Slot race Cambridge.

[pete cook]

I'm becoming a bit bored with this, but just got back from walking the dog and would like to point out two things. First, the Industry was told, when Slot races were introduced, that the main advantage was that they would "cost the Industry nothing". Who, or what changed that? (and to be fair to Mr. Steele, it was before his time).

Second, in his speech at a "future is Now" presentation just after he started, Mr. Steele suggested that slots could be bought by groups of say, 30 young people, who could put in $10k each. At the time, I remember laughing out loud at the naivety of that idea. Sadly I have been proven right.

Oh, and just a last thought regarding having good horses. Using Mr. Boots as an example, how many horses has he bought that have been developed by excellent NZ trainers and gone on to be his stars? The problem is that your average owner has little alternative than to sell to rich owners like him.

[Gammalite]

9 minutes ago, pete cook said:

Using Mr. Boots as an example, how many horses has he bought that have been developed by excellent NZ trainers and gone on to be his stars? The problem is that your average owner has little alternative than to sell to rich owners like him.

yes the NZ stock is great.

The racing there is Not consistent . you need regular week to week racing like Mildura, Redcliffe, Hobart, Penrith and a heap of other locations just to Break even by winning 4 Races per year.

The West Australia famous HALL and BOND stables have been buying horses from Southland for years and years Peter. Probably 1000 horses by now. I'm theMightyQuinn probably the best.  they're still buying now. Pete McMullens owner bought top slot trotter GUS from down there at Nathan Williamsons in recent years too.

Boots raced Captains Mistress out of Nathans as well. Tonight she'll win the Chariots of Fire and be a star of all time. Unfortunately Nathan was going to win a Group 1 at Auckland with her but his sulky' fell apart 100m from the line. Probably the worst bit of BAD LUCK I've ever seen in the Sport. (Hope Nathan has mended from Injury) 

Village Kid and Lightning Blue went on to be Interdominion Grand Final Champions after being Sold to the Aussies for $40,000 each in the 1980's . I helped bring about 50 horses out of NZ with the South Auckland Standardbred agency and they nearly all went on to win in Australia. 

NONE of The NZ Owners Had to Sell . They just wanted to. They knew they couldn't compete up in the grades against Roy and Barry , Charlie Hunter ( who would export to USA)  and in the south DerekJones , Smolenski,  Butt family, Dunn and Dalgety , etc. they are world class and too good for them.

Hence most of the owner trainers are still hacking around out your Sunday meetings  on grass or whatever to this day. And always Looking for an Aussie Buyer. thankfully Shannon and Boots at the yearlings sales leave a few horses with NZ trainers these days . Very enterprising men . and ultra successful in life.  

 

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, pete cook said:

Oh, and just a last thought regarding having good horses. Using Mr. Boots as an example, how many horses has he bought that have been developed by excellent NZ trainers and gone on to be his stars? The problem is that your average owner has little alternative than to sell to rich owners like him.

But that's nothing new.  It has been happening for as long as I can remember.  We got good money selling horses to the USA in the 70's.  Then again I doubt any average owner would sell a really good horse if they knew it was good.

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

They haven't squandered all of it.  They have improved their cash assets from $12m in 2021 to $32m in 2025.

Thats good that it isnt all gone!

Is there anywhere that shows us this increased cash position?

The increase is clearly from Entain and is the extra $20m you say they have, the money from Entain for the next couple of years that will be used for stakes over the next couple of years?

What is the true asset position of HRNZ do we know?

In the Entain Terms and Conditions was it written that HRNZ has to spend the full amount on stakes and bonuses in the 5 years?
Investing the funds from Entain wisely to give them a good return to be able to fund the stakes would have been a helluva better option!

 

[Chief Stipe]

16 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Thats good that it isnt all gone!

Is there anywhere that shows us this increased cash position?

The increase is clearly from Entain and is the extra $20m you say they have, the money from Entain for the next couple of years that will be used for stakes over the next couple of years?

What is the true asset position of HRNZ do we know?

