Here come the Nutters! Becks Nairn. Thanks Winnie.

[curious]

20 minutes ago, hesi said:

How else did she think she was going to be viewed, when the title of the podcast, says "The Interview to End Horse Racing" and Garner starts the interview with "Becks Nairn says the time has come to ban horse racing for good"
 

He might have said that but she didn't. So if there's a nutter here, who is it?

[hesi]

Irrelevant, she might as well of.

 

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

He might have said that but she didn't. So if there's a nutter here, who is it?

Clearly her and anyone who gives her the time of day with her wacky theories.  

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, curious said:

Don't agree. One is bred for food consumption, the other for human entertainment.

I don't want any of them banned. Where did you get that idea? 

You are really misguided in the way you are trying to achieve that.  

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, hesi said:

Becks Nairn has questionable credibility and this has to be taken in context when viewing the many claims she makes about the racing industry.
If you read her FB page, it paints a picture of a woman who is resentful, who has derived a living for many years from horses and dogs.  A woman who has no scientific qualifications in veterinary science or pathology yet posts about the anatomical effects of racing on equine anatomy.  There are other claims, none of which are backed up by any science
She keeps on saying she is not trying to pull down racing, (Is this some attempt to mitigate her conscience) yet she has gone with a podcast with a known shock journo, trying to build his ratings, since losing his job at TV3.  
How else did she think she was going to be viewed, when the title of the podcast, says "The Interview to End Horse Racing" and Garner starts the interview with "Becks Nairn says the time has come to ban horse racing for good"
You can't have it both ways.
She appears to be continuing her crusade on her FB page
In saying all that yes, Racing has its welfare issues, but is this really the way to address them

Excellent post @hesi

Nor is posting out of context screenshots of alleged whip rule misdemeanours.  Those like @curious and @Thomass - seem to have gone soft in their old age.

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Absolutely. There is so much things that go on . Horse meat is more accepted in some countries than in others. for human consumption. Pet food has been around for ages. There are 2 horses abbotoirs in Aus , and the process is quite traumatic for most. Horses and People . as they have to accept that animals meet their demise here . Horses being a magnificent companion /working/ recreation animal to us all in these forums (at some stage) so are really effected by the goings on . Like the Galah has expressed and the lady expressing concerns that this thread was based on for horse welfare.  Curious even showing empathy/sympathy for race horses under race conditions many times , in the great Whip debate. 

I towed a galloper to that horse abbotoir near brisbane once. Meramist . Actually a slaughterhouse more than an abbotoir with the difference being protocols that involve procedure and stock whether being processed for human consumption or pet food.  I am plagued by the memory going there,  as a favour to the horses elderly owner. the horse with a irreparable knee injury , that was making horse uncomfortable , and no chance of any riding future. Was a traumatic experience, as a Semi arrived on site while I was there, with must of been 100 Brumbies onboard. Horses in holding pens with a legs swinging in the air bone snapped off and all sorts of trauma inflicted animals. I could never go to that place again ever , as some sights are better unseen. Once you've worked hard to keep horses in Tip Top condition for years it's Impossible on your brain to see them like that. as the Galah described with Bobby calves above some things have an effect..

Tasmania harness has a harsh reality that the stock of the Yole stables (horses too slow to race on the mainland) were being sent to Tassie to complete their racing days . very cheap training . very harsh conditions weather and stabling wise . Ben Yole (one time leading Aus trainer by number of race wins , ) from having 60 of the 90 runners competing at some meetings and stupid things like that. From must of been near 100 horses on the property . the logistics make it impossible to treat them the way most stables would. They all fed and rugged and that , and raced until they just couldn't earn another cent. so were chopped up for a Greyhound trainer mate down the road. This system seems very un-ethical ? , but bloodstock agents were still putting horses with him . as they have $10 per week shareholders to 'look after' . Aaron Bain Bloodstock and Summit Bloodstock still place horses with him to THIS day 😧. They even race 3 year old Midnight Miki (in 'penny' shares with others ) at Mark Purdon's famous NZ Stable  . Midnight Miki is One of the favs for the NZ Derby soon . So have a whole range of horses everywhere. that ultimately meet their demise at the Yoles or something similar. I see a lot of old QLD runners there and that , once they are not earning here. that these Bloodstock agents pick up for $10 owner shares ( they go a few seconds slower in Tas racing generally) 

is it ethical ? someone pays training Fees I spose, but with so many horses and owners , these bloodstock agents have ways of clearing unwanted stock .some will end up at the slaughterhouse . ( Gallopers trainers can clear the syndicated race-Mares in Broodmare sales for example.  as happened with Melody Belle and that.) so there are other ways of clearing stock out of training.  

