Reefton Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 How does Australian racing reconcile James McDonald getting two years for backing a horse he was riding himself with the requested four years for Darren Weir? Weir should be getting an absolute minimum ten years if not life 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Yes, James Mac penalty was harsh, but I feel Weirs offence is not as bad as the media are making out. The usual story in this day and age where everything is over hyped. At the end of the day, he was not drugging horse's, he was not using jiggers on the race track during races or trials. The jiggers were locked in a safe which to me indicate they were probably only used on problem horses, and were not habitually used on all. I do not swallow the line that these devises are or amount to cruelty to horses. Yes he has broken the rules, and must pay the penalty, but 10yrs to life I think would be a complete over reaction. The bigger you are, the bigger the fall springs to mind Reefton. Weir is going from the top to the bottom here, even without a penalty. I think 3 years would be about right. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, aquaman said: Yes, James Mac penalty was harsh, but I feel Weirs offence is not as bad as the media are making out. The usual story in this day and age where everything is over hyped. At the end of the day, he was not drugging horse's, he was not using jiggers on the race track during races or trials. The jiggers were locked in a safe which to me indicate they were probably only used on problem horses, and were not habitually used on all. I do not swallow the line that these devises are or amount to cruelty to horses. Yes he has broken the rules, and must pay the penalty, but 10yrs to life I think would be a complete over reaction. The bigger you are, the bigger the fall springs to mind Reefton. Weir is going from the top to the bottom here, even without a penalty. I think 3 years would be about right. Seriously? Who has brought racing into vastly more disrepute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Social media over here is in overdrive already this morning and it's early..........remember, this is ongoing, he will get more than 4, there is a police investigation also, if anything comes of that, fresh charges maybe, then they will go for more....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 You're spot on on this one Reefer The GRUB should have got life when he was caught tubing early in his career..then the Industry wouldn't be dealing with this appalling publicity now The Grub Jockey David Walker should have got the same life sentence Any serious racing offence proves you can't work to the RULES OK... Go and find another career fleecing Pensioners of their life savings perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I agree with you Tommy, BUT, David Walker is different to Weir, animal welfare with Weir, re the jiggers, David should be given a second chance, we all should get a second chance in life, we are humans after all, but not when animal welfare has been breached.....Weir is a recidivist his record appalling and yet the Press still refer to the man as a Champion Trainer........fools and sycophants that they are.....IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaltedMilkshake Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, aquaman said: Yes, James Mac penalty was harsh, but I feel Weirs offence is not as bad as the media are making out. The usual story in this day and age where everything is over hyped. At the end of the day, he was not drugging horse's, he was not using jiggers on the race track during races or trials. The jiggers were locked in a safe which to me indicate they were probably only used on problem horses, and were not habitually used on all. I do not swallow the line that these devises are or amount to cruelty to horses. Yes he has broken the rules, and must pay the penalty, but 10yrs to life I think would be a complete over reaction. The bigger you are, the bigger the fall springs to mind Reefton. Weir is going from the top to the bottom here, even without a penalty. I think 3 years would be about right. I really don’t like saying it but in a very nice way, you are living in fantasyland, Aquaman. Unlike the NZ Milky Bar Kids, the AUstralian Federal Police are involved...and in fact are driving this poor sorry affair. The AFP wouldn’t get involved if it was purely a domestic racing issue....they deal in cross border events....read between the lines...their investigation has been ongoing for sometime.... The Victorian Police are also involved but it’s the AFP driving the police side of the investigation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 35 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said: I really don’t like saying it but in a very nice way, you are living in fantasyland, Aquaman. Unlike the NZ Milky Bar Kids, the AUstralian Federal Police are involved...and in fact are driving this poor sorry affair. The AFP wouldn’t get involved if it was purely a domestic racing issue....they deal in cross border events....read between the lines...their investigation has been ongoing for sometime.... The Victorian Police are also involved but it’s the AFP driving the police side of the investigation. If its just cattle prods which were locked in a safe, and Weir refusing to answer questions, and a small quantity of coke found on the premise, which could be attributed to anyone, then I do not see that this is any big deal, other than the fact it is the leading trainer in Australia. Most of it is media hype. If it was Joe Blogs from the outback, it would not rate a mention. Unless there is more to follow from the Feds that nobody at this stage knows about, then I am prepared to say, fairly minor stuff. If he was drugging horses, or rigging races, or treating horses inhumanely, then I would have a different view. Just my take on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Unless there is more to follow from the Feds that nobody at this stage knows about ... Ay, there's the rub! YOU CAN BET YOUR SWEET LIFE THAT THEY WILL BE LOOKING LOOKING LOOKING and not SAYING SAYING SAYING I doubt very much that this investigation is limited to jiggers/prods or even horse 'welfare'...why did the racing authorities ask for assistance from the Feds in an investigation they say began months ago....