In the Entain Terms and Conditions was it written that HRNZ has to spend the full amount on stakes and bonuses in the 5 years?
Investing the funds from Entain wisely to give them a good return to be able to fund the stakes would have been a helluva better option!

 

In the 2025 annual report.  The 2021 figure is in that years report.

2025_HRNZ_Annual_Report.pdf

[Chief Stipe]

18 minutes ago, Brodie said:

In the Entain Terms and Conditions was it written that HRNZ has to spend the full amount on stakes and bonuses in the 5 years?
Investing the funds from Entain wisely to give them a good return to be able to fund the stakes would have been a helluva better option!

My understanding is that the lump sum is handed to TABNZ.  They then determine the split between the three codes.  When delivered to the codes they can do whatever they want with it.  Both NZTR and HRNZ have been stashing some.  HRNZ has been put some into infrastructure e.g. resurfacing of 5 tracks.  NZTR are spending some of theirs on track infrastructure including tracks resurfacing although it costs more to fix a turf track than an all weather one.

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

They haven't squandered all of it.  They have improved their cash assets from $12m in 2021 to $32m in 2025.

that doesn't tell us anything about whether the way hrnz is currently  operating is financially sustainable.

it has no context.

Its like you saying someone has $100,000 more in the back than 4 years ago,so gee, they must be doing a good job.

But i then say to you,well they inherited $200,000,3 years ago. Then you would change your tune and say,they are going through their money.

of course hrnz have received all the entain money and the $13m from forbury since 2021.. so we need proper context.

[the galah]

43 minutes ago, the galah said:

that doesn't tell us anything about whether the way hrnz is currently  operating is financially sustainable.

it has no context.

Its like you saying someone has $100,000 more in the back than 4 years ago,so gee, they must be doing a good job.

But i then say to you,well they inherited $200,000,3 years ago. Then you would change your tune and say,they are going through their money.

of course hrnz have received all the entain money and the $13m from forbury since 2021.. so we need proper context.

so i have just had a brief look at the annual report you posted which does provide context for the change from 2024 to 2025.

so in 2024 they had $35m ,then a year later(2025) they have dropped $3m to $32m

.

Then we factor in that hrnz won't be getting that guaranteed mimimun from entain in a year or two,that they are currently receiving,

then we factor in that mr steele wants to spend millions on a new auckland training centre,then we factor in the forbury mony is supposed to be tied up for specific use as per the agreement with forbury.

I haven't read the report thoroughly,but to me after a qucik look, the signs are there to indicate that what brodie and i and others are saying is the true picture,when you look behind all the hrnz spin.

the reason they would have used the 2021 comparison was simply spin.So why did they feel the need to spin it.

Edited yesterday at 06:13 AM by the galah

[Brodie]

28 minutes ago, the galah said:

so i have just had a brief look at the annual report you posted which does provide context for the change from 2024 to 2025.

so in 2024 they had $35m ,then a year later(2025) they have dropped $3m to $32m

.

Then we factor in that hrnz won't be getting that guaranteed mimimun from entain in a year or two,that they are currently receiving,

then we factor in that mr steele wants to spend millions on a new auckland training centre,then we factor in the forbury mony is supposed to be tied up for specific use as per the agreement with forbury.

I haven't read the report thoroughly,but to me after a qucik look, the signs are there to indicate that what brodie and i and others are saying is the true picture,when you look behind all the hrnz spin.

the reason they would have used the 2021 comparison was simply spin.So why did they feel the need to spin it.

Looking at it and I only skimmed through it and looked at the bigger numbers rather than the general things!

Much appreciate Chief giving us all the report to analyse.

On the face of it, there has probably been some stabilisation but does not give too much confidence in the overall picture when there has been 13million from Forbury Park sale and the mega millions already received from TAB/Entain in the last couple of years!

One question that should seriously be asked is of the sale price of Forbury Park for over 13 million, why was there a cost to sell of 10% of the sale price??????? WTF did someone get financially rewarded massively??? They need to explain as it seems s very very fishy does it not? 
32million is not a large amount to have bearing in mind Auckland owes in excess of $80million and growing by 500k per month and Cambridge is BROKE and will not be able to trade out either of them!

