race 1 invercargill start

[the galah]

anyone watching that must have thought it was a shocker.

 jay bee hill charging the tapes and starting about 10m in front of the others off the front line. So with the advantage of 10m and a fast moving start it ended about 25m in front after 50m.

If your having a bet,watching another horse get such an unfair advantage seems quite unfair and silly.

and they want people to bet on those races

how the starter didn't see what happened or did see it and allowed it was rather ridiculous.

Edited Sunday at 12:06 AM by the galah

[WOLF]

Agree with above.      “They want people to bet on these races” but they are not , if they go by the tote figures.Abysmal.   Treble on race 1 got to 5k + but that is another story for another day??

[mikeynz]

I will say for what's it's worth, some of those maiden trots do struggle tote pool wise, would doubt too many big bets on fixed odds either, just a lottery.

[mikeynz]

Probably find too that the afternoon turnovers will pick up once all the churchgoers have finished their Sunday lunches lol.

[Brodie]

Tote pools are just not worth the effort for any serious punter that wants to win!

Industry is in serious trouble with the risk averse policy that the TAB Bookies have adopted.

Just not going to work but then again it is all about toiled to them rather than turnover and profit.

Unfortunately their policy has a bigger negative flow on for attracting any new owners and punters to harness racing.

Gammalite keeps saying that it is wealthy men subsidising harness racing in several states in Oz.

There is no one in NZ that is stupid enough to fund TAB shortfall so if they don’t change their policy then things will be dire.

[mikeynz]

Not everyone is a serious punter, Trifectas, First 4s, Quaddies Doubles are all tote, naturally for win and place, top3, 4 you would want fixed but when there is plenty of depth in field totes still well supported, always will be, many don't worry.

Harness will get better turnovers when they get better fields, will that ever happen, that's the big question.

[Nowornever]

15 hours ago, mikeynz said:

Harness will get better turnovers when they get better fields

Grass tracks starting in a month. I am getting excited 😁

[Chief Stipe]

19 hours ago, Brodie said:

Unfortunately their policy has a bigger negative flow on for attracting any new owners and punters to harness racing.

Why?  Stakes are better than ever.  Owners don't need to worry as much about winning on the punt.

[Brodie]

34 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why?  Stakes are better than ever.  Owners don't need to worry as much about winning on the punt.

 They lose the promotion of racing by losing those that are the bigger punters.

No one races a horse for the stake money as an investment.

The returns are just not there nowadays that is why syndicates are increasing in numbers.

Turnover increase and profit would be greater if they actually like Bookies should.

Put up the odds. Take the wager and make the profit from the increased turnover.

When they take a wager and slash the fixed odds all they are doing is restricting turnover greatly as they don’t get anyone wagering on that horse again in sufficient amounts.

Hugely detrimental to the industry as serious punters are lost from punting and racing horses.

[Chief Stipe]

16 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Turnover increase and profit would be greater if they actually like Bookies should.

Put up the odds. Take the wager and make the profit from the increased turnover.

Right so you'd be happy to lose a million a year as long as you could have big bets?  

[Brodie]

8 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Right so you'd be happy to lose a million a year as long as you could have big bets?  

Chief, they are blowing money left right and centre from stakes, bonuses, and other poorly thought out implementations!

They are losing any opportunity to increase turnover and get new participants into harness racing.

They restrict punters that win and lose by adopting amounts that are pathetically low.

They put up odds as they think they should be at and then decide that no we don’t want punters wagering on them!

It is biting them in the proverbial!

[Chief Stipe]

6 hours ago, Brodie said:

Chief, they are blowing money left right and centre from stakes, bonuses, and other poorly thought out implementations!

So they are giving the money to Owners, Trainers and Drivers.  Hardly blowing it.

The only connection between the  Stakes for a race and the level of punting is that the latter part or in full pays for the former.

If Stakes were a dollar it wouldn't change the amount bet BUT very quickly there wouldn't be anyone providing any product to bet on. 

So the issue is providing a balance.  If the windfall profits are going into OTD pockets them just maybe they'll hang in there a bit longer.

You also assume that Owners and Trainers haven't had input into the racing programmes.  

[Brodie]

20 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

So they are giving the money to Owners, Trainers and Drivers.  Hardly blowing it.

The only connection between the  Stakes for a race and the level of punting is that the latter part or in full pays for the former.

If Stakes were a dollar it wouldn't change the amount bet BUT very quickly there wouldn't be anyone providing any product to bet on. 

So the issue is providing a balance.  If the windfall profits are going into OTD pockets them just maybe they'll hang in there a bit longer.

You also assume that Owners and Trainers haven't had input into the racing programmes.  

