1700m Starts Ashburton Tomorrow?

[Newmarket]

Whats with all these short distance races lately, apart from 2 x 2400m races the rest are 1700m? 
I try to avoid betting on low class sprint races… 

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, Newmarket said:

Whats with all these short distance races lately, apart from 2 x 2400m races the rest are 1700m? 
I try to avoid betting on low class sprint races… 

Newmarket, it is absolutely stupidity coming from the Clubs programming these short distance races!

If they believe it is going to encourage punters to wager they are delusional!

If they think that these short races is going to entice  people to go on course for a day of short 2 minute races, then once again totally delusional!

All horses can run a mile and it is just not appealing to the majority of harness followers, but then again harness officialdom are doing very little to keep the industry going!

Whoever is deciding to program these miles are clearly not working in the best interests of trying to appeal to the public!

There are a couple of horses that I wouldve wagered on, but not over 1700m!

 

Edited Monday at 10:51 AM by Brodie

[mikeynz]

Might make  sense having a 1700 raceday at Ashburton tomorrow if Nelson didnt have a miles day 2 days earlier, Nelson need to revert to 2400 races on day 2, I suspect it would help numbers.

[Nowornever]

All tracks will soon be all mile racing Brodie. Happening everywhere

https://harnesslink.com/australia/carnival-of-miracles-goes-all-in-on-mile-racing/

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Nowornever said:

All tracks will soon be all mile racing Brodie. Happening everywhere

https://harnesslink.com/australia/carnival-of-miracles-goes-all-in-on-mile-racing/

yes it's much easier on horse and driver. Very routine and predictable. And a little Boring at times too as Brodie would suggest lol.  not quite the action of a NZ Cup race lol. 

I watched just the one race yesterday, Race 2 with COURAGE REACTOR who was stone last at the quarter mile,  but a fabulous timed run by Wilson House , coming home from the back, saw the horse get up on the line to WIN.  What a Great thing to See . 

9 horse fields are great like that (give All runners a chance to win ) and a beautiful racetrack like Ashburton helps as well.  Some more great 'modern NZ racing' . and the way of the future .( and the  present day too) .(Brodie only likes the 'Old days' 😉) 

Alas the long distance stuff is Too Tough on horses (recovery wise and race wise as well) Not many can do anything like was Swayzee and Leap To Fame do over distance lol.  it's hard to keep them interested and racing well , without going 'Flat'. even after one hard run wide over a mile and half which can really knock a horse around and effect it's future racing. Brodie doesn't understand that , as is not a trainer. 

thankfully in Aus the trainers and clubs KNOW it's In the horse's Best interests to race a mile to a mile and a quarter as they can Back up and race week to week . Which is very important.  so 95%of races are short as possible. 

 

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, Nowornever said:

All tracks will soon be all mile racing Brodie. Happening everywhere

https://harnesslink.com/australia/carnival-of-miracles-goes-all-in-on-mile-racing/

If that happens in NZ thrn you might as well turn out the lights!

Mile racing is just so boring and doesnt attract wagering from serious punters!

To attract new punters and enthusiasts to harness racing they need racing to be over longer distances than a mile.

Just isnt a fair contest and there is no doubt ownership will drop, but then again  the ones making the decisions arent owners or punters and with little business success.

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Brodie

[the galah]

i think gammalites correct.

The focus has shifted to short distances because they have less horse numbers, so they want them to run more often.

so sprint racing is a symptom of a declining sport. its seen as a soluition but in reality that solution is also part of the problem.

the irony is,sprint racing is part of the reason why the sport is declining, as we all know that what you get from horses running more often and  over short distances,is those who draw poorly or lack gate speed simply go back and just follow them around and wait for next week.That then leads to a  lack of punter confidence in the product and results in declining interest from the punter.

for me,i still like to watch harness racing,but the gallops is a far superior betting product because you always get the impression everyone is there to win. You can't say that these days about a lot of the harness racing in places like auckland and cambridge.

thats why those blokes from out the gate on thursdays,started off betting at the cambridge trots but lost interest and much preferred the betting on the nz greyhounds.Anyone who went in their syndicate would have got the same impression as they did,stay away from the trots.

