Standing Starts at Addington - Shocking!

[Brodie]

Time to ban the standing starts at Addington!

Time and time again they are an absolute shocker.

When Peter Lamb was replaced by Donnelly we all thought things had to get better, but no we were wrong.

The last race just run, some of the horses were charging the tape and he lets them go and then calls a false start  twice!

Seriously HRNZ really do need to look at improving their professionalism or the industry is totally stuffed .

Long overdue that they get someone  who actually gives a damn starting races and also have a clean out of the officialdom as it is just not good enough!!

Maybe I need Forbury to express himself as well.

It is a real turn off for those concerned about the industry and we all know the industry is in trouble despite the Entain and Trackside media hype.

Brad Steele needs to step up and sort it out bigtime.

 

 

 

 

 

[Furlong]

Wouldn't like to see standing starts go, but the starter has to walk them up to the tape, hold them until all in line and then let them go. Drivers need to be fined heavily if trying to get a "flyer". This running them up to the tape just confuses the horses who don't know whether they are meant to be standing or are actually racing. The starter should be fined also, each time he allows shambles like yesterday. A look back at any old film from the 50's and 60's could be most helpful as Ron Carter didn't have all this trouble.

 

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, Furlong said:

Wouldn't like to see standing starts go, but the starter has to walk them up to the tape, hold them until all in line and then let them go. Drivers need to be fined heavily if trying to get a "flyer". This running them up to the tape just confuses the horses who don't know whether they are meant to be standing or are actually racing. The starter should be fined also, each time he allows shambles like yesterday. A look back at any old film from the 50's and 60's could be most helpful as Ron Carter didn't have all this trouble.

 

The truth of the matter is that many of the drivers know that they can get away with it from the starter.

It is just not fair on the Punters when these starts are just too poorly executed.

The 2000metre so called stands are the worst as the drivers know that if they are slow away they are going to struggle!

The starter I am sure is a nice bloke, however he is paid to do the job of starting both mobile and standing starts in a professional and fair way!

Unfortunately far too often the standing starts are not fair and are not standing starts and are shocking!

Either the Club bans the stands from the 2000m or the starter officiates the starts correctly.

The starter has had many years of experience starting races and we get this crap dished up to the Punters!!!

Yes he needs to be heavily fined for any poor starts, instead they want to fine or heavily suspend amateur drivers who use the whip outside the stupid whip rule?

Pathetic really!

 

 

 

Edited April 10 by Brodie

[Newmarket]

The starter is a joke…. FFS just watched race 3 at Winton today, was an utter disgrace. Have a look, how was it a fair start?

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, Newmarket said:

The starter is a joke…. FFS just watched race 3 at Winton today, was an utter disgrace. Have a look, how was it a fair start?

LOL, another incompetent starter!

Seriously what an absolute farce Newmarket!

How anyone could possibly think that this is acceptable?

Brad Steele should be advertising for people who actually are competent!

Time he stepped up and came out and apologised for what is going on, but he wont because it does not affect the amount of money  they are getting each week from the ones that pay him!

That is just one of the many shockers that we are dished up and yet their is no consequences!

They would rather hammer the Amateurs who receive no financial compensation .

Farcical and not good enough.

Why isnt this incompetence brought up on The Box Seat, rather than discussing races that were run last week?

 

[Gammalite]

It's just too hard to get those Big fields of horses organized.  (from a stand) 

Last week was great and Addington ran ALL 4 'trots' races  from a mobile.

I just watched a race tonight (race 9) and 2 very good (and experienced ) drivers are tipped out at the start . Tim Williams and Sam Ottley. that just shows the 'Folly' of these standing starts. 

Just put em' behind the mobile everytime (like America) and avoid all these problems.

More punters watching that race , will leave the game as far as investing is concerned as who wants to see their money lose in that manner ? No one .

footnote : (Bob Butt did drive a very nice race on 'Waterloo Station' of Nairns to win well though ) 😁

[Newmarket]

1 minute ago, Gammalite said:

It's just too hard to get those Big fields of horses organized.  (from a stand) 

Last week was great and Addington ran ALL 4 'trots' races  from a mobile.

I just watched a race tonight (race 9) and 2 very good (and experienced ) drivers are tipped out at the start . Tim Williams and Sam Ottley. that just shows the 'Folly' of these standing starts. 

Just put em' behind the mobile everytime (like America) and avoid all these problems.

