Race field sizes? Cambridge?

[Brodie]

Still overseas but note that Cambridge have got a good meeting coming up Thursday night with 7 races and 45 starters at the moment!

I am questioning the rationale coming from the CEO of HRNZ that states that everything is positive with harness racing?

What happens when the cash from Entain dries up for the North Island?

It must be all good nothing to worry about, Entain will be more than happy to continue to put in each and every year to keep the stakes up and bonuses going!

Flawed business decisions are very puzzling.

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Brodie said:

What happens when the cash from Entain dries up for the North Island?

It must be all good nothing to worry about, Entain will be more than happy to continue to put in each and every year to keep the stakes up and bonuses going!

Flawed business decisions are very puzzling.

my guess is they cut stakes signifciantly across the board in nz ,especially at the top end and high profile, current administrators we currently have,move on to bigger and better jobs overseas about 12-18 months before that happens. That will be the first signal of whats to come..Personally i think they will be able to drag out the continued over spending for more than the remaining 2 1/2 years of the entain thing,maybe 4. Then we all say,well we told you so.  

Edited yesterday at 08:55 AM by the galah

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

my guess is they cut stakes signifciantly across the board in nz ,especially at the top end and high profile, current administrators we currently have,move on to bigger and better jobs overseas about 12-18 months before that happens. That will be the first signal of whats to come..Personally i think they will be able to drag out the continued over spending for more than the remaining 2 1/2 years of the entain thing,maybe 4. Then we all say,well we told you so.  

I  still waiting to hear what the big committee has come up with or was that just a load of hot air?

There is no way pm earth they can keep spending big for another 4 years losing money.

There has to be someone that pulls the plug before the time Entains 5 years is up.

They need to act now or harness will never recover but then again everything is said to be positive apparently?

[Shab]

There’s the geoblocking that’s pulling in 650 million in lost turnover every year now. That pays for lots of stakes.

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, Shab said:

There’s the geoblocking that’s pulling in 650 million in lost turnover every year now. That pays for lots of stakes.

Thats great then we can breath a sigh of relief.

Onwards and upwards!

 

[Gammalite]

They take a few thousand per year to pay very mild stakemoney, to Good, Hard working New Zealanders.

Begrudging anyone a GO in their Sport and/or means of livelihood is pretty poor form imo. and should be Everyones opinion who loves the sport. 

they Should be encouraging and mentoring and rewarding. to keep the sport alive . 

Once it's gone (like Hutt and Forbury and Gold Coast ) it's gone.  Gone. makes no difference to you Severe critics in the South Island , who seem to wish it to happen with all the hate of North Island trotting'.  a shame it came to that.

Good on the trainers going around today , and their young drivers. the future of the sport. 

Grizzling over dollars ? gotta spend it on something. Buy a Standardbred yearling boys and SUPPORT the Sport .

Victoria operates at operating debt each year. -24 mill last year. approaching around 80 mill total I believe. But HRV still supports the participants across the state with races , nearly every day. thousands of peoples work depends on it. adjustments are made each year 

You blokes are the opposite? . just worried because of the odd 6 horse field . lol. 😂  what a Stupid thing to worry about really , in these days and times when a RESULT is very helpful to cover costs. 

I TELL you again . The small fields are good for owners, trainers, drivers and Punters as you can GET RESULTS consistently . enough to pay the way of the Horses in training (which is expensive these days)

and the winners pays the same as it would in a 10 horse field generally for punters,  as the Pool is more concentrated on less horses, which elevates the price of the winner to a better level. I'm not gunna try and explain the mathematics of that as is probably not in the Capability of most ( That don't recognize the laws of averages and numbers as the reason for success rates )   six horse fields should be the Norm to compete with the law of averages. 

the only persons that todays racing at Waikato doesn't suit,  is the North Island haters you see on NZ harness forums. seems an Embarrassment to your nation and to the once great Sport of Harness racing. 

[Brodie]

32 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

They take a few thousand per year to pay very mild stakemoney, to Good, Hard working New Zealanders.

Begrudging anyone a GO in their Sport and/or means of livelihood is pretty poor form imo. and should be Everyones opinion who loves the sport. 

they Should be encouraging and mentoring and rewarding. to keep the sport alive . 

Once it's gone (like Hutt and Forbury and Gold Coast ) it's gone.  Gone. makes no difference to you Severe critics in the South Island , who seem to wish it to happen with all the hate of North Island trotting'.  a shame it came to that.

Good on the trainers going around today , and their young drivers. the future of the sport. 

