Chief Stipe Posted Friday at 10:44 PM Posted Friday at 10:44 PM The following two pictures were posted by @Thomass to supposedly highlight whip abuse. They are snapshots presumably taken from a TV replay of the race. They were posted in the largest possible format allowed on BOAY - no doubt to emphasise the point being made. It is questionable that the horse is being hit on the flank (defined as the area between the ribs and the hip - not sure what the racing rule definition is) or that the pictures are even in close sequence. The first picture is chosen to create a visual impression of extreme force - the second picture suggests that force was exerted on the flank of the horse. Now look at these pictures in the context of what the "normal" viewer sees on Trackside in the no more than two minutes it takes for the broadcast of the race before Trackside broadcast the next race from some remote location in Australia. Watch the video below at normal speed or even slow motion. Bearing in mind that the only way a Steward could see how the whip was used and the number of strikes for every individual is to sit in a bunker watching a High Definition video in ultra slow motion. Now go back and count every whip strike and location of the strike for every Jockey. What's more do you think and Animal Rights Activist who doesn't like racing would have seen anything unless something had been snapshotted out context? Greyhound Racing created a rod for their backs with the creation of KPI's that they had no way of influencing beyond a certain point or at all. I hope Horse Racing doesn't do the same.
Freda Posted Friday at 11:01 PM Posted Friday at 11:01 PM Believe it or not, I actually do get your point. Both about the videos and about the 'rod for the back'. But highlighting what appears to be misuse is the only thing we CAN do. And when the best of the international riders get it right more often than not, it clearly is not impossible to manage. I found an interesting teaching video of an American former jockey, on a mechanical horse showing young riders how to swap the whip over into the other hand smoothly. Showed it to a local mentor, who seemed not to be very interested. After a few weeks I asked what the response was? Oh, he said, it was thought to be too advanced and not suitable for apprentices. FFS.
curious Posted Friday at 11:17 PM Posted Friday at 11:17 PM Here it is in a clip direct from the NZTR replay. You shouldn't need to bother with slomo. A blindman could see it. vlc-record-2025-06-21-11h10m59s-Video player NZRacing_2025 06 21_11 04 16_1_391.mp4-.mp4 1
Chief Stipe Posted Friday at 11:31 PM Author Posted Friday at 11:31 PM 1 hour ago, curious said: Here it is in a clip direct from the NZTR replay. You shouldn't need to bother with slomo. A blindman could see it. vlc-record-2025-06-21-11h10m59s-Video player NZRacing_2025 06 21_11 04 16_1_391.mp4-.mp4 1.06 MB · 0 downloads FFS have you got Superman eyes? Now you are taking 2 second clips out of context.
curious Posted Friday at 11:35 PM Posted Friday at 11:35 PM How is it out of context? It's a direct unedited clip from the replay video. Strike on the flank from arm above shoulder. Anyone in the stand or watching the tv replay would see it but not a mention from the stipes. 1
Gammalite Posted yesterday at 12:33 AM Posted yesterday at 12:33 AM 44 minutes ago, curious said: How is it out of context? It's a direct unedited clip from the replay video. Strike on the flank from arm above shoulder. Anyone in the stand or watching the tv replay would see it but not a mention from the stipes. From what you are saying , i have just viewed a few races from the famous Royal Ascot. currently being run in front of a viewing audience of Millions. you are dead right , and in some of these races you notice a Huge Flank whack they give them once every 50m or so up that huge long straightaway at Royal Ascot. one example, CARMERS won a staying race the Queens Vase on wednesday , leading turning in and tired by just kept up to it with a smashing whack every 50m or so. I'd put the video here but it is too disturbing really. 🙄 The horse was wandering about but the combination of the Blinkers (Chief will hate that) and the BIG big Whacks saw the 3 yearold take the victory, when it otherwise wouldn't of. so It is Whack and Win . even at the Biggest stage of all at Royal Ascot. There is a SOLUTION , and a very easy one. we did it at the harness racing . and that is You must keep both hands on the reins AT ALL TIMES. i.e NOT have reins in one hand. means your scope of whip use GREATLY reduced to probably just a slap on the shoulder as the horse is ridden out , and there would be ZERO flank strikes. easy peesie solution.
Chief Stipe Posted yesterday at 12:41 AM Author Posted yesterday at 12:41 AM 1 hour ago, Freda said: Believe it or not, I actually do get your point. Both about the videos and about the 'rod for the back'. But highlighting what appears to be misuse is the only thing we CAN do. No it isn't. Complain immediately to the Stipes. Make a complaint now. Ask for an explanation. Don't put the offending Jockeys on your horses. 1 hour ago, Freda said: And when the best of the international riders get it right more often than not, it clearly is not impossible to manage. Do they? Google "James Macdonald Jockey whip penalty" and you will see has a very long list of crimes as do ALL the top Jockeys. Also observe how many Jockeys hold their whip in the hand away from the camera and switch hands depending on the racecourse direction.