Edited 6 hours ago by the galah

[Nowornever]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

The focus has shifted to short distances because they have less horse numbers, so they want them to run more often

But the optimum field number for the wagering sweet spot is 11 -14 so mile racing goes totally against their desire to increase field size for max betting revenue.  

[Gammalite]

19 minutes ago, Nowornever said:

But the optimum field number for the wagering sweet spot is 11 -14 so mile racing goes totally against their desire to increase field size for max betting revenue.  

yes that is definitely a problem then. 

Mile racing is for just 9-10 horses. We lobbyed QLD racing to cut the maximum field size for mile racing to 10.  they obliged and bought in that maximum limit of starters thankfully.

that's 2 down from the 12 they were racing at a mile sometimes,  up to about 5 years ago as the horse's running 11th and 12th at the quarter mile were NO Chance whatsoever , and so there was drivers not even 'having a go' whatsoever if caught in that position. A very bad look. and Something you see in NZ racing a lot still,  but not in Australia as we have 'proper' field sizes where everyone gets a chance thankfully.

1 hour ago, the galah said:

sprint racing is part of the reason why the sport is declining, as we all know that what you get from horses running more often and  over short distances,is those who draw poorly or lack gate speed simply go back and just follow them around and wait for next week.That then leads to a  lack of punter confidence in the product and results in declining interest from the punter.

Doesn't have to be. Gallopers are still attracting good betting , and the stayers are getting more rare. And the vast majority of runners , race at 1200m to 1400m . there is still a few good mile runners, but once you get 2000m and beyond the Horses get VERY Tired. the Margins Blow right out , and it's quite '0ff-putting to the punter to see the horse they invested on finish sometimes 1/2 furlong from the winner 😅😂😁  Brodie probably used to it over the years finishing way back, but smart Punters are CLOSER to the Winner in shorter races. and enjoy that feeling. Gallops and trots.  Who wants to see their wager way down the track in a stayers race ? no one really.

[Brodie]

26 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

yes that is definitely a problem then. 

Mile racing is for just 9-10 horses. We lobbyed QLD racing to cut the maximum field size for mile racing to 10.  they obliged and bought in that maximum limit of starters thankfully.

that's 2 down from the 12 they were racing at a mile sometimes,  up to about 5 years ago as the horse's running 11th and 12th at the quarter mile were NO Chance whatsoever , and so there was drivers not even 'having a go' whatsoever if caught in that position. A very bad look. and Something you see in NZ racing a lot still,  but not in Australia as we have 'proper' field sizes where everyone gets a chance thankfully.

Doesn't have to be. Gallopers are still attracting good betting , and the stayers are getting more rare. And the vast majority of runners , race at 1200m to 1400m . there is still a few good mile runners, but once you get 2000m and beyond the Horses get VERY Tired. the Margins Blow right out , and it's quite '0ff-putting to the punter to see the horse they invested on finish sometimes 1/2 furlong from the winner 😅😂😁  Brodie probably used to it over the years finishing way back, but smart Punters are CLOSER to the Winner in shorter races. and enjoy that feeling. Gallops and trots.  Who wants to see their wager way down the track in a stayers race ? no one really.

Gamma, not used to gallopers finishing down the track at all, as I do not invest on them!

Too hard to follow form, so I dont touch them!

You mention when they had 11 or 12 horses over the mile at Albion park, if you were out the back you had no chance!

Rest my case, mile racing is not what harness should be running over!

Horrible boring racing on all tracks in NZ.

Edited 4 hours ago by Brodie

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

You mention when they had 11 or 12 horses over the mile at Albion park, if you were out the back you had no chance!

Rest my case, mile racing is not what harness should be running over!

So you say all of America, Canada and Australia are wrong. with 8 horse mile racing. 

