alumni racing show -15 may 2025-michael antoniades

[the galah]

i just had a listen to this show and i think everybody should listen to it if they are interested in what harness racing can do to prosper.

obviously the usa is different with their simulcasts and so many tracks with casinos and obviously given nz harness have very little control over trackside coverage.

But many of the things he says the industry needs to occur to prosper,well the industry is doing theopposite.

The faster you make the tracks ,the worse your racing is,the less your turnover. (too many front end dominated races)-(-using that observation of his ,i  think you could add the more sprints you have the less the turnover) 

Do you have a horse shortage or a track and race day excess. You have to adapt to market conditions.

whats the interest of the betting supplier(tab/entain). If its racing then they will focus on harness racing and it will prosper-. If its cainos(or sport) then racing will become secondary.. 

you have to drive the breeding industry with the racing industry,but the racing should always be the main focus.

not running competing high oprofile meetings against each other.

Delaying the start by a couple of minutes has a drastic efffect on increasing turnovers.

lowering takeout significantly increases turnover.

refuse the stakes paid if the number of starters is small.(i've mentioned that myself)

you can't run races at similar timeslots as major races elsewhere .

increased % handle on track  is important to support clubs to get people on track.

what are the stakes required to keep people happy. e.g. age group. If they need x amount to get people to race 2 year olds,they should provide it,but reduce the number of said 2 year old races to the level where they get good field sizes.If they are going to run small fields they will go broke.  

move the races to days where they generate turnover and coverage-even if it midweek.

people want as many days as they can get,but the more you spread it out the more people prefer to race in small fields ,the more you lose money.

given the market,there should be less races and tracks.

you have to adapt to market conditions.

Edited 20 hours ago by the galah

[the galah]

actually ,one thing i've observed over the last 25 years, is how stakemoney on south island nz harness has gone from being more than the south island gallops,to now being much less.

And the more i've thought about it the more its obvious why that is.

they get full fields becuase the horse population correlates with the number of races run.

that leads to a far more attractive betting product,which results in increased wagering,which leads to more returns to the industry which leads to increased sustainable stake levels.(and  they always get good timeslots and coverage).

 

[mikeynz]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

actually ,one thing i've observed over the last 25 years, is how stakemoney on south island nz harness has gone from being more than the south island gallops,to now being much less.

And the more i've thought about it the more its obvious why that is.

they get full fields becuase the horse population correlates with the number of races run.

that leads to a far more attractive betting product,which results in increased wagering,which leads to more returns to the industry which leads to increased sustainable stake levels.(and  they always get good timeslots and coverage).

 

 

1 hour ago, the galah said:

 

 

Good points, to the first post, maybe those thoughts and Mark Jones comments should be taken to heirachy of HRNZ and get their ideas, or explain their gameplan.

Edited 19 hours ago by mikeynz

[Westview]

12 hours ago, the galah said:

i just had a listen to this show and i think everybody should listen to it if they are interested in what harness racing can do to prosper.

obviously the usa is different with their simulcasts and so many tracks with casinos and obviously given nz harness have very little control over trackside coverage.

But many of the things he says the industry needs to occur to prosper,well the industry is doing theopposite.

The faster you make the tracks ,the worse your racing is,the less your turnover. (too many front end dominated races)-(-using that observation of his ,i  think you could add the more sprints you have the less the turnover) 

Do you have a horse shortage or a track and race day excess. You have to adapt to market conditions.

whats the interest of the betting supplier(tab/entain). If its racing then they will focus on harness racing and it will prosper-. If its cainos(or sport) then racing will become secondary.. 

you have to drive the breeding industry with the racing industry,but the racing should always be the main focus.

not running competing high oprofile meetings against each other.

Delaying the start by a couple of minutes has a drastic efffect on increasing turnovers.

lowering takeout significantly increases turnover.

refuse the stakes paid if the number of starters is small.(i've mentioned that myself)

you can't run races at similar timeslots as major races elsewhere .

increased % handle on track  is important to support clubs to get people on track.

what are the stakes required to keep people happy. e.g. age group. If they need x amount to get people to race 2 year olds,they should provide it,but reduce the number of said 2 year old races to the level where they get good field sizes.If they are going to run small fields they will go broke.  

move the races to days where they generate turnover and coverage-even if it midweek.

people want as many days as they can get,but the more you spread it out the more people prefer to race in small fields ,the more you lose money.

given the market,there should be less races and tracks.

you have to adapt to market conditions.

Galah do you have a link to the show,  it should be compulsory viewing for everyone in our industry. There are so many points in your summary that are as Brodie would say "On the money ".

[Westview]

12 minutes ago, Westview said:

Galah do you have a link to the show,  it should be compulsory viewing for everyone in our industry. There are so many points in your summary that are as Brodie would say "On the money ".

