When a brazen affair can lead to toxic terminal group think.

[Chief Stipe]

When self-destructive groupthink drives an online community or social media group to radicalize, alienate others, or collapse under the weight of its own toxic consensus, it is broadly referred to as collective polarization or an echo chamber effect supercharged by online disinhibition. [1, 2, 3]

While there is no single official scientific term exclusively for "self-destruct" groupthink, several overlapping social and psychological concepts describe this behavior: [1]

 

Key Concepts and Related Terms

• Group Polarization: The tendency for like-minded groups on social media to shift toward more extreme, risk-prone, or irrational positions than any single member would hold on their own. [1, 2]

• Echo Chamber / In-group Enforcement: Insular digital spaces where dissent is punished, ideological purity is enforced, and the group cuts itself off from reality, often leading to self-sabotage or radical isolation. [1]

• Online Disinhibition Effect: The lack of restraint felt in digital spaces, which accelerates extreme or destructive collective behavior due to a lack of immediate face-to-face social cues. [1]

• Mass Hysteria / Collective Obsession: Rapid, ungrounded emotional contagion spreading across a network that causes a group to act against its own collective self-interest. [1, 2, 3]

 

[Chief Stipe]

A classic case of Toxic Group Think.  Like most of the brazen affair - Astari wins at Echuca.  All the owners are listed in the racebook - apparently "Te Akau is learning".

Well some of the owners bred the horse and brought others into the ownership.  It was syndicated by Te Akau and was registered first in Australia.

Little do the rabble know that many people buy into a Syndicate to NOT have their name published in a racebook but where it matters - on the winning photo.

 

[hesi]

Wasting your time CS, they will look to pick holes wherever they can.  Deluded self-belief that they are right

[Chief Stipe]

16 minutes ago, hesi said:

Wasting your time CS, they will look to pick holes wherever they can.  Deluded self-belief that they are right

Well the question is when will the paranoid @Comic Dog start banning posters who disagree with him?  Afterall we are led to believe (propaganda?) that his forum is open to anyone and it only "reports the truth that everyone needs to know"!!!

BTW @Comic Dog Leigh Mckenzie I never deleted anything on your forum as instructed by Leo Molloy.  All I did was hide it from public view.  If it was deleted then you or your "employees" did it.  LOL sometimes an old time IT guru remembers a few tricks!

[hesi]

Hahaha

Well he deletes them off the FB site when they say something that doesn’t fit with the narrative

Here’s a laugh for you on the subject of banning.  You may recall when after 3 months when BOAY was going gangbusters, 80 plus posts per day just on thoroughbreds, he was apologising online to people for banning them

Shallow person 

[Chief Stipe]

9 hours ago, hesi said:

Hahaha

Well he deletes them off the FB site when they say something that doesn’t fit with the narrative

Here’s a laugh for you on the subject of banning.  You may recall when after 3 months when BOAY was going gangbusters, 80 plus posts per day just on thoroughbreds, he was apologising online to people for banning them

Shallow person 

Yes he doesn't support free speech only a negative narrative.  

[hesi]

And so much for the much mentioned transparency that is demanded of everyone else.

Censor out what you don't like, that doesn't fit with the narrative.

That TA thread has developed into nothing more than a vendetta against TA and moved on to a vendetta against MW, I must add by anonymous posters and is expected to be taken seriously.

Be careful Phil, your mailbox will be disappearing again lol

[Chief Stipe]

25 minutes ago, hesi said:

And so much for the much mentioned transparency that is demanded of everyone else.

Censor out what you don't like, that doesn't fit with the narrative.

That TA thread has developed into nothing more than a vendetta against TA and moved on to a vendetta against MW, I must add by anonymous posters and is expected to be taken seriously.

Be careful Phil, your mailbox will be disappearing again lol

It is actually worse than that.  There is only a poorly constructed narrative supporting a vendetta.  There is NO hard evidence.  When asked to produce the evidence there is always a response "it is coming".  "Just wait there is more!".

When challenged on what they purport to be "facts" you get cancelled.

Remember the fiction about the "appalling state of the cracked hooves".  The "two (nameless) world class farriers" that were consulted to support their fictional story.  All based on a close up of shadows on a low pixel photo on Gavelhouse.  

Do they really think that a stable that spends at least $15m a year in NZ alone would race a horse in that condition let alone attempt to it cover it up?  Of course not but logic doesn't stop the toxic group think from adding more negative rhetoric.

Then we have the nonsense about the shares left in yearlings.  $10.5m worth and only $400k unsold is hardly an indication of "owners leaving in droves"!  It is actually a measure of success.  Not to mention that the three protagonist creators of the negative narrative clearly don't understand how syndication works. 