More punters watching that race , will leave the game as far as investing is concerned as who wants to see their money lose in that manner ? No one .

footnote : (Bob Butt did drive a very nice race on 'Waterloo Station' of Nairns to win well though ) 😁

Yes but half the problem is not the standing start, years ago a standing start meant all horses at a standstill…. but now it’s a luck of the draw mobile behind a tape….. I don’t get it

[the galah]

Theres a solution,that would reduce the problems in standing starts, which result in interference, horses breaking,horses getting unfair starts due to not being able to take their positions or being disadvantaged by being the horses drawn in the middle that are the last to turn in.

simple. Just give the horses more space.To do that you would have to reduce the number on the front line.

if you want proof of what i mean.

go have a look at the standing starts at the recent timaru meeting run on the grass. That grass track is wider at the point the stands started,than any other track.

The races there were started by the same starter,had the same divers,had less exoperienced horses...yet in the 5 stands only 1 breaker within the first 100m and no interference early.

its the same logic that you apply when backing risky beginners who start on the ur.Many horses that start on the unruly are there because they don't like the congestion that exists when off the front. Horses like that,especially trotters, will have a far higher strike rate of going away if they start from the outside of the ur,than other positions on the unruly.The reason is,they have more space.

 

[Brodie]

Reality is that the starters are not respected by the drivers and they actually control them.

Carter and Mulcay previous starters before Peter Lamb knew how to have standing starts!

They had the horses standing before they let them go, it is not Rocket Science.

If the starters can not do what they are paid to for then they need replacing.

It is not a difficult job, they need people who can perform and have respect from the drivers, rather than being mates to them and letting them get away with it!

Brad Steele needs to come down on them if he indeed is here to lead.

[Gammalite]

8 hours ago, the galah said:

Theres a solution,that would reduce the problems in standing starts, which result in interference, horses breaking,horses getting unfair starts due to not being able to take their positions or being disadvantaged by being the horses drawn in the middle that are the last to turn in.

simple. Just give the horses more space.To do that you would have to reduce the number on the front line.

Addington is quite a wide track. Don't think 'space' is the issue. Horses are trained by professional horsepeople who can get their horses to step ok , but you are always going to have the 'Rogue' .

All the stands I did were on a 600m track (because a mobile wouldn't fit around it) and they did ok. 

A difference was they were going a LOT SLOWER. take the NZ Cup for example these days. Newmarket was saying above about the 'running up behind the tape' they try and do. He is right for sure. That's not a standing start at all anyway , with drivers trying to get the jump on rivals. and then they go flat out after. so you miss away you are Out of the race these days. There's no handicap so Run it from the Mobile Barrier ( just makes sense)

In the days of Handicaps the Iconic Interdominion was run from a stand up to 1982. But many pacers missed away . In one of the very last stand Championships , one of the fav's LORD Module ran last for Nz behind Koala King and Locarno (of Robin Butts) as he was one of the worst Standing Start horses ever.

The Interdominion Council then saw the light and put into play the MOBILE only Championships from then on. Gammalite himself the Victor in the Very first 2 All mobile series at Auckland and SA. Interestingly the trotters series at Auckland was the last Standing start Trotters series , with the Aussie Scotch Notch winning from Jenner , Sir Castleton and About Now. They were the 10m handicapped runners too 😆.   Scotch Notch and Sir Castleton (NZ)  then easily Quinellaed the next 2 series from the mobile barrier in 84'. and 85' . 

There's the answer run All races from a mobile barrier , and the BEST on the night will take Victory. as has happened ever since Gammalite 40 years ago at Auckland. 

 

[mikeynz]

Who's the starter in Southland?

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Addington is quite a wide track. Don't think 'space' is the issue. Horses are trained by professional horsepeople who can get their horses to step ok , but you are always going to have the 'Rogue' .

All the stands I did were on a 600m track (because a mobile wouldn't fit around it) and they did ok. 

A difference was they were going a LOT SLOWER. take the NZ Cup for example these days. Newmarket was saying above about the 'running up behind the tape' they try and do. He is right for sure. That's not a standing start at all anyway , with drivers trying to get the jump on rivals. and then they go flat out after. so you miss away you are Out of the race these days. There's no handicap so Run it from the Mobile Barrier ( just makes sense)

In the days of Handicaps the Iconic Interdominion was run from a stand up to 1982. But many pacers missed away . In one of the very last stand Championships , one of the fav's LORD Module ran last for Nz behind Koala King and Locarno (of Robin Butts) as he was one of the worst Standing Start horses ever.