Found it with the help of Mr Google 

[Gammalite]

Here's some Fair dinkum points to add to the list .

No Participants = No racing at all.... should be the main point.

The Gambling dollar on harness racing is SMALL compared to gallops, casinos, lotteries, pokies , even bloody scratches. There's 'no way known' you are going to 'Lure ' new outsiders.   It'll be just the Stonewall bloke, and a few big-time owners like him having any of the Big bets, that are already involved in the industry. I would say all the old Stalwarts at BOAY even bet LESS than they used to, and we all Love the Product.

and don't think the FAST tracks are the MAIN Player here .

The fact is we have the BEST HORSEMEN on the Planet Still competing and winning . Mark Purdon , and brother Barry and the Williamsons and Butchers , and Dixons and McMullens and McCarthy's and Hall's . + Emma Stewart.

So we are getting the FASTEST and BEST horses ever seen. Does this make the racing Worse ????????

Well the tote prices are quite short I spose ( Personally I never worry about the odds but most do) 

with FIVE of the Most Magnificent Majestic Creatures Ever to put a bridle on Winning the Interdominion over the past 10 years . no wonder the odds are short . ( i'll put some photos on their own thread ) 

15 hours ago, the galah said:

The faster you make the tracks ,the worse your racing is,the less your turnover.

 

[the galah]

58 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Here's some Fair dinkum points to add to the list .

No Participants = No racing at all.... should be the main point.

The Gambling dollar on harness racing is SMALL compared to gallops, casinos, lotteries, pokies , even bloody scratches. There's 'no way known' you are going to 'Lure ' new outsiders.   It'll be just the Stonewall bloke, and a few big-time owners like him having any of the Big bets, that are already involved in the industry. I would say all the old Stalwarts at BOAY even bet LESS than they used to, and we all Love the Product.

and don't think the FAST tracks are the MAIN Player here .

The fact is we have the BEST HORSEMEN on the Planet Still competing and winning . Mark Purdon , and brother Barry and the Williamsons and Butchers , and Dixons and McMullens and McCarthy's and Hall's . + Emma Stewart.

So we are getting the FASTEST and BEST horses ever seen. Does this make the racing Worse ????????

Well the tote prices are quite short I spose ( Personally I never worry about the odds but most do) 

with FIVE of the Most Magnificent Majestic Creatures Ever to put a bridle on Winning the Interdominion over the past 10 years . no wonder the odds are short . ( i'll put some photos on their own thread ) 

 

His conversation was about what the industry and tracks over there needed to do to be sustainable-basically he was talking about how turnovers dictate tracks either turning a profit or loss. How tracks that turned profits can prosper and tracks that didn't don't.And how he seemed to think it inevitable and just realism that the not profitable tracks would  and should close. Just market forces.

He obviously has been a highly sort after person and been involved in implementing policies at tracks which have turned around turnover and profitability.He has been involved in that for decades and had all the stats and numbers in his head.

the the fast tracks tyhing was one of several the factors he gave-he explained front end horses have an advantage,that fast tracks with bends make it too hard for backrunners to make moves and that was a factor in whether punters bet or did not bet.I mean isn't that obvious anyway.

at no point did he say anything about quality of horse being a factor. In fact he often referenced how clubs could make profits from a programme of lower grade claimers because the purses were not as significant-and how that was an important thing for thos tracks sustainabilty.

he actually mentioned some things i've mentioned before.e.g.

he said,timeslots can make or break a track.

reducing purses for small fields.

delays in races starting push turnovers up-that factor is a bit more complicated when it come sto nz as we rely on sky racing coverage in australia to boost turnover and as nz harness have no leverage due to it being tabcorp who run the racing channel,nz racing sometimes may lose coverage if races were delayed.

he refers to the meadowlands recently running racing with 20 minute gaps and running on time and saying how that was a bad decision. He said they should have known to delay the start as its what has always worked to get the turnover up-of course their coverage wouldn't be jammed in between a gallops meeting form taree and a dog race from ballarat like happens with nz harness.