footnote: Ben Yole and brother Tim currently disqualified 18months for horse cruelty in Tas. (some nasty things they were doing that are quite horrid) so horse's all race in their elderly fathers name Wayne, as trainer currently . so there are ways around things things. Tas Racing limited the stable starters number (from any stable)  to 4 runners per race to stop the 'Flood of Runners' strategy they used for a few years to load and win races,  but involved match fixing. 

i can understand why you have bad memories of taking that injured horse to an abbatoir for a friend.Some people can just switch off,but for others it leaves memories that they find hard to erase from their memory.

I think people who work in such places also have to have become desensitised to the whole process. We had such an abbatoir in the area we once lived and i spoke to a young lady who had worked there,she told me she only lasted a month as it effected her too much to continue.Months later she said she still thought about it occasionally,and she was not a person who had ever had a horse. i had a neighbour who actually was the man who worked for them and came out to peoples properties and put them down on the property,before transporting the carcass to the abbatoir for processing. He was a really empathetic person which made the whole traumatic process easier. I'm sure having them put down on your own property is the best way to do it and that is what i recommend if anyone has to do it.

In that province is also the blood processing farm ,where they take horses,male and female,take their blood regularly and send it off for processing overseas. There was big money in it for the company who did that. They looked after the horses well,but i was told by people who worked there, the horses tended to last for about 2- 3 years before they were no longer useful in that respect,due to the veins.

the lady we have been talking about,says she was associated with stables and stirrups until last year,a rehoming place for harness horses. I see it was only about a week ago hrnz had on their website that stables and stirrups was no longer doing rehoming.people who do the rehoming thing really do a wonderful job. the likes of jackie law out woodend way,has helped find homes for so many.

but the reality is,hrnz promote the rehoming places,but the rehoming places have no interest in horses over 12. Just last year we went looking for grazing.. After many months searching,we simply found no where new to graze them. I'm talking about thousands of attempts,pamphlets,walking the country roads knocking on doors,advertising,contacting about 5 rehoming places,only one of which even bothered to reply.Contacting the riding for the disabled,who also att least returned my calls. Fortunately in the end we managed to talk our way into getting more grazing at the place we already had some,but still we had to put down 2 very kind,inteligent,sensitive horses.

the reality is,even if racing organisations said,hey,we will pay for rehoming all the ex racehorses,there would be no where to put the vast majority.

i've made suggestiojhns on this forum,how i think they could take steps to address the problems,but i honestly think even idf there was a will,there is on;ly a way to mitigate the issue,it will never be solved. BUt they must at least try.

i look at gavel horse,both the thoroughbred and the harness and i look at the value broodmares are currently being sold for. its really sad and so many seem to go unwanted. This is mostly people,trying to sell their horses at giveaway prices,to give them a new home instead of getting the pet food man out,but still no one wants them.People go through a lot of stress looking for homes. And even if you find homes,its still very expensive.Thats why some people like chief say,why bother,just send them to the pet food man as the outcome will be the same in the end.And hes right in a way.

this is a topic where which is far more complex that the lady in the interview discusses.

but at least shes trying,which is why i think she deserves support.

Edited 10 hours ago by the galah

[Gammalite]

6 minutes ago, the galah said:

both the thoroughbred and the harness and i look at the value broodmares are currently being sold for. its really sad and so many seem to go unwanted. This is mostly people,trying to sell their horses at giveaway prices,to give them a new home instead of getting the pet food man out,but still no one wants them.People go through a lot of stress looking for homes. And even if you find homes,its still very expensive.Thats why some people like chief say,why bother,just send them to the pet food man as the outcome will be the same in the end.And hes right in a way.

this is a topic where which is far more complex that the lady in the interview discusses.

but at least shes trying,which is why i think she deserves support.