The Interdominion Council then saw the light and put into play the MOBILE only Championships from then on. Gammalite himself the Victor in the Very first 2 All mobile series at Auckland and SA. Interestingly the trotters series at Auckland was the last Standing start Trotters series , with the Aussie Scotch Notch winning from Jenner , Sir Castleton and About Now. They were the 10m handicapped runners too 😆.   Scotch Notch and Sir Castleton (NZ)  then easily Quinellaed the next 2 series from the mobile barrier in 84'. and 85' . 

There's the answer run All races from a mobile barrier , and the BEST on the night will take Victory. as has happened ever since Gammalite 40 years ago at Auckland. 

 

you've previously suggested the field size needs reduced and i've come around to your way of thinking.

15 horse fields in stands and  14 in mobiles over 1980 simply give those who draw poor and settle back,niot much chance.

back in the day they always had horses on the ballot ,so were always trying to give as many a start as possible,but thats not a factor these days.

But i do think space is a factor.

The more space a horse gets at the start the more likely they are to begin safely and the less likely they are to suffer interference.

[Gammalite]

18 minutes ago, the galah said:

But i do think space is a factor.

The more space a horse gets at the start the more likely they are to begin safely and the less likely they are to suffer interference.

well I spose you are right as the Timaru figures you gave seem supporting of this.

The NZ Cup , Rowe Cup and Dominion Trot group 1's are all stands still , and because they are non-handicap anymore , everyone is squeezed up off the front Mark , and getting in each others road. ( and there's reduced space as you say. hence there have been issues with that last few years with the capacity field. ( and these are seasoned animals)

Traditionally the Trotters would be spread out across HANDICAPS. If you can see tonight's Trot field at Albion (the last race) in the form guide, the trotters are spread out across the handicaps , hence everyone has plenty of room (space) as you are looking for . and they'll All get away fine. 

The only reason I can see to run any race from a Stand is to HANDICAP some of them , so they all have a winning chance.  Often in NZ they're all Jammed up on the same Mark and problems arise . Especially because as you mentioned the field size is too big as well. ( should be Max 12 IMO  )

and Mobile 10 starters.  this gives Every Runner a winning chance.  Smaller fields are good . as We Walk By Faith and Republican Party demonstrated convincingly at Auckland swooping from the rear in a Group 1 Friday night. 

 

[Brodie]

Race 1 standing start at Methven was a false start first time around snd shouldve been.

Second time was far better when the starter had them pretty much standing rather than charging the tape..

He needs to command respect from the drivers and firmly extend to the drivers that he will not tolerate these drivers charging the start !

Long overdue Time to clean the standing starts  up or get rid of them, as too often they are just unfair.

Hopefully they can get it right in the future.

 

Edited April 13 by Brodie

[Gammalite]

On 4/11/2025 at 10:17 PM, the galah said:

its the same logic that you apply when backing risky beginners who start on the ur.Many horses that start on the unruly are there because they don't like the congestion that exists when off the front. Horses like that,especially trotters, will have a far higher strike rate of going away if they start from the outside of the ur,than other positions on the unruly.The reason is,they have more space.

I notice the 2 unruly horses facing outwards at Albion at the outside fence. Helped them get away well. and plenty of space out there like mentioned. 

The NZ starters can see that the best way to get them away is make them stand . as others have mentioned on this thread. No good trying to jump the gun . 

The only horse to gallop out at the start ( and lose it's chance)  was sadly the $3 favourite in this race as well from last night. A bit sad for the punters but it's the risk you take if you want to bet on standing starts 🙄.

Pete McMullen (our best QLD driver IMO)  wins bucketloads of races here , and thought should of won this as well. BUT Forgot to Pull out until they turned for home , and thus got hemmed in after beautiful one-one sit all the way. Pete made a complete meal of it actually lol 😆, so just shows it can happen to the best of them at times. Might of been the driving rain during the race that stuffed him up  😂

[Gammalite]

The big field of Pacers at the Mt Hutt Cup race 10 at Methven just left from the stand. 15 runners.

Wasn't too bad 🤔. Kourtney Kardash was seemingly gunna play up rearing and that,  as not greatly experienced with this sort of start, so the starter made them all walk another circle , and excellent horseman Bob Butt got her away well in the end. and the whole field was standing well at the tape release too.