Grizzling over dollars ? gotta spend it on something. Buy a Standardbred yearling boys and SUPPORT the Sport .

Victoria operates at operating debt each year. -24 mill last year. approaching around 80 mill total I believe. But HRV still supports the participants across the state with races , nearly every day. thousands of peoples work depends on it. adjustments are made each year 

You blokes are the opposite? . just worried because of the odd 6 horse field . lol. 😂  what a Stupid thing to worry about really , in these days and times when a RESULT is very helpful to cover costs. 

I TELL you again . The small fields are good for owners, trainers, drivers and Punters as you can GET RESULTS consistently . enough to pay the way of the Horses in training (which is expensive these days)

and the winners pays the same as it would in a 10 horse field generally for punters,  as the Pool is more concentrated on less horses, which elevates the price of the winner to a better level. I'm not gunna try and explain the mathematics of that as is probably not in the Capability of most ( That don't recognize the laws of averages and numbers as the reason for success rates )   six horse fields should be the Norm to compete with the law of averages. 

the only persons that todays racing at Waikato doesn't suit,  is the North Island haters you see on NZ harness forums. seems an Embarrassment to your nation and to the once great Sport of Harness racing. 

Thanks Gamma for your thoughts always appreciated and you are indeed an enthusiast.

CEO Brad Steele has said that everything is positive with harness racing.

He should know as he has all the relative figures so We need to just get on with it, knowing that we are being told the truth.

Not sure why they called the Committee then and where it has got to?

Mustve thought it was not required after all?
What a relief 😅😂

[Newmarket]

8 hours ago, Shab said:

There’s the geoblocking that’s pulling in 650 million in lost turnover every year now. That pays for lots of stakes.

They are getting very worried about this figure…

[Gammalite]

5 hours ago, Brodie said:

He should know as he has all the relative figures so We need to just get on with it, knowing that we are being told the truth.

Not sure why they called the Committee then and where it has got to?

Mustve thought it was not required after all?

Well they have had meetings and introduced things. There's more feature racing and great things happening in NZ harness to list here. Including Dean Shannon getting /pushing ENTAIN involvement in Nz harness racing ,

 

leading to the Great prize-money and races that are in effect currently. Resulting in Enormous Australian Participation  in the racing, the likes I've never seen in my lifetime , the past 3 years . 

The ENTAIN  NZ Tab contract is 25 years. They won't stop dead at 5 years Brodster. They will continue to subsidise harness , as their sub-branch of LADBROKES does here in Queensland. adjustments made as they see fit. 

The difference being in QLD , we have many week to week horses racing . It is quite boring as NZ recognizes ( just the same as Cambridge no doubt) but peoples livelihoods depend on it , and the owners here get a 'Return ' because of our regular Nine horse fields. They should win 2 races every 18 starts in 6 months as the goal of achievement . This keeps them in the Sport. This is what Cambridge and Manawatu does. It's good . excellent even. 

If you're MISSING a 3rd PLACE divvie' because the field is less than 8 in size ? Is THAT the be-all and end-all of NZ harness racing for Punters there ??   Can't BE ?? I can't believe it. seems such a strange thing to worry about.

I put most of my bets on the Football. Like most Punters now a Sports Bet is much more better value than an obscure trotter in a far flung place to risk your dollars on. In football There's Only TWO starters and Returns are often and calculated. But 6 horse fields are good too at the trots. The best horse /driver can usually win without bad luck.  

15 hours ago, Brodie said:

Still overseas but note that Cambridge have got a good meeting coming up Thursday night with 7 races and 45 starters at the moment!

My replies are based on the small sarcasm I feel i'm reading here mate.  that inspired you to another thread of the same stuff . Just trying to offer you excuses/ and reasons it is Indeed GOOD to have these meetings (STILL) 

[the galah]

10 hours ago, Gammalite said:

They take a few thousand per year to pay very mild stakemoney, to Good, Hard working New Zealanders.

Begrudging anyone a GO in their Sport and/or means of livelihood is pretty poor form imo. and should be Everyones opinion who loves the sport. 

they Should be encouraging and mentoring and rewarding. to keep the sport alive . 

Once it's gone (like Hutt and Forbury and Gold Coast ) it's gone.  Gone. makes no difference to you Severe critics in the South Island , who seem to wish it to happen with all the hate of North Island trotting'.  a shame it came to that.

Good on the trainers going around today , and their young drivers. the future of the sport. 

Grizzling over dollars ? gotta spend it on something. Buy a Standardbred yearling boys and SUPPORT the Sport .