Freda Posted yesterday at 12:56 AM Posted yesterday at 12:56 AM 13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: No it isn't. Complain immediately to the Stipes. Make a complaint now. Ask for an explanation. Don't put the offending Jockeys on your horses. Do they? Google "James Macdonald Jockey whip penalty" and you will see has a very long list of crimes as do ALL the top Jockeys. Also observe how many Jockeys hold their whip in the hand away from the camera and switch hands depending on the racecourse direction. I did say more often than not...and they switch their whip to suit the horse, not the effing camera.
billy connolly Posted yesterday at 01:06 AM Posted yesterday at 01:06 AM 2 hours ago, Freda said: I found an interesting teaching video of an American former jockey, on a mechanical horse showing young riders how to swap the whip over into the other hand smoothly. Swapping the whip is the least and last thing apprentice jockeys should be concerned about and in my view it's questionable whether it should be permitted at all. 2 hours ago, Freda said: But highlighting what appears to be misuse is the only thing we CAN do. Ironical that the majority of the slow bastards you've been associated with are the very ones who are in need of the whip the most, flank or no flank.
Murray Fish Posted yesterday at 04:12 AM Posted yesterday at 04:12 AM 3 hours ago, billy connolly said: Ironical that the majority of the slow bastards you've been associated share a list of your fast ones! but as we *know* you are nothing but a misogynous creton, eh! now feckoff back under the rock you always hide under! 1
curious Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago This is one of the worse examples today where the horse is not only struck on the flank but by the reinforced part of the stick before the flap hits. This would be largely avoided if the whip was used correctly on the hindquarters where mostly the flap would be applied and with less force because the direct up and down force is not able to be applied with the reaching back motion. https://loveracing.nz/RaceInfo/53389/4/Race-Detail.aspx
Chief Stipe Posted 4 hours ago Author Posted 4 hours ago @curious have you and @Comic Dog passed your pictures onto the RIU? Just asking for your friend @Thomass.
curious Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago (edited) 8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: @curious have you and @Comic Dog passed your pictures onto the RIU? Just asking for your friend @Thomass. I've said this before, it's not the RIU's responsibility. It's NZTR's to fix the rules and penalties and ensure they are enforced and neither NZTR, nor their welfare team think there is a problem. I have that in writing. The RIU is only their contractor for the enforcement part of that. If they are not doing their job then it's up to NZTR to sort them out which it seems the won't. Aside from that. NZTR and the RIU already have those pics. That's who I got them from. Edited 4 hours ago by curious
Chief Stipe Posted 4 hours ago Author Posted 4 hours ago 15 minutes ago, curious said: I've said this before, it's not the RIU's responsibility. It's NZTR's to fix the rules and penalties and ensure they are enforced and neither NZTR, nor their welfare team think there is a problem. I have that in writing. The RIU is only their contractor for the enforcement part of that. If they are not doing their job then it's up to NZTR to sort them out which it seems the won't. Aside from that. NZTR and the RIU already have those pics. That's who I got them from. You got them by playing the video in slow motion and then zooming in and taking a snapshot - did you not? A bit of a stretch to say NZTR them to you. However if you are serious about your Crusade I'm sure you have sent your snapshots to both NZTR and the RIU. I'm certain SAFE and associated Journalists have them now. Feel free to post what you get back.
curious Posted 3 hours ago Posted 3 hours ago 7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: You got them by playing the video in slow motion and then zooming in and taking a snapshot - did you not? No. I didn't play in slow motion, nor zoom in. 8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: However if you are serious about your Crusade I'm sure you have sent your snapshots to both NZTR and the RIU. I'm sure they can see the snap shots themselves. They read this site don't they? This is the response from NZTR on the matter. We are comfortable with the current Whip Rules and where they sit on an international scale. Minor amendments were processed last week following the Asian Racing Conference’s Rules Harmonisation meeting. We will continue to work the Racing Integrity Board to ensure that any breaches of the Whip Rules are dealt with appropriately under the Penalty Guidelines
Chief Stipe Posted 3 hours ago Author Posted 3 hours ago 23 minutes ago, curious said: I'm sure they can see the snap shots themselves. They read this site don't they? FFS stop playing thick @curious (although I'm not sure why you are working with the brains trust on other side). Posting anonymously on ANY form of Social Media is NOT communicating with them DIRECTLY. I see zillions are lining up to support you.
curious Posted 3 hours ago Posted 3 hours ago 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: FFS stop playing thick @curious (although I'm not sure why you are working with the brains trust on other side). Posting anonymously on ANY form of Social Media is NOT communicating with them DIRECTLY. I see zillions are lining up to support you. What I posted above was the result of direct communication with NZTR. What else do you suggest I do that might get a response?
Special Agent Posted 2 hours ago Posted 2 hours ago 59 minutes ago, curious said: We are comfortable with the current Whip Rules and where they sit on an international scale. Really? I thought in other countries there was almost no use of whip and is it France where you can only use a whip 4 or 5 times per race? "Rules Harmonisation Meeting". Goodness, the minutes from that meeting would be an interesting read. The wording from NZTR is magical, in someone's world anyway.
Chief Stipe Posted 2 hours ago Author Posted 2 hours ago FFS I see someone can see welts on picture taken as a part frame from a TV video. Geez you are really doing well in your Crusade @curious.
Chief Stipe Posted 2 hours ago Author Posted 2 hours ago 1 hour ago, curious said: No. I didn't play in slow motion, nor zoom in. Right you picked it up in real time and then went back and stopped the video at the exact spot you wanted. You've got your platform elsewhere for your Crusade - fill ya boots.
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