Just the one galloper at the start (Light Me Up) . the 40m backmarker RENEGADE is the best horse , but come un-stuck with the handicap , in a show of what used to happen (with Handicaps working)  to give All the runners a winning chance. 

Here's Herbie working to the lead for CJ off the front Mark , and then holding them all out at 14-1. well done CJ !! 

[Brodie]

The stands are just so much better when they are standing rather  than  the BS starts where anything goes!

As I say the starter needs to address all the drivers and advise them of what a standing starts actually is.

It is solely the starters fault that this has occurred as they have been allowed to hsppen due to letting them get away with it for far too long.

It should be fair for everyone if they program standing starts.

Even far too often the unruly horses are that far back in the stands, that they have no show, this also needs to stop.

 

[Brodie]

Lol lol lol lol

You just have to shake your head and just wonder.

Very questionable today once again.

Major Hipster got no advantage from galloping lol

Are they SERIOUS??????

Delusion!

Edited 22 hours ago by Brodie

[the galah]

15 hours ago, Brodie said:

Lol lol lol lol

You just have to shake your head and just wonder.

Very questionable today once again.

Major Hipster got no advantage from galloping lol

Are they SERIOUS??????

Delusion!

he may have got an advantage,but his first couple of stride,where he paced are where his quick forward momentum started,and he only galloped,for 3 or 4 strides 

we've all seen many horses start off in a gallop and gain an adavantage before the driver has a chance to react and restrain the horse. Drivers can't be mind readers and their is a split second reaction time before that restrain that is reasonable.

in my  opinion,i'm surprised the inquiry proceeded.

I mean,if they put major hipster out,then that would set a precedent that would see endless inquiries ,as they would have to look at every breaker who may gain  a slight advantage in the first 30m when breaking and every trotter that gallops late in a race for 3 or 4 strides and doesn't immediately lose ground

.It would be a whole can of worms that would cause everyone,including opunters,many headaches and claims of inconsistencies.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by the galah

[Gammalite]

4 minutes ago, the galah said:

we've all seen many horses start off in a gallop and gain an adavantage before the driver has a chance to react and restrain the horse. Drivers can't be mind readers and their is a split second reaction time before that restrain that is reasonable.

Was just having a look how the junior drivers got on in race 7 , a mid class trot.

actually that race wa named the 'Sam O'Reilly junior Trot' and he Won the race. !! Royal Del trotting beautifully out in front for Sam. had his name written all over it lol  😂.

But looking at the start the juniors didn't seem to mind if their horse was walking,  trotting or skipping, cantering as they had to be 'Moving Forwards' as the starter let the tape go. There was NO standing around , that's for sure. These stands are just so silly these days.

So you sure right that it's more of a 'can you gain advantage with a quick thrust forward in any gait' for those first few metres. 

It just seems the starters are doing these rolling starts to avoid anyone swinging sideways at tape release ??   watching the junior trot that seemed to work I spose. Is this a good thing in the end then (to do it this way)  ? 

[Westview]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

Was just having a look how the junior drivers got on in race 7 , a mid class trot.

actually that race wa named the 'Sam O'Reilly junior Trot' and he Won the race. !! Royal Del trotting beautifully out in front for Sam. had his name written all over it lol  😂.

But looking at the start the juniors didn't seem to mind if their horse was walking,  trotting or skipping, cantering as they had to be 'Moving Forwards' as the starter let the tape go. There was NO standing around , that's for sure. These stands are just so silly these days.

So you sure right that it's more of a 'can you gain advantage with a quick thrust forward in any gait' for those first few metres. 

It just seems the starters are doing these rolling starts to avoid anyone swinging sideways at tape release ??   watching the junior trot that seemed to work I spose. Is this a good thing in the end then (to do it this way)  ? 

The starters are doing this because unfortunately it's something they are measured on race starts on time  along with the club , yip the club I'm not sure how the club can influence a start from the stand but by default the clubs pay the starter. If you want standing starts that are standing starts give the starter the time to set one unfortunately horse's are horse's not robots.

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Westview said:

The starters are doing this because unfortunately it's something they are measured on race starts on time  along with the club , yip the club I'm not sure how the club can influence a start from the stand but by default the clubs pay the starter. If you want standing starts that are standing starts give the starter the time to set one unfortunately horse's are horse's not robots.

Thats an important point.