Victoria operates at operating debt each year. -24 mill last year. approaching around 80 mill total I believe. But HRV still supports the participants across the state with races , nearly every day. thousands of peoples work depends on it. adjustments are made each year 

You blokes are the opposite? . just worried because of the odd 6 horse field . lol. 😂  what a Stupid thing to worry about really , in these days and times when a RESULT is very helpful to cover costs. 

I TELL you again . The small fields are good for owners, trainers, drivers and Punters as you can GET RESULTS consistently . enough to pay the way of the Horses in training (which is expensive these days)

and the winners pays the same as it would in a 10 horse field generally for punters,  as the Pool is more concentrated on less horses, which elevates the price of the winner to a better level. I'm not gunna try and explain the mathematics of that as is probably not in the Capability of most ( That don't recognize the laws of averages and numbers as the reason for success rates )   six horse fields should be the Norm to compete with the law of averages. 

the only persons that todays racing at Waikato doesn't suit,  is the North Island haters you see on NZ harness forums. seems an Embarrassment to your nation and to the once great Sport of Harness racing. 

isn't the point,when they run out of money to prop up areas that are struggling to limit the losses their meetings incur,then they will be the areas targeted most significantly and impacted by the inevitable future cuts

so,most of us are arguing hrnz shouild be being fiscally responsible now. 

In other words,it is the policies you advocate for when it comes to the likes of auckland and cambridge,which will  lead to the inevitable  shrinking of the harness racing footprint in the areas like auckland and southland. 

it is the very policies you want that will unltimately be self inflicvted wounds for auckland.

And ,most of us can see, the people the industry is losing the most, are the enthusiasts who aren't so much focused on having big stakes for 2 year olds and open class races.The very ones that would have still particpated beyond crunch times had they been valued more in current times.

Every future year hrnz continue to overspend as they currently are,is a wound to the future of the level of participation in the sport in 5-10 years time.

anyone who wants the sport to be relevant in the future should be wantinghrnz to be fiscally responsible and have sustainable policies.

there are still positives,harness racing will get their share of funds from the entain geo blocking thing,the sports betting increase thiing ,the greyhound share of turnover thing.

what most of us want to see is a vision that we can believe in that will give enough confidence for people currently particpating in the sport to continue. Thas not currently happening.

Edited 13 hours ago by the galah

[Gammalite]

5 hours ago, the galah said:

sn't the point,when they run out of money to prop up areas that are struggling to limit the losses their meetings incur,then they will be the areas targeted most significantly and impacted by the inevitable future cuts

so,most of us are arguing hrnz shouild be being fiscally responsible now. 

It is the Point. The racing at Cambridge is Important . Many many north Island tracks have been closed in past years and there's barely any left 😧.  This has BEEN HAppening for Years . It's not a recent developement at All.

Ruakaka, New Plymouth , Hutt Park , scenes of some great action for many. Now Out the Gate. 

and some say Cambridge is a Burden on the system ? it's in the Waikato , great horse country ?. SURELY surely you should see the need to run it ? , whether it's 45 horses or even less ?   Once you stop running =It's over. 

I HATE the idea of selling Franklin as the ATC already in crippling debt will be out of business if DON"T HAVE ASSETS (and somewhere for the good Pukekohe folk to train as well) or reduced assets is just asking for trouble. 

Victoria still trades and run's races the same as NZ (same population) even while 80 mill odd in debt , because it has the ASSET of MELTON Park track. most of the country tracks still function because people CARE , and still race them when 45 or 86 horses turn up on the day. It's a Sport. Let them race.  If you're worried about half sized fields then Cut the prizemoney in half then. it probably will come to that at some stage. Stopping them altogether is silly though. I remember being Matamata on-course only meeting once racing for $1000. Lightning Blue won his Very first start that night. Shipped off to Aus then. And came back to Addington 2 years later to win the Interdominion and NZ CUp double.  was easier for the horse at Cambridge 🤣😉👍 

Auckland has many Millionaire owners who pour thousands into the game in yearling purchases , training and driving to WORLD class levels by the participants , and Metro Class fast horses . Of COURSE they should race for the BIGGER dollars. more the merrier. Don't let the gallopers owners/trainers have it all 😅🏇. ENTAIN have PLENTY💰 

The HRNZ is doing the best they can for those still going. I get the point that it's not a great betting product , but as you pointed out with your thoughts on Menangle driving, and QLD race driving, it's not a great betting product in Aus either. I don't even watch most of the races. Just if someone I know is in it. In FACT No-one in Brisbane barely knew the Interdominion was on .No ads. no nothing.  I could of asked a thousand people, anywhere in Brisbane,  who won the Queensland Derby at Albion Park and would be likely to get ZERO correct answers. the game is gone. 