There is also promises that HRNZ have made in the future that has to be accounted for and the Entain funding to HRNZ is going to be significantly reduced in coming years?

At the end of the day hopefully HRNZ are in good hands and they do best for the industry to survive and thrive,  but are there many out there that believe they are

Edited yesterday at 06:37 AM by Brodie

[the galah]

28 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Looking at it and I only skimmed through it and looked at the bigger numbers rather than the general things!

Much appreciate Chief giving us all the report to analyse.

On the face of it, there has probably been some stabilisation but does not give too much confidence in the overall picture when there has been 13million from Forbury Park sale and the mega millions already received from TAB/Entain in the last couple of years!

One question that should seriously be asked is of the sale price of Forbury Park for over 13 million, why was there a cost to sell of 10% of the sale price??????? WTF did someone get financially rewarded massively??? They need to explain as it seems s very very fishy does it not? 
32million is not a large amount to have bearing in mind Auckland owes in excess of $80million and growing by 500k per month and Cambridge is BROKE and will not be able to trade out either of them!

There is also promises that HRNZ have made in the future that has to be accounted for and the Entain funding to HRNZ is going to be significantly reduced in coming years?

At the end of the day hopefully HRNZ are in good hands and they do best for the industry to survive and thrive,  but are there many out there that believe they are

ii wouldn't call it stabalisation.

if you take off what they said they were proposing  to spend on the new auckland training track,then take off the forbury money,which has its conditions attached then take off another drop of $3 million for next year,what have you got. An industry in financial trouble is what you would have.

current leadership seem to be betting on the returns to harness racing from the geo blocking ,especially from sport,and the demise of the greyhound indutry,being enough to keep the ship afloat .

they are going to look really ,really dumb if their bet doesn't pay off.

hey,just how their bet fares,no one on either side of the argument can be sure.I think its going to be  a losing bet,but the level of damage,just serious,not terminal.

personally i think the bet they're making is going to turn out its not going to turn out really,really badtbe as bad as some think,just its still going to be bad

the point  is,why even make the bet in the first place.,why not just operate within your means until you know all the facts.

 

Edited yesterday at 07:08 AM by the galah

[Brodie]

The stabilisation comment was that they werent losing as much as they were previously!

some will see it as being ok, others can see it as not so good, definitely can not see how they could possibly be able to continue to race for the stake money currently and expect to be able to make it pay?

Would be good to hear from Brad Steele again to see how he thinks things are going now and in the future?

30million is buggerall to show for the years they have been going and would be grest to know what the financial situation was in say the year 2000?

Edited 23 hours ago by Brodie

[Chief Stipe]

14 hours ago, the galah said:

that doesn't tell us anything about whether the way hrnz is currently  operating is financially sustainable.

it has no context.

Its like you saying someone has $100,000 more in the back than 4 years ago,so gee, they must be doing a good job.

But i then say to you,well they inherited $200,000,3 years ago. Then you would change your tune and say,they are going through their money.

of course hrnz have received all the entain money and the $13m from forbury since 2021.. so we need proper context.

So they HAVEN'T squandered it all contrary to @Brodie and your assertions.

[Chief Stipe]

13 hours ago, the galah said:

he reason they would have used the 2021 comparison was simply spin.So why did they feel the need to spin it.

THEY didn't use the comparison.  I did and it wasn't SPIN.  It was for CONTEXT and COMPARISON which you keep banging on about.

[Chief Stipe]

What IS really interesting is that both @the galah and @Brodie have admitted they haven't bothered to read the HRNZ Annual Accounts!!!!

Which I might add are freely available for downloading from the Incorporated Societies website amd the HRNZ website.

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

What IS really interesting is that both @the galah and @Brodie have admitted they haven't bothered to read the HRNZ Annual Accounts!!!!

Which I might add are freely available for downloading from the Incorporated Societies website amd the HRNZ website.

You are correct Chief that I hadnt checked out the accounts for HRNZ at all, and appreciated you showing the actual financial position!

What it does appear to show us all is that they are not that financial to give us much confidence in the future considering recent receipts such as Forbury sale and Entain putting mega millions in and with future promises!