Chief, you know as well as I do that harness racing is not paying its way!

All the Entain money is  doing is giving a very false impression of the true state of play!

Frankly it is a poor indictment on the once great industry and to be having the financial lifeline that was the Entain  money,  used  the way it is just shows why the harness industry got it self in decline!

Anyway We cant worry about the inevitable and just have to wait and see how long it can continue once the money has run out!

[Chief Stipe]

39 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Chief, you know as well as I do that harness racing is not paying its way!

All the Entain money is  doing is giving a very false impression of the true state of play!

Frankly it is a poor indictment on the once great industry and to be having the financial lifeline that was the Entain  money,  used  the way it is just shows why the harness industry got it self in decline!

Anyway We cant worry about the inevitable and just have to wait and see how long it can continue once the money has run out!

@Brodie when did HRNZ ever pay its way?  Remember we went through the era of Pokie rort payments.  Then clipping the Sports income ticket.  The industry still relies on imported racing to keep funding.

The irony is for the moment it is paying its way because ENTAIN are willing to cover those previous subsidies and more.

You benefited more than most from the previous decades of largesse.

[the galah]

are you saying hrnz is doing a good job chief?

what about the field size for 2 year olds racing despite them pumping all that money into bonuses,the declining breeding numbers,the declining licence holder numbers,the declining average field size,the increased number of hot favorites you get in harness racing,the declining tote pools that result in discouraging punter participation,etc,etc. I 

all of the above ,hrnz said they were going to fix ,yet they get an f for fail on them all.

then throw in the blatantly obvious illogical efforts involving throwing money at trying to revitalise auckland strategy, based on the flawed narrative that auckland has a large popualtion and economy.

and you seem to have come up with the reasoning that because hrnz spent more than they earned in the past,that its now ok for hrnz to do so.

you know some of us find that a rather unrealistic approach to the industries sustainablity.

Edited 8 hours ago by the galah

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, the galah said:

are you saying hrnz is doing a good job chief?

what about the field size for 2 year olds racing despite them pumping all that money into bonuses,the declining breeding numbers,the declining licence holder numbers,the declining average field size,the increased number of hot favorites you get in harness racing,the declining tote pools that result in discouraging punter participation,etc,etc. I 

all of the above ,hrnz said they were going to fix ,yet they get an f for fail on them all.

then throw in the blatantly obvious illogical efforts involving throwing money at trying to revitalise auckland strategy, based on the flawed narrative that auckland has a large popualtion and economy.

and you seem to have come up with the reasoning that because hrnz spent more than they earned in the past,that its now ok for hrnz to do so.

you know some of us find that a rather unrealistic approach to the industries sustainablity.

So the Harness racing Landscape/Breeding is declining in All areas (numbers ) as you say.

But why Blame HRNZ ?? is what Chiefs is saying old mate.  The Sport is in DEMISE as you say . with age I think mainly like all of us. The youngsters around aren't interested.

Not their (HRNZ) fault. They're working Hard, hand in hand with Entain , to bring as Much Money and as Many races , and incentives to those that are still going,  as they can . Professionals doing there job.  A problem is they're doing such a GREAT job that the Aussies are turning up the last 3 years and Mugging All the riches. that doesn't help much 🙄.

Never- the- less. NZ did win the New Velocity showday still , so there's some hope yet !!! 👍🎉

It's because of the state of the Economy , and the state of the General public Outlook on racing . All sorts of things like that . The New Zealand Participants are VERY OLD . including us fans of the Sport like you, me and Chief and Brodster and that . Why are you surprised it's dropping away ??? Not HRNZ fault. 

you guys just using them as a Scapegoat All the Time .

Unhinged Nigel had horses and owners racing (and winning)  in both Islands  . It's ONLY Folk like him , and Shannon and Stockman and Garrard,  that are keeping you afloat Mr Titantic. 

(BTW, you HAVE to support 2 year old racing this late into the year (season) whether you like it or Not. )   Sires Stakes Final is in November. not that far away now. 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Gammalite

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Gammalite said:

.

But why Blame HRNZ ?? is what Chiefs is saying old mate.  The Sport is in DEMISE as you say . with age I think mainly like all of us. The youngsters around aren't interested.

Not their (HRNZ) fault. They're working Hard, hand in hand with Entain , to bring as Much Money and as Many races , and incentives to those that are still going,  as they can . Professionals doing there job.  A problem is they're doing such a GREAT job that the Aussies are turning up the last 3 years and Mugging All the riches. that doesn't help much 🙄.

