Riccarton Turf Club?

[Chief Stipe]

24 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I don't think the recently appointed head of NZTR had ever held a racing job previously.

Doesn't mean he doesn't have "an interest in racing".  

26 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Didn't we have a TAB or racing board head a few years ago who said he had never set foot in a TAB?

Probably a lawyer or such but had an interest in racing.  For quite some time now you don't need to walk into a TAB to have an account.  

28 minutes ago, Doomed said:

People may well argue that a CEO's job is to manage people with the requisite skills. That may well be true, but at the same time they can't claim they have an affinity for racing at the grass roots level.

Define the "grass roots level"?  Imagine the uproar if they hired someone for the top job whose only experience was as a Stablehand. 
"Grassroots", "The Coalface" and even "Battler" are just metaphors to describe something that is often very fluid in definition.  It seems more and more we categorise and label individuals as a means to create virtual tribes which are then pitted against each other. 

[curious]

57 minutes ago, Doomed said:

 Didn't we have a TAB or racing board head a few years ago who said he had never set foot in a TAB?

Can't say I've been in a TAB myself since the 70s but I wouldn't consider that to mean I don't have an interest or active involvement in racing.

[Doomed]

6 hours ago, curious said:

Can't say I've been in a TAB myself since the 70s but I wouldn't consider that to mean I don't have an interest or active involvement in racing.

I probably should have phrased it as never having had a bet. I think it may have been John Allen.

[Huey]

22 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Define the "grass roots level"?  Imagine the uproar if they hired someone for the top job whose only experience was as a Stablehand. 
"Grassroots", "The Coalface" and even "Battler" are just metaphors to describe something that is often very fluid in definition.  It seems more and more we categorise and label individuals as a means to create virtual tribes which are then pitted against each other. 

I don't see it that way , a grass roots person nowadays would simply be someone who has some empathy for those battling away at the coalface and understood the necessity and relevance of that and had some influence.

That has not occurred for many many years here in NZ.

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Huey said:

I don't see it that way , a grass roots person nowadays would simply be someone who has some empathy for those battling away at the coalface and understood the necessity and relevance of that and had some influence.

That has not occurred for many many years here in NZ.

Well based on that description some of the very people you openly deride would fit the bill.  Yet it seems being successful excludes them from your list.

 

[Freda]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

I don't see it that way , a grass roots person nowadays would simply be someone who has some empathy for those battling away at the coalface and understood the necessity and relevance of that and had some influence.

That has not occurred for many many years here in NZ.

I agree, and it is possible to be. both, surely?

I refer specifically to former CJC CEO Dave Lloyd,  an office-bearer at Te Aroha, Ellerslie, I think Macau ( stand to be corrected on that ) and the infamous Wuhan in China.

As well, a former owner-breeder- trainer and with heavy involvement still with family interests in several horses .

I'm sure not everyone agreed with him all the time but  grassroots empathy was certainly not lacking.

On a completely different tack, another former CEO, Lindsay Crocker attracted some criticism because he was NOT a horseman.

But as far as I was concerned he was great,  he was courteous, listened and took the time to be advised and act accordingly.  I couldn't fault him.

Edited Saturday at 12:46 AM by Freda

[Huey]

6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Well based on that description some of the very people you openly deride would fit the bill.  Yet it seems being successful excludes them from your list.

 

Do tell I'm all ears 👂... who?

[Chief Stipe]

21 minutes ago, Huey said:

Do tell I'm all ears 👂... who?

Are you blind?

[Huey]

12 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Are you blind?

No not yet, fingers crossed never .

Do tell me of these people I'm more than intrigued to know!

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Huey said:

No not yet, fingers crossed never .

Do tell me of these people I'm more than intrigued to know!

Peter Vela for one.  Started from the  "grass roots" for literally everything that he's achieved.  

[curious]

32 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Peter Vela for one.  Started from the  "grass roots" for literally everything that he's achieved.  

Yep. A go to bloke to get grass roots issues sorted.

[Huey]

11 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Peter Vela for one.  Started from the  "grass roots" for literally everything that he's achieved.  

Looking forward to his amazing Grass roots insights in his new role , people do progress beyond what you would describe as Grassroots you do know that? 

I'm guessing next you'll be telling me the Lindsays are grass roots because they started their own business , then I'm guessing it'll be your idol over there at Te Akau after that? 