How do we think Auckland and Cambridge are going to get out of the shite, when HRNZ dont appear to be in any position to help are they?

 

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

So they HAVEN'T squandered it all contrary to @Brodie and your assertions.

Your interpretation of what we've been saying is not accurate.

What we've clearly been saying is hrnz's expenditure is not sustainable and that they will be eating into their cash reserves which will eventually leave them short when it comes to having funds for future stake levels..

the books you quoted show a drop of $3 million in just 1 year.

and we've been saying that the guaranteed minimum return from wagering  runs out in a couple of years .So theres a possibilty  that their income from that source could be reduced.If it is,then add that to the $3m shortfall per year.

Then ,you seem to have ignored Mr steeles on record statements about HRNZ policy as far as supporting Auckland harness racing. 

Hes said hrnz will help the atc set up a training establishment when they have sold the pukekohe training centre. Thats in the $10's of millions,,seemingly close to $20.

Anyone can tell thats never going to happen. Any fool should be able to see if it did happen the whole of nz harness racing  is screwed. 

so you take off the 20m hrnz  investment in auckland  from the $32m and then you take off the current $3m a year they are ovberspending and within 4 years your cash reserves are gone.

then you factor in the $13.4m they got from forbury supposedly not being able to be used for auckland anyway,so that would mean if they proceeded with the auckland training centre they may have to borrow money to do that.Of course that won't happen,it will instead be big stake cuts.

thats all assuming they were to keep stake levels at their current rates.

Now obviously thats a picture that is over simplified given the many variables,but its still accurate enough to paint a picture of where things are headed if HRNZ stick to what they have said they will do.

One day,someone at hrnz will start making some sensiblejudgment calls you would hope.

Edited 9 hours ago by the galah

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

What IS really interesting is that both @the galah and @Brodie have admitted they haven't bothered to read the HRNZ Annual Accounts!!!!

Which I might add are freely available for downloading from the Incorporated Societies website amd the HRNZ website.

So what myself and brodie have been saying  long ,long before the report was available for reading,turns out to be true.

The report confirms what we've been saying.

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

THEY didn't use the comparison.  I did and it wasn't SPIN.  It was for CONTEXT and COMPARISON which you keep banging on about.

prepping for a job at hrnz are you. It was an irrelevant comparison and you would have known it when you came up with it.

Edited 9 hours ago by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, the galah said:

So what myself and brodie have been saying  long ,long before the report was available for reading,turns out to be true.

The report confirms what we've been saying.

It doesn't actually.  However the fact is you were both operating on hunches rather than looking at the accounts.  That is half the problem with the industry at all levels.  They bleat on about decisions being made that are wrong and so on but never avail themselves of the facts.  Your assertions may very well be correct but talking in hyperbole and generalisations lacks credibility.

3 hours ago, the galah said:

prepping for a job at hrnz are you. It was an irrelevant comparison and you would have known it when you came up with it.

I'm not prepping for any job.  The fact is both you and @Brodie contended that the ENTAIN and other capital had been squandered.  Now if you really want to change things refer to Note 20 in the 2025 report and make a comment on what the $8.5 million that has been allocated to improving breeding levels and directly related stakes incentives SHOULD be spent on.  Bleating on for days and months won't change anything - positive solutions will.  However those positive solutions aren't non-win maidens at Reefton!  

You both may wish to look at pages 33 and 34 and see which assets can be consolidated to ensure Harness Racing pays its way.  Note Reefton is jointly owned with Thoroughbred Racing - what happens if the latter wants out?  Should HRNZ buy their share so you can have more non-win trots at Reefton?

[Brodie]

28 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

It doesn't actually.  However the fact is you were both operating on hunches rather than looking at the accounts.  That is half the problem with the industry at all levels.  They bleat on about decisions being made that are wrong and so on but never avail themselves of the facts.  Your assertions may very well be correct but talking in hyperbole and generalisations lacks credibility.

