Will You Now Bet More With Tab / Betcha?

[Chief Stipe]

Actually @Newmarket instead of pissing around I'll make it easier for you.  2015 is earlier than 2023 - is it not?  See attachment.

However it was floated before then.

 

Working Group - Final Report October 2015.pdf

[Shab]

Don't see the point in playing the scripted interview with Nick Roberts and the ads they're running. Punters already know they've been shafted. Why keep rubbing their noses in it.

[Newmarket]

16 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Actually @Newmarket instead of pissing around I'll make it easier for you.  2015 is earlier than 2023 - is it not?  See attachment.

However it was floated before then.

Working Group - Final Report October 2015.pdf 935.75 kB · 2 downloads

This so called working group was nonsense….nothing was ever mentioned that it would be illegal for NZ punters to bet overseas, they discussed all the other fluffy stuff. 
 

Say what you want, this is all about Entain calling the shots, 

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Newmarket said:

This so called working group was nonsense….nothing was ever mentioned that it would be illegal for NZ punters to bet overseas, they discussed all the other fluffy stuff. 
 

Say what you want, this is all about Entain calling the shots, 

Do you live in a bubble?  The plan to ban has been on the agenda for over a decade.  I can't be bothered listing the complete timeline BEFORE ENTAIN pitched up.  ENTAIN didn't ask for it is was always on the table.  What was up for negotiation was how much ENTAIN would pay for it 

I suggest you ditch your anti-ENTAIN bias and buy some shares.

[Newmarket]

21 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Do you live in a bubble?  The plan to ban has been on the agenda for over a decade.  I can't be bothered listing the complete timeline BEFORE ENTAIN pitched up.  ENTAIN didn't ask for it is was always on the table.  What was up for negotiation was how much ENTAIN would pay for it 

I suggest you ditch your anti-ENTAIN bias and buy some shares.

Ya dreaming….

As for shares, well I have not heard anyone say they will spend their overseas spend now in NZ…. and no way will Entain be allowed to take Aus greyhound races for betting…. the Greenies will see to that….. so not gonna be too good for Entain…. 

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

Ya dreaming….

As for shares, well I have not heard anyone say they will spend their overseas spend now in NZ…. and no way will Entain be allowed to take Aus greyhound races for betting…. the Greenies will see to that….. so not gonna be too good for Entain…. 

Well ENTAIN is 74th on the FTSE 100 and a market capitalisation of €6billion.

[Murray Fish]

10 hours ago, Shab said:

the scripted interview with Nick Roberts

a interview where heh (to my eye) smirked his way through the whole way! as if? it was rather practiced..  guess we just have to wait to see how the punters bet! or not!

[MaltedMilkshake]

11 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Do you live in a bubble?  The plan to ban has been on the agenda for over a decade.  I can't be bothered listing the complete timeline BEFORE ENTAIN pitched up.  ENTAIN didn't ask for it is was always on the table.  What was up for negotiation was how much ENTAIN would pay for it 

I suggest you ditch your anti-ENTAIN bias and buy some shares.

Of course racings dirty little secret ''did the TAB trade whilst insolvent '' will never ever be addressed will it? ENTAIN saved many from possible/probable prosecution and now are enjoying the fruits of their labours, but for how long?

They have an escape clause, if the trajectory is maintained they will need it, sooner rather than later.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

Of course racings dirty little secret ''did the TAB trade whilst insolvent '' will never ever be addressed will it? ENTAIN saved many from possible/probable prosecution and now are enjoying the fruits of their labours, but for how long?

Hardly a secret.  Was clearly evident in the annual accounts year on year.

1 hour ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

They have an escape clause, if the trajectory is maintained they will need it, sooner rather than later.

The trajectory would have improved as ENTAIN was in a position to negotiate out of the financially crippling contracts that TABNZ was entered into.

One of those was the betting system which ENTAIN already owned. 

Of course we no longer have full visibility of the accounts or turnover with ENTAIN being a private company.