You seriously thing any of them have an ounce of empathy for the Grass roots in the sport?

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Huey said:

Looking forward to his amazing Grass roots insights in his new role , people do progress beyond what you would describe as Grassroots you do know that? 

I don't actually describe people as "Grassroots" - you do and I was using your definition.

2 hours ago, Huey said:

I'm guessing next you'll be telling me the Lindsays are grass roots because they started their own business , then I'm guessing it'll be your idol over there at Te Akau after that? 

Yes to both.

2 hours ago, Huey said:

You seriously thing any of them have an ounce of empathy for the Grass roots in the sport?

Yes I know first hand that one very much does and from what I've heard and read so do the other two.

It is up to you to provide evidence to the contrary.

BTW they only got to the position they are in now through hard work, savvy business decisions and an ability to find a good horse.  They're not the type of people to forget where they've come from nor are they the type of people to stop doing the hard work.

The ball is in your court.

[Huey]

20 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I don't actually describe people as "Grassroots" - you do and I was using your definition.

Yes to both.

Yes I know first hand that one very much does and from what I've heard and read so do the other two.

It is up to you to provide evidence to the contrary.

BTW they only got to the position they are in now through hard work, savvy business decisions and an ability to find a good horse.  They're not the type of people to forget where they've come from nor are they the type of people to stop doing the hard work.

The ball is in your court.

I thought you'd wriggle your way out of it Chief,  you certainly weren't making any sense.

[Chief Stipe]

8 hours ago, Huey said:

I thought you'd wriggle your way out of it Chief,  you certainly weren't making any sense.

I'm not the one wriggling.  You are the one that hasn't posted any evidence to support your assertion.

[Freda]

 

 

On 14/06/2025 at 11:09 AM, Huey said:

I don't see it that way , a grass roots person nowadays would simply be someone who has some empathy for those battling away at the coalface and understood the necessity and relevance of that and had some influence.

That has not occurred for many many years here in NZ.

 

33 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm not the one wriggling.  You are the one that hasn't posted any evidence to support your assertion.

This is becoming circular.

I think the two main protagonists both have valid points. 

No one is deriding the efforts, business savvy, dedication and astute judgement that underscores the huge successes that the appointed committee collectively has had. 

But ( as the saying goes) there but for the Grace of God....and so on.

It remains to be seen whether any actually comprehend the handicapping, date structure and race programming issues that have been highlighted for a decade or more and have been firmly ignored.

If increasing betting revenue and building a healthy industry for the future ( once the Entain largesse finishes) is the focus of the group, then these issues must be dealt with.  Probably only Chris Waller could comprehend the utter idiocy of throwing yet more money at the top end and strangling the small players even more.

Breeders have pushed their own barrow too long to the detriment of the overall industry and also allowing the distortion of the Pattern.  Something that should be pivotal to the thinking of any breeder.

Hopefully my fears are unfounded and a New Beginning is upon us.

 

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

It remains to be seen whether any actually comprehend the handicapping, date structure and race programming issues that have been highlighted for a decade or more and have been firmly ignored

Does anyone truly comprehend the issues?

1 hour ago, Freda said:

Probably only Chris Waller could comprehend the utter idiocy of throwing yet more money at the top end and strangling the small players even more.

That's been going on for at least 25 years or more.   Then again the strangled small players only need one good horse.

1 hour ago, Freda said:

Breeders have pushed their own barrow too long to the detriment of the overall industry and also allowing the distortion of the Pattern.  Something that should be pivotal to the thinking of any breeder.

How have they "pushed their barrows"?  It is assumed that The Breeders made all the "detrimental" decisions.  But did they?  If for arguments sake they did where were the other stakeholder voices?  Why weren't the other industry associations on the ball? 

That said are some criticising with the benefit of hindsight?

BTW the discussion with @Huey isn't circular its a dead end because he never provides any specific detail just generalises about a successful group of people he labels "Whales".  

[Freda]

8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Does anyone truly comprehend the issues?

That's been going on for at least 25 years or more.   Then again the strangled small players only need one good horse.

How have they "pushed their barrows"?  It is assumed that The Breeders made all the "detrimental" decisions.  But did they?  If for arguments sake they did where were the other stakeholder voices?  Why weren't the other industry associations on the ball? 