Ashburton looked great running a heap of just 9 and 10 horses 1700m races. very easy for horse and driver to find a spot and time their run. As Wilson House did from last and the outside barrier with average horse. in race 2 

sorry mate. you're living in the past if you think and extra lap of the track makes a difference to punters. Might just put them to sleep waiting for the action to start lol 😎. Very Tiring ? lol😉  Swayzee would outstay you anyway.

seriously though, I will mention having trained my first horses in NZ (nearly always over mile and half ) it has been WAY WAY Easier in Australia just Sprint training them over a mile . Rolling along 30 second quarters and zipping them home for a furlong or 2. Race driving a Piiece of Cake compared to NZ as well. you actually have to be a pretty handy driver to win in 14 horse races Brodster. with 13 others trying to mug ya. far far easier to win in Aus. I have mates going around Redcliffe at this very moment still training winners there. But NO CHANCE in the speed racing at Albion Park , and their horses would be dead of heart attack if they went 2400m at Redcliffe. 😅😂   they all say thank the Racing Gods for the 1700m .

He's My Reson should be winning Race 7 shortly. as only 1700m . just get tired if had to go 2400m for no reason lol 😉

[Brodie]

19 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

So you say all of America, Canada and Australia are wrong. with 8 horse mile racing. 

Ashburton looked great running a heap of just 9 and 10 horses 1700m races. very easy for horse and driver to find a spot and time their run. As Wilson House did from last and the outside barrier with average horse. in race 2 

sorry mate. you're living in the past if you think and extra lap of the track makes a difference to punters. Might just put them to sleep waiting for the action to start lol 😎. Very Tiring ? lol😉  Swayzee would outstay you anyway.

seriously though, I will mention having trained my first horses in NZ (nearly always over mile and half ) it has been WAY WAY Easier in Australia just Sprint training them over a mile . Rolling along 30 second quarters and zipping them home for a furlong or 2. Race driving a Piiece of Cake compared to NZ as well. you actually have to be a pretty handy driver to win in 14 horse races Brodster. with 13 others trying to mug ya. far far easier to win in Aus. I have mates going around Redcliffe at this very moment still training winners there. But NO CHANCE in the speed racing at Albion Park , and their horses would be dead of heart attack if they went 2400m at Redcliffe. 😅😂   they all say thank the Racing Gods for the 1700m .

He's My Reson should be winning Race 7 shortly. as only 1700m . just get tired if had to go 2400m for no reason lol 😉

Fair enough Gamma.

Lets have 8 or 9 horses races on every programme so that owners have more chance of getting some stake money!

What I would be betting on is that harness racing in NZ will be gone in 10 years if not sooner through lack of participants, lack of punting and lack of horses!

It is going to be bad enough in 2 years when the stakes are going to be slashed and there will be owners and breeders running fir the hills.

[Gammalite]

30 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Fair enough Gamma.

Lets have 8 or 9 horses races on every programme so that owners have more chance of getting some stake money!

What I would be betting on is that harness racing in NZ will be gone in 10 years if not sooner through lack of participants, lack of punting and lack of horses!

It is going to be bad enough in 2 years when the stakes are going to be slashed and there will be owners and breeders running fir the hills.

yes , sadder times are approaching. The sport is on borrowed time now as you say.

We had a couple of miracles in Aus that has saved the day in some States when it would of collapsed . so wishing NZ some luck that the Sport can re-vitalise. My favourite of the Interdominion got re-vamped and is on again so things are possible. Alas NZ has run it only once the past 15 years so the sport lost all publicity. 

Victoria gone broke , and already running with the slashed stakemoney. yes I guess NZ will follow suit with the same amount of participants and interest I guess. ( QLD has even less generally but has Millionaire owners and Entain Ladbrokes propping it up for cohort of 500 horses racing weekly.)

A lot of the NZ participants are retiring soon when the game closes there in North Island. They're ALL very old now. Mike Berger already did. But Ray Green, Maurice McKendry,  Barry Purdon, Mark Purdon, AGH,  old man Hughes, old Ferguson, Old Mango, Old David Butcher, even Bernie H  don't really need to go round with them anymore after all these decades of success. No one has been good enough to challenge them generally? which has left very few even trying. for as long as I can remember. 

Perhaps the younger ones who might continue in the sport like Matty White and Arna Donnelly could shift to the South Island ? or Queensland would be better for them as get a lot more winners like Graeme Harris and Tim Butt did.   

some like Delaney and Phelan and Zac Butcher and Tony Cameron should tackle Menangle and really make a name for themselves . ? like Jack Trainor did for NZ.