Tuesday- 2 low class meetings competing against each other?

[Brodie]

Not too sure why HRNZ would program Addington and Cambridge meetings running against each other on Tuesday?

Surely they are competing for the same dollar and personally believe they couldve run one of the meetings on a different day?

There will be more wagering on Addington and Cambridge turnover will be poor!

Is there anyone with business sense got any good reason why this is happening?

Just seems crazy on a Tuesday!

They seem on a route of trying to reduce turnover in several ways, Entain obviously has its reasons?

 

[Nowornever]

Nothing surprises me anymore with the programming.

Actually I was expecting it. 

 

[Doomed]

Entain appear to have no idea how racing works in NZ, and don't get much help from the two codes who appear to have even less idea.

Nothing Entain does regarding programming seems designed to maximise turnovers. The Sunday congestion is another example of that. And the enormous gaps between races on Sundays means they no-longer see Sundays as an opportunity to encourage on course attendances.

I can only assume that a lot of their decisions are based on overseas theories. If something works overseas they assume it will work in NZ. They don't seem to realise we are a special case, for better or worse.

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Nothing Entain does regarding programming seems designed to maximise turnovers.

Why do you think ENTAIN sets the programme?  They may have input but I thought the codes set the calendar/programme.  Now the codes have less incentive to work together so some of the issues are due to competition.

[Brodie]

43 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why do you think ENTAIN sets the programme?  They may have input but I thought the codes set the calendar/programme.  Now the codes have less incentive to work together so some of the issues are due to competition.

They need to be working together Chief, to get the best result.

It really does show that there is not much leadership going on and HRNZ are acting as if this dosh  that Entain is throwing in with gay abandon is never ending?

The industry needs to wake up as it is going to get a rude awakening.

[mikeynz]

I would imagine the new calendar will be released someday soon.

[Chief Stipe]

4 hours ago, Brodie said:

They need to be working together Chief, to get the best result.

It really does show that there is not much leadership going on and HRNZ are acting as if this dosh  that Entain is throwing in with gay abandon is never ending?

The industry needs to wake up as it is going to get a rude awakening.

I don't disagree but HRNZ have shown poor judgement in this area a long time before ENTAIN turned up.  Now that dogs are going HRNZ need to step up.  Excuse the pun but it's dog eat dog.

[Doomed]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I don't disagree but HRNZ have shown poor judgement in this area a long time before ENTAIN turned up.  Now that dogs are going HRNZ need to step up.  Excuse the pun but it's dog eat dog.

It's quite sad to see the way the trots have lost their way in the south. They appear to be just floundering around at present and gradually fading away. Who would have thought back in the 70s and 80s that Riccarton would eventually take over from Addington as the big show in town.

Does anyone have any thoughts about when and why it all went wrong?

[Nowornever]

11 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Who would have thought back in the 70s and 80s that Riccarton would eventually take over from Addington as the big show in town.

Does anyone have any thoughts about when and why it all went wrong?

Not sure either is a big show in town.  Public are not turning up at both venues like they once did as far as I know.

When trackside started broadcasting free to air I stopped going to the races like I once did. Much easier to sit in the comfort of your own home and watch the races and other sports without filling in the 30mins between races.

[Nowornever]

Stopping the pick six and place six also stopped a lot of punters in my opinion. Where they once competed with lotto they can not do that anymore. 

Give us some bet types that will pay hundreds of thousands not thousands to get those players back in the game.

 

[the galah]

the 2 meetings on a tuesday is an interesting concept.

Maybe it has something to do with easter,but on the face of it,it would appear to make more sense to run one of those meetings on a wednesday.

looking at the sky racing schedule,its indicates neither meeting will get any sky racing 1 coverage. Just sky racing 2. Some nz midweek harness meetings do get some races covered by sky racing 1,but the tuesday meetings don't,going by this months schedule.

So that means the turnovers  are going to be small.

HRNZ never talk about sky 1 being a consideration in their allocation of dates.Given it has such significant impact on turnovers,you wonder why.

another couple of things about the 2 meetings races being run 10 minutes apart,of course means lots of people who do happen to follow the 2 meetings,will only be financial enough to go from race to race and given it seems to take the current tab so long to confirm races or post results,turnover will be impacted to a degree because of that

If they think people put double in their accounts to spend, because theres 2 meetings on. or those who would normally bet on every race,will do so when 2 meetings are run on the same day,simply don't understand punters.

but i do think,big picture, these type of meetings are good for the industry.

The only thing about them that i don't agree with is the allocation of more of them to areas which have the least horses and the running of so many more races with penalty free conditions in the north island. Why the preferential treatment for them in that respect,when compared to canterbury.

Edited April 14 by the galah

[Brodie]

To be fair, the TAB along with the Clubs have both contributed to the fact that the numbers that now attend on course has dwindled so much without doubt!