That said are some criticising with the benefit of hindsight?

BTW the discussion with @Huey isn't circular its a dead end because he never provides any specific detail just generalises about a successful group of people he labels 5"Whales".  

Thought it was Whiteman who uses that term.

[Chief Stipe]

15 minutes ago, Freda said:

Thought it was Whiteman who uses that term.

I don't know Whiteman.

[Huey]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Does anyone truly comprehend the issues?

That's been going on for at least 25 years or more.   Then again the strangled small players only need one good horse.

How have they "pushed their barrows"?  It is assumed that The Breeders made all the "detrimental" decisions.  But did they?  If for arguments sake they did where were the other stakeholder voices?  Why weren't the other industry associations on the ball? 

That said are some criticising with the benefit of hindsight?

BTW the discussion with @Huey isn't circular its a dead end because he never provides any specific detail just generalises about a successful group of people he labels "Whales".  

Haven't named anyone a whale, as Freda says thats Col W territory .

The only attempt at circles is from CS , name this list of grass roots protagonists that are going to assist with a recovery at the base of the sport. CS gets like this when he knows he is talking proverbial nonsense.

 

Like I said I'm all ears!! Do tell who these people are ???

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Huey said:

Haven't named anyone a whale, as Freda says thats Col W territory .

 

Oh I thought it was synonymous with your term "Matamata Mafia"!

2 hours ago, Huey said:

The only attempt at circles is from CS , name this list of grass roots protagonists that are going to assist with a recovery at the base of the sport. CS gets like this when he knows he is talking proverbial nonsense.

 

I did.  We are all awaiting your critique of why they can't help with the "recovery of the sport".

@Huey as always you are talking vague generalities.  Come on be specific.

2 hours ago, Huey said:

Like I said I'm all ears!! Do tell who these people are ???

Avoidance again @Huey - we are all waiting for your critique of those already named.

[Freda]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

Thought it was Whiteman who uses that term.

Oops...Wightman.  

[TAB For Ever]

Have only skimmed the recent chat on this thread which began as the Riccarton Turf Club ......the club which exists cos of?????????? ,for ??????? and really is a working sub committee of Riccarton Park [ CJC ].

And sorry to interfere the chit-chat of the 'Tight Five' who seem to be getting tired of playing with themselves.

Does familiarity breed contempt ?

There is always contempt and cynicism thrown at big breeders....to me breeding racehorses commercially is a tough gig.

Certainly not easy to make money in......one needs to own a good chunk of land with good facilities to house both horse and staff , staff who are skilled and OK with working all hours . To be commercial they need to have quite expensive stallions and mares plus a touch of luck.

Not easy to make a buck.

Probably explains why the modern stud principal has made money before they actually got into Breeding , knowing how hard it would be.

The three breeding folk chosen to assess the local scene all made money from businesses well away from racing.

Velas started fishing from the rocks before investing in a small dinghy while they lived under a bridge. BL started making coat hangers in his garage before buying his plastics business which became a world recognised brand , his racing interests developed from a few 50cent bets at the local TAB . Harness breeder KBreckon had little interest in racing but was swept into it by his late brother who purchased a costly filly and needed a partner to help fund it ! When the bro sadly passed away when young ,Ken continued on and bouyed by his filly's success also found he enjoyed giving the TAB a decent crack , especially when his Irrigation/plumbing business took off in tandem with his success as an owner when he owned NZ's champion Trotter for a couple of years.

Mainly because of their success in business were these 3 x able to invest in their studs....starting with a large fortune to earn a small one ! In the case of BLindsay ,I doubt whether any other Kiwi would have had the means to keep Cambridge Stud in NZ-ownership. All 3 x have considerable racing Stock to pay for each week and all 3 contribute hugely in Race and Industry sponsorship.

And at least 2 x of them hardly miss a weekly race meeting and take friends and family along too !

True Racing enthusiasts and I salute them !

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Oh I thought it was synonymous with your term "Matamata Mafia"!

I did.  We are all awaiting your critique of why they can't help with the "recovery of the sport".

@Huey as always you are talking vague generalities.  Come on be specific.

Avoidance again @Huey - we are all waiting for your critique of those already named.

Always the same with you @Chief Stipe you never name specifics , especially about those you worship, the floor is yours you made the claim to begin with. - I'm still all ears!