Yes . across the board you see Less and less horses being bred. and not even the broodmares that appear to have nice bloodlines , are not wanted anymore at times. A friend here has a very nice Broodmare who left the Redcliffe Oaks winner amongst others, but only breeds her now because of the $10,000 first race Win Bonus being offered , otherwise wouldn't even bother he said. and she h is quite good producing winners.

This is because Thoroughbred and Standardbred owners are having to be the Richer and richer ones in society , because the cost of keeping and training a race-horse, have just got too high , to enjoy the contest of racing one these days. The breeding is expensive too, and there's not enough Cheap Stallions to breed too anymore. And if you did , you are going to get mugged in the races by the Bettor's Delights or the Capt T's who are $20,000 + stallions. bought by Stonewall , or Shannon, or other millionaires.  I think thoroughbreds are a lot more expensive than that to breed and race  as well?  Cost of breaking in ? and potentially not even getting to race ? 

and so comes the Age long  'worry of moving on the slow/old /retired or uncompetitive'  ones. It is a HUGE worry. So there's no hiding that a few will find the Pet food man. 

As I mentioned earlier , A few QLD ones of millionaires Seymour and Grant Dixon , who are riding the crest of A Wave , with the Best Harness horse in the world earning Millions  ,BUT still have several geldings that get 'shipped off to Tas' , sold to those cheap bloodstock companies who make a buck from Penny shareholders. to race out of Yoles dirt cheap. and finish their careers there sight un-seen. real Head in the sand stuff knowing you sealed their fate . Except a few like the lady in question here , speak up and some Improvements are made to their living conditions while still racing. A concerned neighbour got the RSPCA to check Yoles horses constantly .Was All clear to race as fed, watered and rugged ok by the young staff , and they would even have a farrier (I hope)  . Notice even 'Smooth Deal ' made his way there somehow from NZ eventually. A group 1 winner in NZ for Mark Purdon . (4 wins from 8 x 2 year old starts around 2019)   . his career sees him end in the wilderness and about to be on the list earmarked for Greyhound tucker one of these days.

The Kaikoura harness bloke was probably embarrassed/sad that time,  with the 17 odd mal-nourished horses. Paddocks have to be many hectares at times if sustaining a herd . he must of miscalculated and they ran out of feed over a few weeks/months. All through Australia there are owners that run large groups of their stock in huge paddocks . One bloke I trained for ran 20,  on a whole mountain. Took us a long time to find them one time. They get ticks and things , and need a good wash lol. but seem to enjoy a bush 'natural ' run for a few weeks a year. was mainly the young and/or the old or the rehabilitating running wild though.  There's so many funny stories with them type of things. a little better outcome than a can of tucker for 'Fido' at times though. (unless injured or suffering in some way)   

[Chief Stipe]

51 minutes ago, the galah said:

the reality is,even if racing organisations said,hey,we will pay for rehoming all the ex racehorses,there would be no where to put the vast majority.

i've made suggestiojhns on this forum,how i think they could take steps to address the problems,but i honestly think even idf there was a will,there is on;ly a way to mitigate the issue,it will never be solved. BUt they must at least try.

Why is it a problem?  Rehoming every horse as you infer is not possible for practical and cost reasons.  Either accept that and move on or go down the emotive rabbit hole with the eventual conclusion that racing stops.  Don't buy in to the emotive BS.  

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

This is because Thoroughbred and Standardbred owners are having to be the Richer and richer ones in society , because the cost of keeping and training a race-horse, have just got too high , to enjoy the contest of racing one these days. The breeding is expensive too, and there's not enough Cheap Stallions to breed too anymore

Now the do gooding activists are saying you have to look after them for 30 years because racing them for gambling and entertainment purposes is immoral.  Meanwhile they over feed their pet dogs on canned dairy cows.