 

 

are you saying HRNZ isn't responsible for the decision making that directs where the industry is heading.

sorry,but i don't get that.  Who is it you think is in charge.

And are you saying  HRNZ was somehow instrumental in getting entain to come along and privatise the nz tab.

thats not what i thought happened. I thought entain saw an opprtunity to make big money out of the sports betting in nz and the governmant and the tab was able to negotiate the racing industry being a big benefactor of that deal.

As i've quoted before,entains last annual report specifically referred to the sports betting as being the main reason they wanted the tab. Without the sports betting they wouldn't have ever have been interested in nz racing. 

I've pointed out above all the key indicators and your response is,well its not hrnz's fault.But  Hrnz are the ones who always say " they will manage future growth(their words).

Your saying hrnz has been so successful that all the aussies are coming over.

as i've pointed out before,many times,where is the evidence they wouldn't still come if the level of satkes for the bigger races were lower.I have used the examplwe of lhe greatest field to run in australia last year was ibn the hunter cup which was run for a stake that was only $250,000. Remember the big float trip leap to fame toook,driving across australia. His owner said at the time it was because of the sugnificance of the history of the hunter cup,not the stake.Besides, haven't aussie horses always raced in the big nz races. Why are you saying hrnz is doing something new,when its always happened.

2 hours ago, Gammalite said:

 

Never- the- less. NZ did win the New Velocity showday still , so there's some hope yet !!! 👍🎉

 

 

 

if slot races were such a great thing for the overtall good of the industry,then why is the australian harness one such an abject failure.

harnesslink had a story related to that on their website yesterday. A high profile australian breeder claiming mares being bred this year,in that state ,could be down as much as 25% . And that would make it a 50% decline since the introduction of the eureka,4 years ago.

so if slot races were that good,then how do you account for the australian ones failure.

the slot races in nz needed big injections of cash from hrnz to be run. So what does that tell you about them being a success story.

Why can't people see,that the people the industry is losing,and they will be lost forever,are looking at where hrnz is prioritising,saying to themselves,hrnz is all about the big players and auckland,thats not me,i've stuck around hoping they may change,but they obviously aren't going to,so i'm out of here.

2 hours ago, Gammalite said:

 

Unhinged Nigel had horses and owners racing (and winning)  in both Islands  . It's ONLY Folk like him , and Shannon and Stockman and Garrard,  that are keeping you afloat Mr Titantic. 

 

 

unhinged does race them in both islands,but his focus seems to be on the south island. .

thats up to him.

maybe some of the syndcates owners are based in the north island. He just seems to be chasing the bigger stakes mostly anyway with the handful has has had up there.

you know,you would have to ask this about that stable.

Theres robert dunn,all in on the need to have truckloads of money prop up auckland,because he says, theres a demand from auckland people.

Mr dunns been there several years now,yet the horses he races seem to all have canterbury connections.

like,how long does it take for this upsurge in auckland owner participation ,that he says will happen becauseof the large popualtion,flow through and create a noticable  ,observable trend in the numbers he lines up with auckland connections.

to the casual observer it seems a very slow burner.Someone needs to tell him,if he wants people to believe what he has said and  to take what he says seriously,then he needs to show hes a results man,not just piss in the wind talker.

Edited 3 hours ago by the galah

[Nowornever]

13 hours ago, Brodie said:

They restrict punters that win and lose by adopting amounts that are pathetically low.

That describes every gambling institution in the world that takes bets on racing not only NZ

[Chief Stipe]

Dare I say it harness racing in NZ needs at least two Te Akau's.

[the galah]

53 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Dare I say it harness racing in NZ needs at least two Te Akau's.

dare i say it,thats was never the area which made harness racing in new zealand strong

It is  however,the type of thinking which we currently see at hrnz,and look at the results they are getting. HRNZ are failing.and harness racing in nz is in accelerated decline..

it should be a given, that the strength of any sport,is in the numbers at a base level.  (participant numbers as well as followers of the sport numbers.)

look at what sports like rugby do. Give them a choice of more grass roots participantion or a small number more at the elite level and they will categorically tell you the grass roots is of greater importance.thats what they have said.

the strange thing is ,isn't the chair of the hrnz board also on the nz rugby board.

Why doesn't someone ask him,why is the hrnz board perceived by so many as prioritising the elite and the wealthy in nz harness racing,yet your on a rugby board which is perceived as recognising the opposite end of the spectrum as of more importance.

Personally i think the formula for what hrnz needed was staring everyone in the face,

The focus and priorities should always have been on the retention of the people the industry already had.

But they didn't .

instead more have left than should have.An area especially significant,has been the decline in the base of small time breeders.

Edited 16 minutes ago by the galah