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Of course it’s not just.......4 years gives the feds time to do due process. Then should there be grounds for crim charges they will go at it big time, the 4 years quashed and a new penalty instituted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Who else is involved will come out in the wash, JM is either completely stupid or an innocent man, let’s find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 5 hours ago, aquaman said: Yes, James Mac penalty was harsh, but I feel Weirs offence is not as bad as the media are making out. The usual story in this day and age where everything is over hyped. At the end of the day, he was not drugging horse's, he was not using jiggers on the race track during races or trials. The jiggers were locked in a safe which to me indicate they were probably only used on problem horses, and were not habitually used on all. I do not swallow the line that these devises are or amount to cruelty to horses. Yes he has broken the rules, and must pay the penalty, but 10yrs to life I think would be a complete over reaction. The bigger you are, the bigger the fall springs to mind Reefton. Weir is going from the top to the bottom here, even without a penalty. I think 3 years would be about right. Mate really , not cruelty , only if the horse requested it be used , try hanging onto a hot wire next time your on a farm then you'll get some idea what it does to a horse , might change your mind . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 6 hours ago, Reefton said: Seriously? Who has brought racing into vastly more disrepute? The racing authorities conducting a kangaroo court devoid of any standard judicial process. No consideration to owners, workers, etc. A giant publicity stunt with media on hand to witness a police raid then scratching his horses penalizing owners knowing that would disseminate the stable. All before any proper hearing. Lawyers, and must I say accountants have normally indemnity insurance meaning if they have seriously offended their business is protected. Already Weir's losses must be in the millions and by the sounds of his developments heavily bankrolled he could possibly be bankrupted. And still that won't be enough just because of three jiggers and peoples fantasy of them being used in cruel manner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaltedMilkshake Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 hours ago, aquaman said: If its just cattle prods which were locked in a safe, and Weir refusing to answer questions, and a small quantity of coke found on the premise, which could be attributed to anyone, then I do not see that this is any big deal, other than the fact it is the leading trainer in Australia. Most of it is media hype. If it was Joe Blogs from the outback, it would not rate a mention. Unless there is more to follow from the Feds that nobody at this stage knows about, then I am prepared to say, fairly minor stuff. If he was drugging horses, or rigging races, or treating horses inhumanely, then I would have a different view. Just my take on it. I have tried to explain the situation...the Australian Federal Police outrank and override every other entity...they have been building a case for sometime. Therefore their investigation is ongoing... It is NOT media hype at all...this, Aquaman, is SERIOUS. Yes, to a degree, if it was a little known trainer, it would not have been missed but this industry is one of Australia’s largest, therefore it needs to be protected. AFP are just letting RV get the initial stuff on the table.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said: I have tried to explain the situation...the Australian Federal Police outrank and override every other entity...they have been building a case for sometime. Therefore their investigation is ongoing... It is NOT media hype at all...this, Aquaman, is SERIOUS. Yes, to a degree, if it was a little known trainer, it would not have been missed but this industry is one of Australia’s largest, therefore it needs to be protected. AFP are just letting RV get the initial stuff on the table.... Do you mean the Fed investigation is like the Mueller investigation, all media hype, and no guts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, The Centaur said: ........because of three jiggers and peoples fantasy of them being used in cruel manner. Could you give me an example of when one might be used in a nice manner that the horse might enjoy? And if not could you give me a suggestion as to why they would have them at the stable. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 I some years ago seen a horse get a couple of reminders from what would be frowned upon today without going into to much detail, I inquired why this action was taken, to which the reply was,the bastard was gunna kick my head off, remember there is some nasty types around and if not taught a little discipline, can result in life threatening injuries of even death in some cases. We have seen the odd person lose there lives from horse injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Reefton said: Could you give me an example of when one might be used in a nice manner that the horse might enjoy? And if not could you give me a suggestion as to why they would have them at the stable. Darren Weir must have been involved with thousands of horses by now. I have not seen one instance on the internet of any occasion he has been cruel. He daughters, female staff by their nature would be aghast at any cruelty. I have no idea why they were in the stable just as I have no idea why his fathers old pea shooter was in the stable and at this stage neither do you. I have over the years seen so many injustices with a mob like mentality I feel I can smell one fairly well. This happens to be one. Particularly in regards Jarrod Maclean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Shad said: I some years ago seen a horse get a couple of reminders from what would be frowned upon today without going into to much detail, I inquired why this action was taken, to which the reply was,the bastard was gunna kick my head off, remember there is some nasty types around and if not taught a little discipline, can result in life threatening injuries of even death in some cases. We have seen the odd person lose there lives from horse injuries. Shad, as a former breaker/trainer let me explain the facts of life to you mate......you can't belt/bash kindness into a horse, they have to trust you from the word go...if you inherit one from another stable and it's vicious, and some are, win it over, it can be done you know. I used to look after one of the most vicious [and talented horses in Nth I] when I was just a kid....the boss taught me plenty [Deac] and I won him over.....I never forgot what I was taught then, and it helped me when I was breaking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaltedMilkshake Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 49 minutes ago, aquaman said: Do you mean the Fed investigation is like the Mueller investigation, all media hype, and no guts. Mate, you are seriously delusional....I’m not going into it but this sad and sorry affair is going to have ramifications for so many people and the industry as a whole. Australian Federal Police.....if it was just a “jigger” which in any shape or form is not acceptable......but as I said, the AFP are running this....and will move forward in due course. RV have done their thing....hearing is tomorrow for RAD at 2.00pm but have left the door open for additional charges which could arise out of the AFP investigation. But, believe you me, this is NO witch hunt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 36 minutes ago, Rowley Mile said: Shad, as a former breaker/trainer let me explain the facts of life to you mate......you can't belt/bash kindness into a horse, they have to trust you from the word go...if you inherit one from another stable and it's vicious, and some are, win it over, it can be done you know. I used to look after one of the most vicious [and talented horses in Nth I] when I was just a kid....the boss taught me plenty [Deac] and I won him over.....I never forgot what I was taught then, and it helped me when I was breaking. Bit of discipline never hurt me as a youngster, and that's just the way it was back then, I never used any term as you described as belt or bash, but I can tell you, every horse he broke in may not have been the fastest, but were very well disciplined, when they got to the races, sometimes pussyfooting around just makes the issue worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Ok, remind me never to send you a horse to break. Comparing your childhood to that of a yearling makes me wonder, different strokes for different folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 43 minutes ago, Rowley Mile said: Ok, remind me never to send you a horse to break. Comparing your childhood to that of a yearling makes me wonder, different strokes for different folks. Fair enough you would do your own, with all that experience, I was always told, if you gonna wreck a horse, you may as well do it to your own specifications. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooncoin Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 hours ago, MaltedMilkshake said: I have tried to explain the situation...the Australian Federal Police outrank and override every other entity...they have been building a case for sometime. Therefore their investigation is ongoing... It is NOT media hype at all...this, Aquaman, is SERIOUS. Yes, to a degree, if it was a little known trainer, it would not have been missed but this industry is one of Australia’s largest, therefore it needs to be protected. AFP are just letting RV get the initial stuff on the table.... As I said on Thursday ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 15 hours ago, MaltedMilkshake said: I have tried to explain the situation...the Australian Federal Police outrank and override every other entity...they have been building a case for sometime. Therefore their investigation is ongoing... It is NOT media hype at all...this, Aquaman, is SERIOUS. Yes, to a degree, if it was a little known trainer, it would not have been missed but this industry is one of Australia’s largest, therefore it needs to be protected. AFP are just letting RV get the initial stuff on the table.... This whole Weir saga is starting to look like our operation Inca. And we all know where that is heading, acquittal on all racing related matters. This involved and is an operation by the NZ Police, who outrank and override every other entity.... they have been building a case for sometime.. Therefore their investigation is ongoing. See the parallels here Milkshake. This whole saga with Weir will end up the same way, unless they come up with new damning new evidence. If all they end up with is some stable hands cocaine stash, Weirs fathers pop gun used for pests and rodents, and 4 jiggers found in a locked safe, then I am afraid it will be seen for what it is. A rabid media frothing at the mouth with fake news. This appears to be a witch hunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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