Overall though ENTAIN is recovering strongly this year - the question is do they drop the NZ business.  The reason they may not is that once the five years is up they enter into a profit sharing arrangement.  In that scenario it isn't inconceivable that the cash available for stakes will drop substantially.

[MaltedMilkshake]

If as you say it was common knowledge the insolvent trading, why was nothing done?

Why weren't people held to account? Is there corruption afoot? or was there something even more sinister within the machination of TAB. NZTR etc........?

As to ENTAIN being in a healthier position, well that a contentious issue, I wonder how things are going to look in say, 5 years.

The bitter enemy of racing is apathy, and that's all apparent in NZ, those that do give a fuck are ostracised by those that only have personal interest at heart and therefore the silent majority stay silent.

[Freda]

45 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

If as you say it was common knowledge the insolvent trading, why was nothing done?

something was done, the Govt bailed the bloody place out.

Why weren't people held to account? Is there corruption afoot? or was there something even more sinister within the machination of TAB. NZTR etc........?

are people EVER held to account - when it matters?  the little people caught nicking petty cash, yeah..but other stuff?  

 As to ENTAIN being in a healthier position, well that a contentious issue, I wonder how things are going to look in say, 5 years.

How things look in 2.5 years is of more interest to a lot.

The bitter enemy of racing is apathy, and that's all apparent in NZ, those that do give a fuck are ostracised by those that only have personal interest at heart and therefore the silent majority stay silent.

Yep.

 

[Chief Stipe]

58 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

If as you say it was common knowledge the insolvent trading, why was nothing done?

 

I understand there were a considerable number of discussions behind the scenes about the precarious situation the TAB was in.  However there was a disconnect between what the accounts were showing and what was being reported publically and to the Minister (McAnulty?).  Although with the latter I wouldn't be surprised if whoever was the Minister at the time didn't know the true picture.  Ultimately it culminated in the Minister (Winston Peters) publically showing displeasure and providing a bailout package at a politically convenient time.

Many of us on BOAY were posting here for a long time our analysis of the accounts.  I was particularly critical of McKenzie the transition CEO.

58 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

Why weren't people held to account? Is there corruption afoot? or was there something even more sinister within the machination of TAB. NZTR etc........?

What would they be held to account for?  There was hardly any corruption as the accounts were reporting accurately the state of the organisation.  A decade or two of incompetence and mismanagement definitely - corruption no.

Allen signed up to two or three contracts which were the millstones i.e. the Spark contract, the Broadcasting contract and the Betting system contract.  They were all contracts that stunk from the beginning and had all the characteristics of contracts negotiated by a Government Bureacrat.  

58 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

As to ENTAIN being in a healthier position, well that a contentious issue, I wonder how things are going to look in say, 5 years.

 

ENTAIN is a FTSE 100 company and could buy and sell our biggest companys.  They have taken some hits in the last two years but in the last 6 months their share price has rebounded by over 30%.  Once ENTAIN took over there would have been immediate cost savings e.g. the betting system contract.  I'm also sure that because of the change in operating structure ENTAIN as an experienced private sector company would have renegotiated many of the existing contracts.  They also had negotiated that after a period they could start to lay off staff.  Now I'm not sure that this is the case but for example why would you need two sets of bookies in the Australian and NZ market?  

In all core overheads would have reduced since the takeover.  

58 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

The bitter enemy of racing is apathy, and that's all apparent in NZ, those that do give a fuck are ostracised by those that only have personal interest at heart and therefore the silent majority stay silent.

Sadly that is, in my opinion, a malaise inherent to NZ as a whole.  Racing is a competitive sport and everyone is into to win.  Afterall that is the essence of racing.  Where things have failed, and have failed for a very long time, is sectors in the industry haven't had strong sector organisations with strong leadership.  When they do try to stamp their feet they get it wrong and look stupid.