But what i do think nz harness should seriously look at is eking out just a minute or so delay to the start of there nz races. Thats what they could do to help  turnover. Sky racing will still keep covering a meeting if it starts around under  2 minutes late if they can see in that last minute the horses are starting to line up and l begin within that time frame.Its not an over complicated thing. They could do things like have the mobile up the track from the horses a bit more and at the point in time he would normally start,he puts on a light on his mobile,backs up ,stops and then blows the whistle as per normal and only then do the horses start coming up. All tjhat would take up to a minute,people watching can see the start is happening and the clubs get an extra minutes coverage and turnovers increase. Or with standing starts,they revert back to what worked for 100 years,the horses starting on the front line form only 1 circle,thus i takes an extra 30 seconds to a minute  to line up ,and you get more people betting.

and they should never be running meetings with 40 minute gaps,nor 25 minute gaps. they should be a standards 30 minute gap. And when running 2 harness meetings they should never run one meeting with 10 minute gaps from the other meeting. As i said last week,auckland was not confirmed at least a couple of times before addington started.Do the people not understand how punters work if they are say sitting at a pub tab. They will not,go up to the machine,keep putting the betslip that had a collect form the previous race until it clears ,hoping they can hold up the que long enough for it to do that and them get a bet on the next race. I mean i know when the races start but i regularly get shut out myself because they either change the gaps between races of they haven't confirmed the previous harness race.

[Rangatira]

3 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Well the tote prices are quite short I spose ( Personally I never worry about the odds but most do) 

You sound more like a philanthropist than an investor.

[Gammalite]

18 minutes ago, Rangatira said:

You sound more like a philanthropist than an investor.

well had a bit of a dip here last week , posting 13 horses at BOAY  Friday and Saturday for 8 wins, 3 seconds and 2 4ths . so a pretty savvy investor if having a go lol 😂.  ( 2 of the second placings were beaten in close photo's too , and the other had to run 2nd anyway as was tipping the Quinella in that race with a toss-up. $9 Quinella in the end. 

Would rather be a Philanthropist like Kevin Seymour and give to the sport . or a Mick Boots with his support of a whole swag of trainers around the place with his many horse purchases to help keep them All in the game. Those boys being rewarded with racing Leap To Fame and Swayzee for their incredible efforts. 

50 minutes ago, the galah said:

at no point did he say anything about quality of horse being a factor

Once people stop 'recognising ' the important participants , then it's ONLY a money making exercise from then on. and appreciation of the main Player (the horse) does drop significantly as seen on BOAY and everywhere really.  And the investments ( and horses) are quickly forgotten once the 'Next' race comes along a few minutes later.

 

58 minutes ago, the galah said:

they should be a standards 30 minute gap. And when running 2 harness meetings they should never run one meeting with 10 minute gaps from the other meeting.

A standard gap of 30 minutes is excellent , as that give punters a chance to invest every 15 minutes (if following 2 meetings, and the Participating drivers/owners/jockeys/ trainers a chance to catch their breathe between races and talk about prospects and results with out the sprinting about to prepare the next runner without even time for a drink. 

A standard Familiar date for racing as well , so Punters can adopt routine. Friday night Lights has been excellent for that so NZ is showing real progress in some areas like that. (Saturday night would be best but not possible you say) 

 

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

well had a bit of a dip here last week , posting 13 horses at BOAY  Friday and Saturday for 8 wins, 3 seconds and 2 4ths . so a pretty savvy investor if having a go lol 😂.  ( 2 of the second placings were beaten in close photo's too , and the other had to run 2nd anyway as was tipping the Quinella in that race with a toss-up. $9 Quinella in the end. 

Would rather be a Philanthropist like Kevin Seymour and give to the sport . or a Mick Boots with his support of a whole swag of trainers around the place with his many horse purchases to help keep them All in the game. Those boys being rewarded with racing Leap To Fame and Swayzee for their incredible efforts. 

Once people stop 'recognising ' the important participants , then it's ONLY a money making exercise from then on. and appreciation of the main Player (the horse) does drop significantly as seen on BOAY and everywhere really.  And the investments ( and horses) are quickly forgotten once the 'Next' race comes along a few minutes later.

 

A standard gap of 30 minutes is excellent , as that give punters a chance to invest every 15 minutes (if following 2 meetings, and the Participating drivers/owners/jockeys/ trainers a chance to catch their breathe between races and talk about prospects and results with out the sprinting about to prepare the next runner without even time for a drink. 

A standard Familiar date for racing as well , so Punters can adopt routine. Friday night Lights has been excellent for that so NZ is showing real progress in some areas like that. (Saturday night would be best but not possible you say) 

 

that was very good selecting by you last week,hard to top that.

i'm not sure what you mean when you say-the appreciation of the main player,the horse does drop significantly as seen on bit of a yarn. Nnor where you say- people stop recognising the participants.

i've never read anyone say that on here or in general elsewhere.

if you listen to what that man said on that show,you can see everything he said is reflected in turnover figures,when those factors he mentions are at play in nz..

so,for the sake of the people and the horses in harness racing that you mention,,you need administrators implementing policies and procedures that maximise returns for industry participants.

and when you say,its only a money making exercise if people focus on how to maximise turnovers,well  that seems to undrervalue the importance of that somewhat.

Edited 46 minutes ago by the galah