I'm not prepping for any job.  The fact is both you and @Brodie contended that the ENTAIN and other capital had been squandered.  Now if you really want to change things refer to Note 20 in the 2025 report and make a comment on what the $8.5 million that has been allocated to improving breeding levels and directly related stakes incentives SHOULD be spent on.  Bleating on for days and months won't change anything - positive solutions will.  However those positive solutions aren't non-win maidens at Reefton!  

You both may wish to look at pages 33 and 34 and see which assets can be consolidated to ensure Harness Racing pays its way.  Note Reefton is jointly owned with Thoroughbred Racing - what happens if the latter wants out?  Should HRNZ buy their share so you can have more non-win trots at Reefton?

Chief, we were looking at how  HRNZ were operating with the money from Entain, when they shouldve been investing wisely and with restrain, rather than operating like a kid in a lollyshop!

We all knew that things were not great prior to Entain’s promise of massive funds for 50% of the TAB profits for 25 years!

Looking at the 2025 accounts the accounts are not looking as good as they should be bearing in mind the funds received from the Forbury Park sale and Entain contributions!

We have the major issues with the AtC and Cambridge clubs as they appear they are in 

quicksand and not able to get out?

Is there anyone apart from Gsmmalite that can try and convince us that HRNZ have acted financially responsibly to enrich harness racing into the future, as from the sidelines it doesnt look great!

 

 

 

 

 

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

the fact is you were both operating on hunches rather than looking at the accounts.  That is half the problem with the industry at all levels.  They bleat on about decisions being made that are wrong and so on but never avail themselves of the facts.  Your assertions may very well be correct but talking in hyperbole and generalisations lacks credibility.

 

so your saying our opinions were "hunches".

a hunch meaning "a guess based on intuition rather than fact".

i agree with that.

then you go on to say we "may very well be correct".

i agree with that.

But then you lose me when you  add words which infer anyone who makes predictions which turn out to be true,lack credibility.That makes no sense

 

[Brodie]

27 minutes ago, the galah said:

so your saying our opinions were "hunches".

a hunch meaning "a guess based on intuition rather than fact".

i agree with that.

then you go on to say we "may very well be correct".

i agree with that.

But then you lose me when you  add words which infer anyone who makes predictions which turn out to be true,lack credibility.That makes no sense

 

To be fair, you dont really need to be Einstein to see what is happening with HRNZ and their usage of the mega millions being received from Entain!

The other thing is that the TAB is also operating in a way that is is also detrimental to the best business practices of increasing turnover!

The truth of the matter is rather than just a hunch, it is more having the ability to judge whether they are actually making sound business decisions!

The fact is that Galah and Brodie are prepared to speak up while others who think the same and say nothing is an indictment on the industry and its future prospects!

More need to be speaking up now rather than let the once great harness industry self destruct by the decision makers not protecting what we have!

More than happy to be totally wrong and time will tell!

Edited 1 hour ago by Brodie

[Gammalite]

19 minutes ago, Brodie said:

To be fair, you dont really need to be Einstein to see what is happening with HRNZ and their usage of the mega millions being received from Entain!

Absolutely correct . They're putting on the best races , Attracting the Best horses (and Horsepeople)  ever seen on NZ shores,

like LEAP TO FAME , Just Believe, Gus, Swayzee, Kingman , Arcee Phoenix,  Marketplace , Merlin , Akuta, Republican Party and many more.  and grass roots Golden Gaits and $5000 stallion classic, harness millions and more. Maidens at Reefton  are even getting more than $6000 for their win's today in the Bush Sundays .💰👍  fabulous stuff.

And the racing is getting Rave reviews around the planet .

Aussies are flooding in as they can't match this brilliance .  well we do in QLD through July and that's about it. 🙄

Well done Brodster. You've encouraged Entain to support the harness industry of NewZealand . A very worthwhile cause . and the racing has Never been better.  The Slot Races at Cambridge with the user pay concept have been just sensational quality horses and racing (and horsemen too)  for 4 years now. 

How good is HRNZ doing this for everyone involved in the industry in Australasia ?  . just Gold Medal standard. 

CEO should be nominated for an OBE for brilliant service to the Sport.  NZ harness racing through the ceiling with quality support of all their participants.