An example of that is the recent Owners and Trainers Association call to action over the tracks.  The outcome was that they blamed track managers NOT themselves for promoting increased stakes for decades at the neglect of maintaining infrastructure.  Which doesn't surprise me because how many Owners or Trainers have ever bothered to walk a track on a regular basis.

[Chief Stipe]

14 hours ago, Newmarket said:

This so called working group was nonsense….nothing was ever mentioned that it would be illegal for NZ punters to bet overseas, they discussed all the other fluffy stuff. 
 

Say what you want, this is all about Entain calling the shots, 

Have you read the report?  The banning of access to overseas operators was definitely floated as an option to stop leakage.  It was actually Option A.  However it was rejected as the favoured option for a number of reasons - one of them being the difficulty of enforcement.  Which ironically is what you are complaining about.  What was being investigated was how to get a fair return on the NZ racing product (and sports) that has been invested heavily in.

[curious]

3 hours ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

Of course racings dirty little secret ''did the TAB trade whilst insolvent '' will never ever be addressed will it? ENTAIN saved many from possible/probable prosecution and now are enjoying the fruits of their labours, but for how long?

They have an escape clause, if the trajectory is maintained they will need it, sooner rather than later.

What do you mean by an escape clause?

[Newmarket]

58 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Have you read the report?  The banning of access to overseas operators was definitely floated as an option to stop leakage.  It was actually Option A.  However it was rejected as the favoured option for a number of reasons - one of them being the difficulty of enforcement.  Which ironically is what you are complaining about.  What was being investigated was how to get a fair return on the NZ racing product (and sports) that has been invested heavily in.

Yes I read that…..

Look, my main peeve is that NZ Racing is dependant more than ever on punters, so even if a punter never bets on NZ racing and only overseas sports, he is effectively helping NZ racing restore tracks, starting gates, stakes, upgrades….. it’s just fucken greedy, entitled pricks that think the can do what they want….. poor old punters getting it up the arse again. 
 

Just imagine tomorrow being told that NO overseas wine can be purchased…. as we need to protect local growers, end of story…

 

[curious]

9 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

Just imagine tomorrow being told that NO overseas wine can be purchased…. as we need to protect local growers, end of story…

Now that would really be tragic

[Newmarket]

39 minutes ago, curious said:

Now that would really be tragic

Haha….

Yeah sorry about that example, but really where will it stop? I find the whole thing so inconsistent. And let’s face it, the whole gambling awareness shit is BS, if they were serious they would have stopped on line casinos, far more addictive than nags….then the dogs, going in NZ but don’t worry, you can still bet on them in Aus, I’m sure they are better treated and have zero injuries….

[Murray Fish]

4 hours ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

The bitter enemy of racing is apathy,

I could suggest that it is the shrinking disposable income that the  NZ working class has! that has been falling since mid 80's. It rather mirrors the decline of the Industry here in NZ!

[Murray Fish]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

They have taken some hits in the last two years but in the last 6 months their share price has rebounded by over 30%

In the modern world capitalist economy is that a actual true gauge of how well they are doing?

[Murray Fish]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Where things have failed, and have failed for a very long time, is sectors in the industry haven't had strong sector organisations with strong leadership.  When they do try to stamp their feet they get it wrong and look stupid.

the ever problem of each Trainer having to massage their owners that the investment is worth it!  especially to the big spenders, who of course have the back stop of being able to right off x loses via being breeders or buying to get a $talion!

[Murray Fish]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

What was being investigated was how to get a fair return on the NZ racing product (and sports) that has been invested heavily in.

correct me if I am wrong?   Doesn't overseas betting on races now be larger now?  I presume that it would be the same for sports betting as well! 

[Murray Fish]

1 hour ago, Newmarket said:

it’s just fucken greedy, entitled pricks that think the can do what they want….. poor old punters getting it up the arse again. 
 

tick, very much why I 'chose' not to bet..  

[Murray Fish]

1 hour ago, Newmarket said:

And let’s face it, the whole gambling awareness shit is BS,

Policy developed by  Pinocchio and Co!