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

and so comes the Age long  'worry of moving on the slow/old /retired or uncompetitive'  ones. It is a HUGE worry. So there's no hiding that a few will find the Pet food man. 

So what is wrong with them going to the knackers yard?  At least they served a useful purpose rather than going to a an industry funded crematorium for a memorial service and turned to ashes!!!

[hesi]

What percentage of the industry are rural/semi-rural owner/breeders now.

People who have been in the game for generations, who have the ability to look after their horses once they have finished racing.  Who would never 'dispose' of a horse.

People like Peter and Heather Crofskey, who bred Leica Lucy, from one of their own mares, and to a low cost stallion in Derryn, whose start up fee was only$5K.

People who through no fault of their own would be caught up in Becks Nairn's crusade to ban racing

[curious]

20 minutes ago, hesi said:

 Becks Nairn's crusade to ban racing

Some of you just don't listen. She's not on a crusade to ban racing. She's on a crusade to stop that happening. Those with their heads in the sand are the ones exacerbating the likelihood of that. Same route the greyhound community took. 

[Chief Stipe]

18 minutes ago, curious said:

Some of you just don't listen. She's not on a crusade to ban racing. She's on a crusade to stop that happening. Those with their heads in the sand are the ones exacerbating the likelihood of that. Same route the greyhound community took. 

You are being naive @curious and I see @Freda supports you in that respect.

This woman like a lot of people you support are at best masquerading as supporters of racing when the reality is they are anti-racing.  I put @Thomass in that category.  If by a very very small chance this woman was a supporter of racing then she would go out of her way to present data and information that was accurate and/or in context.  She doesn't.  Which isn't surprising when she has no technical expertise or skill in the areas she chooses to weaponise.

Now there are two possible reasons for that - one she is ignorant, uninformed and lacks expertise or she isn't and is deliberately promoting misinformation in an alarmist fashion.  Either way both end up being anti-racing.

 

[curious]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

You are being naive @curious and I see @Freda supports you in that respect.

This woman like a lot of people you support are at best masquerading as supporters of racing when the reality is they are anti-racing.  I put @Thomass in that category.  If by a very very small chance this woman was a supporter of racing then she would go out of her way to present data and information that was accurate and/or in context.  She doesn't.  Which isn't surprising when she has no technical expertise or skill in the areas she chooses to weaponise.

Now there are two possible reasons for that - one she is ignorant, uninformed and lacks expertise or she isn't and is deliberately promoting misinformation in an alarmist fashion.  Either way both end up being anti-racing.

 

I think you are completely missing the point.

[the galah]

record keeping by racing authorities has supposedly been improved. i think thats true,but also think it could be classified as a bit of cosmetic changes as well.

so nz racing authorities have tried,and now they  give the  impression of better traceablity.

the harness horses they seem to classify as deregistered these days,dead or still registered..

what happens to the follow up record keeping after they have been notified as deregistered,i'm not sure.

looking at ours ,we still have horses shown as deregistered grazing in paddocks. the mares are still shown as being current.the ones that have died are shown as dead.i suppose thats because we have notified them each year . so record keeping is reliant on the owners replying properly to hrnz request for information..

Micro chipping was introduced fo harness foals bred about 4 years ago and i   think is also  applicable from this year to any thorougbred foals bred.

personally i'm not a fan of micro chipping.

big racing stables may have micro chip readers,but people who are the ones who care for the horses after finsihing racing are unlikely to. So it makes it harder for them.

is their a requirement that pet food places in the future notify racing authorities of the identication of the horses they process. Because if its only a optional,then that wouldn't create a proper picture.

the micro chipping itself was sold to people as being a method for easier traceability,but you only have to look to the USA ,where you saw horse animal welfare groups lobbied hard against it, as they quite rightly said it made it more difficult for people to identify harness horses at horse sales where the pet food operators active.Some well known harness breeders over there actually do both freeze branding and micro chipping ,just so their ex racehorses could be identified more easily after finishing their racing.

the whole topic is very complex.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by the galah

[MaltedMilkshake]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

So what is wrong with them going to the knackers yard?  At least they served a useful purpose rather than going to a an industry funded crematorium for a memorial service and turned to ashes!!!