Perhaps sales have been slower this year but everyone involved in NZ Business is feeling the effects of a very sluggish economy.  Easy to pontificate from behind your retiree keyboard.  But no mention that the chanpion Imperatriz was the last yearling purchase of her year to have all the shares sold in September 2019.

 

[hesi]

Yep, 4-5% overall unsold overall in the 30 plus yearling syndicates, was conveniently presented as 18 yearling syndicates not sold.

In today's tough market for everything, most would accept a 94-95% sale as a good result, as hard as they have tried to put the boot into the TA syndication machine.

And I'm not stupid, I'm sure TA clip the ticket as much as they can, so do many businesses.  try taking your dog to the local vet and see how much you get charged.

As with everything there is always the option to look elsewhere

 

[hesi]

Also if you look at the TA syndicate model, they add a set fee of $12K onto the price of each horse purchased, regardless of whether it cost them 100K or 1 million, then work out the share price based on, in the 2 cases I have quoted, 112k or 1.012 mil.  Respectively $11,200 for 10% or $101,200.

Other syndicators, such as Go Racing, add a percentage, 10% I think.  So in the examples above, $10k and $100k

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, hesi said:

Yep, 4-5% overall unsold overall in the 30 plus yearling syndicates, was conveniently presented as 18 yearling syndicates not sold.

In today's tough market for everything, most would accept a 94-95% sale as a good result, as hard as they have tried to put the boot into the TA syndication machine.

And I'm not stupid, I'm sure TA clip the ticket as much as they can, so do many businesses.  try taking your dog to the local vet and see how much you get charged.

As with everything there is always the option to look elsewhere

 

It is no different to any large syndicator.  If they think Marsh and Wexford are any different then they need to question their motivation.  The major stables in Australia ALL have the same invoicing setup and in Australia the invoice structure is published online for ALL to see.  Everyone who signs up to a syndicate with Te Akau gets a full disclosure document.  I see one "new" owner putting the boot in online has referred to their share in a Te Akau syndicate as an "investment"!  Hopefully they have spread their risk beyond one horse and have taken shares in multiple horses including throwing the dice a the breeding fillies and colts syndicates.  Then they have a chance of a return.  That is what any investor in Bloodstock does including savvy owners.

Another point is NONE of the 3 main protagonists have invested anywhere near the amount in their lifetimes in anything that Te Akau invest and put at risk each year.  For that that matter Te Akau train at least three times each year what one of them trained in their training lifetime!!

If Te Akau fail then arguably Racing in NZ fails.  Now isn't the time for the tall poppy syndrome.

[hesi]

3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

It is no different to any large syndicator.  If they think Marsh and Wexford are any different then they need to question their motivation.  The major stables in Australia ALL have the same invoicing setup and in Australia the invoice structure is published online for ALL to see.  Everyone who signs up to a syndicate with Te Akau gets a full disclosure document.  I see one "new" owner putting the boot in online has referred to their share in a Te Akau syndicate as an "investment"!  Hopefully they have spread their risk beyond one horse and have taken shares in multiple horses including throwing the dice a the breeding fillies and colts syndicates.  Then they have a chance of a return.  That is what any investor in Bloodstock does including savvy owners.

Another point is NONE of the 3 main protagonists have invested anywhere near the amount in their lifetimes in anything that Te Akau invest and put at risk each year.  For that that matter Te Akau train at least three times each year what one of them trained in their training lifetime!!

If Te Akau fail then arguably Racing in NZ fails.  Now isn't the time for the tall poppy syndrome.

I think they are too choked up with their personal bitterness towards TA to see that.

IF TA fails then also a lot of ancillary businesses fail and a lot of young people who are passionate about horses will potentially lose their dream and employment

[Gammalite]

Some people have had a bad experience lately . They have expressed their disatisfaction with the situation , and given reasons why. regarding Syndicate racing.  and the information they receive about their horse anytime.

An EXTREMELY difficult job being the Laison for a major stable with lots of syndicate owners who All want something different from the situation. Horses Have FLAWS. Lots of them , like BA, have issues. It is hard to send x-rays to owners for every little thing that happens . They then demand to know what it is they are looking at?, How long will it take to mend? will this horse return a profit? sometimes impossible questions . 

Unfortunately  Te Akau racing , are the target of a lot of the on-line vitriol , because they Syndicate a LOT of horses , each year for many years.  There are a LOT of people involved. Obviously you get good results with some and Poor results with others. and lately since Mr Richards left , and the stable set up a huge team in the Very hard market of Victoria racing, the stable results are in a decline phase. 

Big Stables in Australia have many SYNDICATE horses. A very popular investment these days,  like with OTI or many others, they Import expensive European thoroughbreds all year long , to syndicate and place with TOP trainers , and are pretty hard to beat. They do get beat though . as happens in racing, and with the costs of racing a thoroughbred these days, most don't expect 'Huge' gains on their investments. It's a bit of fun . Something to spend their retirement money on , etc.