Firstly they have brought in massive betting restrictions on those that would significantly increase their turnover and bring other people with them.

Punters that would be betting before going on course are now not bothering, which is going to continue to haunt the clubs and TAB.

Secondly and very importantly, the totally pathetic $1k Anti Money Laundering limit is dramatically stopping wagering!

The TAB are actually breaking the law by having the limit of $1k when the law actually states a limit of $10k or such!

The reason they adopt such a low limit is so they can control the punters, but it is to their detriment financially and otherwise!

 

Edited April 14 by Brodie

[Nowornever]

The TAB never think about the flow on effects for many of their idiotic decisions. When you limit betting opportunities and shut down the potential for big payouts, you also kill the excitement and mystique that surrounds those rare, life-changing collects. The buzz disappears, fewer people talk about them, and the dream of landing a big win fades. That ripple effect doesn’t grow the game—it shrinks it.

[Chief Stipe]

On 13/04/2025 at 6:04 PM, Brodie said:

Not too sure why HRNZ would program Addington and Cambridge meetings running against each other on Tuesday?

Are they competing against themselves or the SEVEN Australian Harness meetings on the same night?  Yes it isn't an exact overlap but doesn't it give the NZ meetings first crack at the punters dollar?

[Brodie]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Are they competing against themselves or the SEVEN Australian Harness meetings on the same night?  Yes it isn't an exact overlap but doesn't it give the NZ meetings first crack at the punters dollar?

But there are not that many punters that would be wanting to punt on harness on a Tuesday let alone Cambridge?

[mikeynz]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

But there are not that many punters that would be wanting to punt on harness on a Tuesday let alone Cambridge?

Some of those races at Winton, turnover looks pretty modest.

I'm just going by win pools and Quaddies, gotta have something to use as a yardstick.

Edited April 17 by mikeynz

[Brodie]

The interesting thing is that certain punters are restricted to pathetically low amounts by the TAB!

These punters would be increasing turnover dramatically if they were not so restricted and  also having betting options withdrawn from them!

And yet, the NZ TAB is prepared to lose significant amounts on many of their meetings that they run, knowingly?

This can not continue,  and they will one day realise that they are very poor decision makers, and will not end well!

 

[mikeynz]

Strangely a big spike in turnover for the last at Winton. 5 15 or so, must have got some Xtra with no Auckland and pubs maybe filling up, who knows.

[the galah]

23 minutes ago, mikeynz said:

Strangely a big spike in turnover for the last at Winton. 5 15 or so, must have got some Xtra with no Auckland and pubs maybe filling up, who knows.

yes ,that always happens when they are run in those timeslots near ther end of the working day. like you said,it would be people in pubs,people home from work,with the australian $ invested significantly impacting turnovers around that time.

Most likely that last race also got some ok lead in sky coverag as well.

another factor with that last race was there was a false start and the race was delayed. Whenever that happens and its in a good time slot to start with,the pools always increase.The tabcorp win pool on the last race  was $11,000.more than double any other ace.And 5 times more than the early races for them.

from my observations,a part of that increase has to be a lot of people,most likely in australia,betting on what they think is the next race to go. About a year ago i gave the example of how a win pool for a race at the gore trots run in the right time slot,got to just under $20,000 after being delayed for close to half an hour,but it continued to pop up as the next race to go every 10 minutes or so..

it just goes to show who's really betting.

Only problem with those delayed races is they sometimes won't get shown on aussie tv so people over there wouldn't be too impreesed they had bet on a race from nz that they may not even get to see sometimes..

 

[mikeynz]

No spikes in turnover at Alexandra Park, must be the poorest pools of any harness meeting I've seen in a long time, maybe the weather?......maybe the day it's on with several other events on, Warriers,  Rugby on TV, Auckland FC on TV, some very average fields betting wise, probably were unfortunate to get washed out on Thursday, only thing I can say I observe is that some of the exotic pools are probably a wee bit better as opposed to win and place where you get no value on some races.

Addington turnover were average run of the mill too, but at least average is OK, Auckland were very much below.

Edited April 19 by mikeynz

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, mikeynz said:

No spikes in turnover at Alexandra Park, must be the poorest pools of any harness meeting I've seen in a long time, maybe the weather?......maybe the day it's on with several other events on, Warriers,  Rugby on TV, Auckland FC on TV, some very average fields betting wise, probably were unfortunate to get washed out on Thursday, only thing I can say I observe is that some of the exotic pools are probably a wee bit better as opposed to win and place where you get no value on some races.

Addington turnover were average run of the mill too, but at least average is OK, Auckland were very much below.

The tote pools are always very poor at Auckland, however we are not advised as to how much is being taken on the fixed?