I think you're a sick prick, you need help.

[hesi]

3 hours ago, curious said:

Some of you just don't listen. She's not on a crusade to ban racing. She's on a crusade to stop that happening. Those with their heads in the sand are the ones exacerbating the likelihood of that. Same route the greyhound community took. 

0.17 on the vid, quoting Garner's narrative.  "Becks Nairn says the time has come to ban horse racing for good"

[Chief Stipe]

55 minutes ago, the galah said:

record keeping by racing authorities has supposedly been improved. i think thats true,but also think it could be classified as a bit of cosmetic changes as well.

so nz racing authorities have tried,and now they  give the  impression of better traceablity.

the harness horses they seem to classify as deregistered these days,dead or still registered..

what happens to the follow up record keeping after they have been notified as deregistered,i'm not sure.

looking at ours ,we still have horses shown as deregistered grazing in paddocks. the mares are still shown as being current.the ones that have died are shown as dead.i suppose thats because we have notified them each year . so record keeping is reliant on the owners replying properly to hrnz request for information..

Micro chipping was introduced fo harness foals bred about 4 years ago and i   think is also  applicable from this year to any thorougbred foals bred.

personally i'm not a fan of micro chipping.

big racing stables may have micro chip readers,but people who are the ones who care for the horses after finsihing racing are unlikely to. So it makes it harder for them.

is their a requirement that pet food places in the future notify racing authorities of the identication of the horses they process. Because if its only a optional,then that wouldn't create a proper picture.

the micro chipping itself was sold to people as being a method for easier traceability,but you only have to look to the USA ,where you saw horse animal welfare groups lobbied hard against it, as they quite rightly said it made it more difficult for people to identify harness horses at horse sales where the pet food operators active.Some well known harness breeders over there actually do both freeze branding and micro chipping ,just so their ex racehorses could be identified more easily after finishing their racing.

the whole topic is very complex.

 

I'd query why you are creating an expectation for 100% traceability.  What does it actually achieve?  If a horse has retired from racing and is not a breeding proposition surely that is all NZTR or HRNZ need to know.  

Also I might unlike dogs which can have a litter of 6 or more puppies a year a horse generally only has one foal a year.

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, hesi said:

0.17 on the vid, quoting Garner's narrative.  "Becks Nairn says the time has come to ban horse racing for good"

Nice listening @hesi

[hesi]

8 minutes ago, hesi said:

0.17 on the vid, quoting Garner's narrative.  "Becks Nairn says the time has come to ban horse racing for good"

If she did not say that, then why has she allowed it to go live or not corrected it during the interview.

Very convenient for her.  When/if challenged all she has to do is defer to it, "I never said that, Garner quoted me incorrectly"

[the galah]

2 hours ago, hesi said:

0.17 on the vid, quoting Garner's narrative.  "Becks Nairn says the time has come to ban horse racing for good"

 

2 hours ago, hesi said:

If she did not say that, then why has she allowed it to go live or not corrected it during the interview.

Very convenient for her.  When/if challenged all she has to do is defer to it, "I never said that, Garner quoted me incorrectly"

i think your second post,clarifies your first. 

in other words, your latest post acknowledges duncan garner is the one that said she is saying that,whereas the lady never actually said that in the interview.

Edited 3 hours ago by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

15 minutes ago, the galah said:

in other words, your latest post acknowledges duncan garner is the one that said she is saying that,whereas the lady never actually said that in the interview.

So she is such a keen supporter of racing that she didn't correct him?

[curious]

3 hours ago, hesi said:

0.17 on the vid, quoting Garner's narrative.  "Becks Nairn says the time has come to ban horse racing for good"

So, now post where Becks actually said that, if it's her you are going after, not Garner's interpretation in his intro which she probably didn't even hear. 

[hesi]

As the Chief said, she has had plenty of opportunity to correct it

[hesi]

The woman is a nutter, devoid of science.  She talks about chlorine being a toxin in tap water and the need to install an inline filter to remove it.

The people of Havelock North might tend to disagree