Syndicate racing is full of flaws , and Full of good moments too. I could make great lists for both cases. In the trotting game we found a 'syndication' method that worked very well (to keep people involved well with their horse) But not with the numbers that MICROSHARES in thoroughbreds do these days. It also involved having 2 horses as Chief suggested earlier. There is a Strong advantage in that for sure.  there are lots you can do . 

Is awful if posting on forums discredits other peoples experiences. or Criticises the efforts of people who bought happiness and involvement and competitiveness to the racing scene.

No good worrying about what is on other forums . Just get on with your own reports and experiences.

Invite some Syndicate members to Post here . might have constructive things to say . All the destructive things are getting awful. and people are scared to post now.  

[Chief Stipe]

34 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Some people have had a bad experience lately . They have expressed their disatisfaction with the situation , and given reasons why. regarding Syndicate racing.  and the information they receive about their horse anytime.

I can assure you that most of that dissatisfaction has no foundation.  Sometimes though you can't treat all people equal primarily because of their attitude.  From what I can see there is only one dissatisfied person and two people with ulterior motives sticking their oar in because they have a strange belief that they will benefit from it.  Their expression of benign benevolence of bringing "truth" to the word is NOT genuine.

[Chief Stipe]

42 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Invite some Syndicate members to Post here . might have constructive things to say . All the destructive things are getting awful. and people are scared to post now.  

Quite frankly most people don't give a damn about what is being written on toxic forums.  

[KickintheKods]

Transparency..........did someone say transparency.

There are plenty of Kiwis who worked in Singapore who have long memories.

 

https://www.elitigation.sg/gd/s/2003_SGHC_175?ref=legal-wires.com

[hesi]

7 minutes ago, KickintheKods said:

Transparency..........did someone say transparency.

There are plenty of Kiwis who worked in Singapore who have long memories.

 

https://www.elitigation.sg/gd/s/2003_SGHC_175?ref=legal-wires.com

Can someone do a précis of this.  A lot of reading

[Chief Stipe]

18 minutes ago, KickintheKods said:

Transparency..........did someone say transparency.

There are plenty of Kiwis who worked in Singapore who have long memories.

 

https://www.elitigation.sg/gd/s/2003_SGHC_175?ref=legal-wires.com

Interesting - one of the participants had a registered company and office in Singapore.

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, hesi said:

Can someone do a précis of this.  A lot of reading

Paragraph 1 is quite apt!!

1            Racehorse owners do not train their horses themselves.  They buy them and send them to trainers who look after them and prepare them for racing.  If the horses do not perform to expectation there may be unhappiness.

[hesi]

19 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Interesting - one of the participants had a registered company and office in Singapore.

Is that anything to do with the IP address you traced

[Chief Stipe]

Mmmm the real reason for the fetish?  I wonder who the nameless "good syndicators" are.  I wonder what the criteria for "good" is.  Certainly they must have low social media standards. 

 

[hesi]

57 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Mmmm the real reason for the fetish?  I wonder who the nameless "good syndicators" are.  I wonder what the criteria for "good" is.  Certainly they must have low social media standards. 

 

Probably one of his 'mates' lol

 

[Chief Stipe]

What a laugh!  I see the @Comic Dog the south asian recycled glove magnate has reprimanded a positive Te Akau poster for straying off topic.  LOL if anyone can work out what the Topic is about then that reprimand is the best clue out 1,500 largely pure Anti-Te Akau toxicity.

Even the person who started the Topic in January by asking the simple question "Are we witnessing the end of the Te Akau dominance?" has not posted again in 1,500+ posts.

Clearly the answer to the original question was NO given Te Akau once again won the NZ Trainers Premiership with ease.

But of course it hasn't stopped Bob Scott ( @nomates ) the digruntled owner amd author of the fictional Novella - A Brazen Affaiir from hijacking the original Topic.  Along with his merry men in forest green tights Leigh Mckenzie (Friar Tuck), Barry Wallace and late to the party Brent Gardiner.  

Meanwhile we wait for "the big reveal" of a scandal purported to be of wine box proportions...waiting...waitimg...

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

 But of course it hasn't stopped Bob Scott (  ) the digruntled owner amd author of the fictional Novella - A Brazen Affaiir from hijacking the original Topic.  Along with his merry men in forest green tights Leigh Mckenzie (Friar Tuck), Barry Wallace and late to the party Brent Gardiner.  

Haha what party?

Edited September 19 by curious

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

 

Meanwhile we wait for "the big reveal" of a scandal purported to be of wine box proportions...waiting...waitimg...

Oh, that will come  but you will need some patience which doesn't seem to be one of your current strengths.