Another point is,when mr lamb was starter , he often tried holding them until everyone was standing and all that did was lead to more horses moving around and horses who had stood perfectly for a minute or two often ended up being disadvantaged,which really was unfair.

people should remember that before being too critical of the current starter.Our current starter doesn't appear to favour any driver either. Fairness is important. Some drivers are more switched on to his routines,but thats not the starter favoriing anyone.

Personally i have no issue with the standing starts continuing.

i think the industry needs to keep providing both standing and mobile starts at all levels, as  if you just run mobiles in the races that are currently run as handicap standing starts(with horses off marks)then you will get a lot more hot favorites,less turnover and realisticaaly mopres of much higher grade starting beside lowwer grade horses. There is no way to handicap in mobiles apart from prefgerential draws and in an 8 horse field a pbd means not much.

So until someone comes up with a solution to that,then they will continue.

Persobnally what i have a problem with is the 2 circle formation. I've never been a fan of it and its evolved into the starter not holding them long and the last horses to turn in,through no fault of theirs(just because they are drawn to be the last horse in the circle to turn in),are disadvantaged.

Also i have a problem with the stips not reprimanding drivers who start too far back from the ur due to turning in too late or wanting a running start. If its good enough to reprimand them for being half a lngth behind in a mobile start,then how come 20-30 metres behind in a stand is consistently overlooked. Again i think they is partly due to the 2 circle formation also.

as i've suggested previously,part of the solution is also in having less horses off the front line on tracks like addington.

And also i would point out,while all drivers are trying to get the best start possible,some are simp[ly much better at it than others.

For example i watched  a horse win a non win trot at winton a couple of weeks ago.Initially i thought there may be an inquiry because the driver,nathan williamson had his horse btween 5-20 metres in front of all the other horses off the ur. And he didn't draw the inside ur. But after watching the replay it was obvious,he simply was mopre switched on than the other drivers and got his horse into postion quicker . 

[Brodie]

4 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Was just having a look how the junior drivers got on in race 7 , a mid class trot.

actually that race wa named the 'Sam O'Reilly junior Trot' and he Won the race. !! Royal Del trotting beautifully out in front for Sam. had his name written all over it lol  😂.

But looking at the start the juniors didn't seem to mind if their horse was walking,  trotting or skipping, cantering as they had to be 'Moving Forwards' as the starter let the tape go. There was NO standing around , that's for sure. These stands are just so silly these days.

So you sure right that it's more of a 'can you gain advantage with a quick thrust forward in any gait' for those first few metres. 

It just seems the starters are doing these rolling starts to avoid anyone swinging sideways at tape release ??   watching the junior trot that seemed to work I spose. Is this a good thing in the end then (to do it this way)  ? 

Gamma, lol This Sam O’Reilly did he marry Sarah and took her name instead of remaining a Thornley?

Hate to say it but officialdom from HRNZ is very amateurish and very poor.

Punters should not be putting up with these pathetic so called standing starts, snd blhcott wagering on them until such time as they get someone who knows what standing still means .

Otherwise call them something else, like anything GOES!

Where on earth is Brad Steele advising us what HRNZ policy is in regards to the stands?

Seriously anyone could do what the starters are currently getting away with!

Watch, nothing will come out from HRNZ!

 

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Gamma, lol This Sam O’Reilly did he marry Sarah and took her name instead of remaining a Thornley?

Hate to say it but officialdom from HRNZ is very amateurish and very poor.

Punters should not be putting up with these pathetic so called standing starts, snd blhcott wagering on them until such time as they get someone who knows what standing still means .

Otherwise call them something else, like anything GOES!

Where on earth is Brad Steele advising us what HRNZ policy is in regards to the stands?

Seriously anyone could do what the starters are currently getting away with!

Watch, nothing will come out from HRNZ!

 

Were yesterdays starts really that bad?

I've just watched them all again i couldn'r see much wrong with them.

Everyone had a chance at a fair start to me?

that major hipster is one switched on standing start horse. The horse,driver and trainer deserve credit for having it beginning so fast as soon as the tapes go.

[Nowornever]

5 hours ago, the galah said:

in my  opinion,i'm surprised the inquiry proceeded.

Yeh that was my gut feel as well. What a waste of time having an inquiry into that.

In saying that I was also expecting him to be disqualified because nothing makes sense anymore with some of their decisions. It is never cut and dried even when it is with those guys.