[the galah]

53 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

It is the Point. The racing at Cambridge is Important . Many many north Island tracks have been closed in past years and there's barely any left 😧.  This has BEEN HAppening for Years . It's not a recent developement at All.

Ruakaka, New Plymouth , Hutt Park , scenes of some great action for many. Now Out the Gate. 

and some say Cambridge is a Burden on the system ? it's in the Waikato , great horse country ?. SURELY surely you should see the need to run it ? , whether it's 45 horses or even less ?   Once you stop running =It's over. 

I HATE the idea of selling Franklin as the ATC already in crippling debt will be out of business if DON"T HAVE ASSETS (and somewhere for the good Pukekohe folk to train as well) or reduced assets is just asking for trouble. 

Victoria still trades and run's races the same as NZ (same population) even while 80 mill odd in debt , because it has the ASSET of MELTON Park track. most of the country tracks still function because people CARE , and still race them when 45 or 86 horses turn up on the day. It's a Sport. Let them race.  If you're worried about half sized fields then Cut the prizemoney in half then. it probably will come to that at some stage. Stopping them altogether is silly though. I remember being Matamata on-course only meeting once racing for $1000. Lightning Blue won his Very first start that night. Shipped off to Aus then. And came back to Addington 2 years later to win the Interdominion and NZ CUp double.  was easier for the horse at Cambridge 🤣😉👍 

Auckland has many Millionaire owners who pour thousands into the game in yearling purchases , training and driving to WORLD class levels by the participants , and Metro Class fast horses . Of COURSE they should race for the BIGGER dollars. more the merrier. Don't let the gallopers owners/trainers have it all 😅🏇. ENTAIN have PLENTY💰 

The HRNZ is doing the best they can for those still going. I get the point that it's not a great betting product , but as you pointed out with your thoughts on Menangle driving, and QLD race driving, it's not a great betting product in Aus either. I don't even watch most of the races. Just if someone I know is in it. In FACT No-one in Brisbane barely knew the Interdominion was on .No ads. no nothing.  I could of asked a thousand people, anywhere in Brisbane,  who won the Queensland Derby at Albion Park and would be likely to get ZERO correct answers. the game is gone. 

Im advocating for current  leadership that implement policies that are able to fund racing at cambridge at a level that sees particpation numbers maintained in the future.

i'm pro racing at cambridge,just not in the form it currently is.

the reason punters moan about cambridge is because its not a good look fo the sport.

the race i just watched  for an interest,you had the out the gate blokes bet on yet another horse that sat at the back and made no attempt to get into a winning position. That was claude.Probably wouldn't have won had it made a move earlier anyway,but it would have been nice to have thought it may have been wanting to win,but thats not the impression you got, watching the race. Then the horse following it,the major win mover,rough and ready,well its driver showed no interest whatsoever in trying to even place.Really strange drive. I'm not sure whether that was deliberate or just an indication of her lack of tactical thinking.But thats what cambridge dishes up each week.No one ever moves up mid race. boring.

Edited 6 hours ago by the galah

[TAB For Ever]

3 hours ago, the galah said:

Im advocating for current  leadership that implement policies that are able to fund racing at cambridge at a level that sees particpation numbers maintained in the future.

i'm pro racing at cambridge,just not in the form it currently is.

the reason punters moan about cambridge is because its not a good look fo the sport.

the race i just watched  for an interest,you had the out the gate blokes bet on yet another horse that sat at the back and made no attempt to get into a winning position. That was claude.Probably wouldn't have won had it made a move earlier anyway,but it would have been nice to have thought it may have been wanting to win,but thats not the impression you got, watching the race. Then the horse following it,the major win mover,rough and ready,well its driver showed no interest whatsoever in trying to even place.Really strange drive. I'm not sure whether that was deliberate or just an indication of her lack of tactical thinking.But thats what cambridge dishes up each week.No one ever moves up mid race. boring.

Methinks you making this moan up.....just to feel good !

Claude probably a false win favourite and both these horses had outside draws so bound to go back in small field...

To win from there they needed a real fast pace. The race started fast , then everyone took a break....an early move not on as corners come up fast and you lose a lot ground out wide on the bends.

Check the final bend and both were wide on the track and in a 28 last quarter they ran on very well and closed well at end.

Very good runs from both and no boring than the usual horse race . 

Rough and Ready has won some 20 races so probably not getting any better ,especially from an outside gate !