Levin Surplus to Requirements

[Huey]

1 hour ago, curious said:

You'll probably say it's a bit of an archaic business model, but what about going back to funding clubs based  on their wagering earnings?

Can't disagree with that , but even that's rigged with NZTR deciding who gets race days or specific race dates.

[Huey]

3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Levin doesn't have the facilities to run their own racedays and would require considerable capital investment to get up to scratch.  Arguably they struggle to maintain what they've got as it is.  

Meanwhile Otaki has to maintain all its facilities and rents to Levin for three days for peppercorns.  

That's not true , they probably could maintain or update , but what's the point given they'll never likely see another race day there again through no fault of their own.

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Huey said:

That's not how it works @Chief Stipe , NZTR take race dates off clubs, deliberately neglect clubs , attempt to neutralise or hope the volunteer base of the club falls over and then look to come to the industry rescue by stealing the asset.

Clubs falling over has less to do with NZTR than you assert.  They are falling over for the same reason other clubs are falling over be it the local rugby club or RSA.  Those drivers have nothing to do with NZTR.  Sure NZTR have stopped propping every Club up because they don't have the resources to support all of them.

2 hours ago, Huey said:

Under no circumstances should it ever be in the clubs or the industry's best interest to see the asset go to NZTR.

Why not?  I gather you approved of what the Westland Racing Club did when if a fit of churlish pique they gave their assets back to the local community.  Racing on the West Coast lost to parochialism and an inability for the four clubs to work together.  Oh the irony @Huey if you dig deeper into what the Westland Racing Club did you'll find that on the surface it may have looked a benevolent charitable donation to the community but underneath some benefited just the same way that some are benefitting from the Wellington Racing Club sell off.  But that's OK because in your mind the WRC stuck the finger to NZTR!

2 hours ago, Huey said:

Just because Levin don't have races at their track (likely not their fault) the contribution Levin make to the industry like a few other clubs is still huge and the story NZTR are trying to sell is that they don't contribute to the industry and are surplus to requirements is just downright deceit.

Yes Levin's contribution is significant but it isn't sustainable.  If Otaki want to subsidise them then that's their business.  Where have NZTR ever said that these Clubs DON'T contribute?  In terms of them being surplus isn't it more of a question of is the capital they have invested returning an income that makes them sustainable?  The accounts (that we have visibility of) say they aren't.  There is a bigger strategic picture that Clubs just don't want to address.  If Levin had racedays then very quickly they would end up in the same situation as Ellerslie (was), Te Rapa, Hastings, Trentham and so on.

[Chief Stipe]

19 minutes ago, Huey said:

Can't disagree with that , but even that's rigged with NZTR deciding who gets race days or specific race dates.

Oh dear the mafia theory again.  How should the allocation be determined?  Given there are a limited number of dates available which is decreasing in line with the decreasing horse population.  I've suggest in the past that the majority of the dates should be contestable.  But the fact is most of the Clubs couldn't afford the contest!

[Chief Stipe]

19 minutes ago, Huey said:

That's not true , they probably could maintain or update , but what's the point given they'll never likely see another race day there again through no fault of their own.

It is true.  Levin has already sold off what it could.  That realised cash is slowly diminishing as it funds opex.  There isn't enough in the bucket to do anything substantial.  I do note though that there are "consultants" clipping the ticket annually.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I have no opinion on whether it is archaic or not however even that model wouldn't generate enough revenue for Clubs to pay their way unless they had significant sources of other revenue.

It would if stakes were aligned to it as they were 20 years ago.

[Chief Stipe]

16 minutes ago, curious said:

It would if stakes were aligned to it as they were 20 years ago.

Show me the analysis.

[Special Agent]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Levin has already sold off what it could.  

Wrong.  You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Freda]

 " ...I gather you approved of what the Westland Racing Club did when if a fit of churlish pique they gave their assets back to the local community.  Racing on the West Coast lost to parochialism and an inability for the four clubs to work together..."

 

 

They worked together perfectly fine.     Greymouth gladly held the Westland day for them, as well as their own, continuing the four-day circuit.   Buses were put on to take the Hoki locals to 'their' day at Omoto.

So NZTR refused the permit for the 4th day from then onwards.

Churlish?  absolutely.  

Edited 1 hour ago by Freda

[Special Agent]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

 Yes Levin's contribution is significant but it isn't sustainable.  If Otaki want to subsidise them then that's their business.  Where have NZTR ever said that these Clubs DON'T contribute?  In terms of them being surplus isn't it more of a question of is the capital they have invested returning an income that makes them sustainable?  The accounts (that we have visibility of) say they aren't.  There is a bigger strategic picture that Clubs just don't want to address.  If Levin had racedays then very quickly they would end up in the same situation as Ellerslie (was), Te Rapa, Hastings, Trentham and so on.

So if jumpouts are the biggest contribution Levin makes to the racing industry you think they are not sustainable???

If you think Otaki is subsidising Levin you obviously don't know Horowhenua and Kapiti racing club history.  Didn't you ask about a Levin loan to Otaki from the financial statements?

The difference between racing at the likes of Ellerslie, and Levin is their local community.  How many Bayer Classics did you go to at Levin?

Levin didn't cease racing because it couldn't make money.  Go back over your history books Chief, and you will find one reason Levin is reluctant to join forces with anyone or anything again for the betterment of the industry because what might be deemed the betterment of the industry has been utterly detrimental to the Levin Racing Club.

[curious]

59 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Show me the analysis.

You don't need a complex analysis to work out that if you offer stakes aligned with what clubs earn, then you have a sustainable business. It's how the world works. Most of us and most businesses can't buy things or spend money on things just because we think we need them, a few governments and councils aside  We have to also have the revenue to pay for them, or like NZRacing, we end up in the dole queue, hand out to government and anyone else we can find to keep going.

[curious]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

 In terms of them being surplus isn't it more of a question of is the capital they have invested returning an income that makes them sustainable?  The accounts (that we have visibility of) say they aren't.

What? The accounts have absolutely nothing to do with NZTR or the Minister being able to deem a club a surplus venue and get an Order for transfer to the code. Where do you get that idea?

Edited 44 minutes ago by curious

[Special Agent]

On 12/1/2025 at 8:32 AM, Chief Stipe said:

I wouldn't be surprised if in the past when Otaki have squeaked Levin has just well if you want to increase the fee we may as well shift out dates to RACE at Awapuni.  I suspect that may have happened if it wasn't for the problems with the Awapuni track.

Be prepared to be surprised then.  Another example of you having no knowledge of club history yet giving opinion anyway.  The problems with the Awapuni track have nothing to do with Levin continuing to race at Otaki.

[Special Agent]

5 minutes ago, curious said:

What? The accounts have absolutely nothing to do with NZTR or the Minister being able to deem a club a surplus venue and get an Order for transfer to the code. Where do you get that idea?

Let's just think about this for a moment.

If Chief's theory was correct why would RACE be able to continue operating?  Awapuni should have transferred to the code many seasons ago.

[curious]

2 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

Let's just think about this for a moment.

If Chief's theory was correct why would RACE be able to continue operating?  Awapuni should have transferred to the code many seasons ago.

And Hastings maybe next?

[Murray Fish]

1 hour ago, Special Agent said:

How many Bayer Classics did you go to at Levin?

4