no idea how the stakes are funded. The turnovers surely aren't sufficient to fund the current stakes levels. It would be interesting to see some figures that break down where the funding comes from. It is probably only about 50% from turnover, virtually nothing from sponsorship, the rest from some mystery source. Basically just a donation from Entain for some benevolent reason.

[Chief Stipe]

31 minutes ago, Doomed said:

We haven't had minimum stakes of $50,000 for open races for ten years.

No but we've had Open races that average very low ratings with stuff all starters.  Sure the stakes are higher so the losses are bigger but all the other variables are no different.

[TAB For Ever]

11 minutes ago, Doomed said:

We haven't had minimum stakes of $50,000 for open races for ten years.  People often complain about the state of racing in the CD, but it must be a great place to race a handy horse. I heard one of the presenters at Wanganui today commenting about several horses on a quick back up. Why wouldn't you? When you can race for $50,000 in a six horse field. There are a lot of benefits to be had by astute placement of a horse in the CD.

As Curious mentioned, I have absolutely no idea how the stakes are funded. The turnovers surely aren't sufficient to fund the current stakes levels. It would be interesting to see some figures that break down where the funding comes from. It is probably only about 50% from turnover, virtually nothing from sponsorship, the rest from some mystery source. Basically just a donation from Entain for some benevolent reason.

Why are you concerned about this ?

Surely it is out of your control ...relax......enjoy it.......i assume you still predicting the Industry is Doomed !

It's a great time to be involved ......owners see some hope ,trainers jockeys and many in the Industry are doing better than ever !

Not so long ago the Industry was basically Insolvent , basically BANKRUPT unable to pay its bills after years of costly mistakes and the TAB even paying out more to the codes than it was making from wagering.

Racing folk through personal and regional bias could not agree on solutions so the Guvmint had to step in ,pay the bills and decide on a solution and try to sort out the blame game.

And they had to move fast.......so turn to an outsider Messara and add 3 x synthetic tracks  to assist training and try and negate bad weather/abandonments which some blamed poor performance on !

Messara highlighted much of what Kiwis didn't want to hear !

Covid and a few years on ...stakes have increased to a much higher level right across the Board and it's a great time to be involved .

Enjoy it while it lasts  !

[Doomed]

16 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

 

Enjoy it while it lasts  !

I do treasure your input TAB.  How long do you think it will last?

Edited 23 hours ago by Doomed

[Wingman]

13 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Enjoy it while it lasts  !

Agree, the short term input from Entain is why we are mostly agreeing on 'enjoy it while it lasts'. Certainly everything had been going the wrong direction for the period 2011 to 2023 but one still gets the distinct impression that 2011 - 2023 era is going to look pretty, compared to uglyville in 5  plus years time.

[Special Agent]

You must have missed the back up plan.

[Huey]

10 hours ago, Doomed said:

We haven't had minimum stakes of $50,000 for open races for ten years.  People often complain about the state of racing in the CD, but it must be a great place to race a handy horse. I heard one of the presenters at Wanganui today commenting about several horses on a quick back up. Why wouldn't you? When you can race for $50,000 in a six horse field. There are a lot of benefits to be had by astute placement of a horse in the CD.

 

If it was that easy the fields would have 10-12 starters in them.

I don't begrudge any owners picking up some loose change that keeps them going in the sport of kings, without these 5 or 6 horses Saturday afternoons would be a lot different.

[Huey]

9 hours ago, Wingman said:

Agree, the short term input from Entain is why we are mostly agreeing on 'enjoy it while it lasts'. Certainly everything had been going the wrong direction for the period 2011 to 2023 but one still gets the distinct impression that 2011 - 2023 era is going to look pretty, compared to uglyville in 5  plus years time.

Don't worry they have a back up plan that's been put into motion at the minute, that'll really please TAB and completely destroy the fabric of the industry!

[Freda]

6 hours ago, Special Agent said:

You must have missed the back up plan.

Well, I missed it too 

[Wingman]

Ten years ago a low key saturday meeting like yesterdays Wanganui meeting would have had stakes for lower grades excluding maidens at 20K so R65 + cannot complain at being able today to race in 40K fields. The lower grade open handicappers Rating 80+ are being short changed however as ten years ago they were typically racing for 40K and today only 50K. To pay your way for the season the 80+ handicapper needs to win twice and then becomes uncompetitive in the process as its rating goes into or close to 90. A few less lower grade open handicaps but at a stake of 80K would achieve a lot of good IMO. i.e. bigger fields, better returns for owners and punters alike. That of course needs that rigorous work on the poorly functioning calendar.

Looking briefly at the more serious races there is no reason to be disappointed with the stakes on offer, most have doubled, or more. The only example I can see where it did not is yesterdays 150K Japan trophy at Tauranga which ten years ago was 100K. 

[Freda]

20 hours ago, curious said:

Just remember that 3 years ago it was 12,000 per race at that Wingatui meeting. Enjoy it while you can because I can't see how it will be any more than that again in another 3 years.

I am well aware what stakes were 3 years ago..and ten..and twenty...but it pisses me off that the time of the year determines the level of allocation for the bottom feeders.

[curious]

30 minutes ago, Freda said:

I am well aware what stakes were 3 years ago..and ten..and twenty...but it pisses me off that the time of the year determines the level of allocation for the bottom feeders.

The winter stakes reductions are another matter. Certainly not essential. They could be evened out. However I would have some sympathy for that if it's linked to lower wagering revenue during that period.

[Doomed]

1 hour ago, curious said:

The winter stakes reductions are another matter. Certainly not essential. They could be evened out. However I would have some sympathy for that if it's linked to lower wagering revenue during that period.

We don't actually know that as turnover figures are hardly ever available. I would suggest that a decent sized $22,000 open race in the winter months would do just as much turnover as these five horse $50,000 races in the NI during the summer months. But who knows, we can only assume. Perhaps there are punters who love the 5 and 6 horse fields and punt big. We have no way of knowing.