Personally do not bother investing on the Auckland meetings as just no value or worth the effort, and I believe many other punters are the same!

Entain continues to subsidise the stakes in Auckland at the moment, but when they stop this they are going to be in s far more dire situation unfortunately.

Biggest population in NZ and yet they can not get enough interest in the sport to enable sustainability?

 

[the galah]

5 hours ago, mikeynz said:

No spikes in turnover at Alexandra Park, must be the poorest pools of any harness meeting I've seen in a long time, maybe the weather?......maybe the day it's on with several other events on, Warriers,  Rugby on TV, Auckland FC on TV, some very average fields betting wise, probably were unfortunate to get washed out on Thursday, only thing I can say I observe is that some of the exotic pools are probably a wee bit better as opposed to win and place where you get no value on some races.

Addington turnover were average run of the mill too, but at least average is OK, Auckland were very much below.

Would the auckland meeting have goten any sky coverage in australia.

Being a postponed meeting i kind of doubt they would have made any time available on their packed saturday racing channels.

 

Edited April 20 by the galah

[the galah]

4 hours ago, Brodie said:

 

Biggest population in NZ and yet they can not get enough interest in the sport to enable sustainability?

 

The powers that be keep telling us popualtion base is a reason why they consider auckland of such significance.

Yet all the trends indicate as auckland has grown ,harness racing has declined in that region.

In other words i think its just another example of flawed thinking that exists at industry leadership level.

As i've said before,many of the indicators are urban sprawl has a negative impact on harness racing particpation in those areas.

I mean,you don;t have to be einstein to realise that the cost of land and housing is so prohibitive for anyone wanting to have or set up even a small scale training establishment .Only the rich,the already established or those with close family connections are the ones left in the sport in those areas. And of course,as for auckland, many of those left use the training facilties that they are going to old..

Its a joke to think new participants will come along in enough numbers to maintain even the attrition levels in harness racing in auckland.

The same problem is slowly evolving in canterbury.

for example,in canterbury,there was a time when the best thing for people involved in harness racing,was they were established  in areas  whcih they kinew ,in years to come, the land would eventually become such a valuable asset.  duetro urban sprawl.That applied to all level of trainers occupying properiteis on the outskirts of christchurch.

Problem is now,land values,even in areas like canterbury have made it very prohibitive to even get a foot in the door.so its inevitable that the industry will decline there as well.

Thats why i started a thread a year or so ago, suggesting HRNZ invest the money they got from the forbury sale,in an establishment in the area which still has significant particpation . canterbury. An establishment that would cater for all aspects of those involved in the industry. A possible stepping stone for some,a possible place to go as others dowbn scale,,but also very importantly an investment in a strategic area where,if neccessary in 20 0r 30 years to come,they could cash up at a huge profit and start the cycle of doing it all again and keeping harness racing going.

Thats what they should be looking at doing with auckland,not some other plan,like they currently have, where they erode their asset base to a point where they can't.

But,seems no one thinks like that anymore, Everyones about looking after special interest groups andonly looking a couple of years ahead.

 

Edited April 20 by the galah

[Brodie]

The thing about Auckland is that the population has spiralled out of control due to immigration from countries that do not generally have racing!

Countries such as India and China, and from what I see, these immigrants just are not interested in harness racing.

They are known to be very active gamblers at Casino’s but they just do not bother with harness racing for some reason?

Plenty around but not at racetracks or the TAB!

 

 

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Brodie said:

The thing about Auckland is that the population has spiralled out of control due to immigration from countries that do not generally have racing!

Countries such as India and China, and from what I see, these immigrants just are not interested in harness racing.

They are known to be very active gamblers at Casino’s but they just do not bother with harness racing for some reason?

Plenty around but not at racetracks or the TAB!

 

 

i agree.

you know, you've just made a very important point.

Its a point,which you can see clearly,i can see clearly,but just slips through to the keeper for so many.

I'm sure for many of those in charge at hrnz,they don't get it and i've even read on this forum ,someone who  says they live in auckland,refer to asains in auckland,as if their ethnicity somehow is a postive for harness racing.

I've known many dozens of asain gamblers,but the ones i've known  gamble  on the pokies and particularly at the casino's(that is the better off ones prefer the casino's)And the younger ones prefer those types of gambling on line.

I mean,as i've posted before,go to a harness race meeting,look around you. Go to a local tab,look around you.

people of european and maori ethnicity are those who make up the bulk of harness racing customers.

Its not only asains who gamble in low numbers on harness racing,its pacific peoples,middle eastern people,african  nations.

looking at the stats,a couple of years ago,31% of aucklanders were asain,17% pacific people and 3% middle eatern,latin american and african.

So thats half of aucklands population that have ethnicity that is very unlikely to ever be involved in harness racing.

 

Edited April 20 by the galah