Joe Kidd Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 when he shouted "Happppppy" at the start of Race 1 at Addington tonight? Copperfield galloped in the run up and in doing so checked Virgil who did his best to be on the arm at the start but was one and half to two lengths out of position. This meant Virgil was denied the chance to gain a prominent position in the race. In other words, he was denied a fair start. It couldn't have been more obvious but Lamb, was "Happppy"to let them go. Blatant error to my eye. Surely, getting the basics right is a fundamental part of his role. If he can't do that, he needs to stand down and let a replacement get it right. I've lost count at the number of farcical starts Lamb has said "Happpppy" to. I think he's under pressure from the clock and that's at the heart of some of these farcical starts. I'm confident Virgil will be declared a late scratching which will be cold comfort for some. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Joe Kidd said: I'm confident Virgil will be declared a late scratching which will be cold comfort for some. looks like they deem it got a fair start which is equally bizarre actually i think it was a full moon last night Edited March 22, 2019 by Rangatira 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kidd Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 I see that. I must have been watching a different race. The race I watched had Virgil drawn 3 where he could have a dig for the top or at the very least secure a prominent position. I thought he was at least one and a half lengths off the arm at the start due to the 1 horse Copperfield checking him in the run up when that horse galloped. To my eye that is a clear case of Virgil being denied a fair start. I feel for any punter who sent this horse out second favourite in no small way due to the good draw. They have good cause to feel aggrieved. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furlong Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 This starter is so bad that I I am beginning to think the frequent farcical starts are tote driven, by alias of course. If he is just plain inept then why don't they get rid of him? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopia Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) How the fck can a guy who is allegedly a stipendiary steward also be a race starter? Isnt this a huge conflict? Does nobody get this? Godber, pull your head out of your ass and do something about it you waste of space.? Edited March 22, 2019 by Kopia spelling 4 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Kopia said: How the fck can a guy who is allegedly a stipendiary steward also be a race starter? Isnt this a huge conflict? Does nobody get this? Godber, pull your head out of your ass and do something about it you waste of space.? pretty sure he is a different kind of stipendiary steward Edited March 22, 2019 by Rangatira 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Who made the decision not to late scratch virgil. Certainly not peter lamb. How they did not come to a conclusion that virgil was denied a fair start is a mystery. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDWHITEMAN Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Furlong said: This starter is so bad that I I am beginning to think the frequent farcical starts are tote driven, by alias of course. If he is just plain inept then why don't they get rid of him? We have had this discussion countless times. Lamb is useless but he is untouchable. For some reason he is a protected species, the worst starter Addington has ever had, yet he is unaccountable for his numerous stuff ups (at least one a meeting). Unfortunately, we are stuck with the inept idiot until he decides to retire, hopefully that is soon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kidd Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) The driver of Virgil gave evidence that her drive was not denied a fair start so was declared a starter. Really Sam? Mmmm. Interesting. I know what I witnessed and so do others. The stable ran 1st, 2nd,3rd and fourth so won't be disappointed with the outcome. What do they have to gain by making a fuss and highlighting the dubious actions of the starter? The stable would have gained nothing but may well have highlighted and humiliated Lamb. Surely the stipes could see for themselves and remove any potential "issues" by making the call? It seems now by this ruling that draws have no relevance to the race outcome and effectively a second row draw is no different to a front line draw. To my eye, the stipes and "others" have said an enormous FUCK YOU to punters and have only compounded Lamb's error. I ask these questions. If Virgil had been the only stable runner in the race, would they still be saying "no problem"? If the horse had one final chance to qualify for a feature race and the result last night meant they were denied that would they still be saying "no problem"? If the owners of Virgil had punted the horse big which they may have, would they still be saying "no problem"? Blind Freddy could see Virgil had not filled his 3 spot on the front line when the started said go. We could see that was due to being checked when the one horse galloped in the score up. A.B.C stuff surely? What am I missing? Woeful all round. Just to confirm, I didn't wager in the race myself but did watch with interest. A new benchmark has now been set and no real need for any starters to declare a false start now. Farcical is the word that comes to mind. It's my opinion that Lamb feels the pressure of the TAB race scheduling and the clock is causing him to say "happppppy" when clearly things are not as they should be. Race Comments Race 1 GARRARDS SIRES STAKES SERIES NO.36 (HEAT 1) MOBILE PACE Video COPPERFIELD - broke in the score up and shifted outwards checking outside runners. A warning was placed on the barrier record of the gelding. ONE CHANGE - checked in the score up but was able to regain its rightful position at the start. VIRGIL - checked in the score up and as a result was a length out of position at the start. Stewards lodged a Request for a Ruling with the JCA to determine whether VIRGIL had been denied a fair start. After viewing the replays and hearing evidence from driver S Ottley and Stewards, the JCA declared the horse a starter. ABOVE N BEYOND - held up throughout the run home. Driver J Dunn advised the deafeners were not activated in consequence. THE POWER OF PRAYER - over-raced and hung outwards rounding the first bend. FLYING EVEN BETTOR - raced greenly when being taken forward to lead near the 1400 metres. https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=261829 Edited March 22, 2019 by Joe Kidd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 so using the race 1 lamb methodology why was race 2 a false start ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDWHITEMAN Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Joe Kidd said: The driver of Virgil gave evidence that her drive was not denied a fair start so was declared a starter. Really Sam? [clipped) There is little Ms Ottley can say, or any horse person whether a trainer or driver, regarding P. Lamb. All that you say is true but that is immaterial. P. Lamb does not have to answer to anyone. NZHR has failed to take any action over his many, many poor starts so they are not going to change now. Any criticism of Lamb, however justified, is not tolerated. I remember Mark Jones said negative things about P. Lamb on The Box Seat years ago. Mr Jones' comments were true but he had too quickly recant his words so clearly he was reprimanded by high up officialdom. All horse people know this and have to toe the line. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Would connections have been paid the $550 starting fee if it had been declared a non starter? Would sam ottley have lost her driving fee if the horse was declared a non starter. Are they factors. Was peter lamb the 3rd gunman on the grassy Knoll in dallas when jfk was shot? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, the galah said: 1.Would connections have been paid the $550 starting fee if it had been declared a non starter? 2. Would sam ottley have lost her driving fee if the horse was declared a non starter. 3. Are they factors. 4. Was peter lamb the 3rd gunman on the grassy Knoll in dallas when jfk was shot? 1. No - owners would have got nothing 2. No - driver still gets paid 3. IDK 4. Response redacted Edited March 23, 2019 by Taku Umanga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kidd Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 2 hours ago, the galah said: Would connections have been paid the $550 starting fee if it had been declared a non starter? Would sam ottley have lost her driving fee if the horse was declared a non starter. Are they factors. Was peter lamb the 3rd gunman on the grassy Knoll in dallas when jfk was shot? Good Q's. I wondered if the stablemate holding third would have been questioned if Sam had said yes, that gallop in the score up did cost me at least a placing. Do they have to prove they would have beaten the runner that interfered with them? Even if they did, what happens in the score up has never resulted in a horse being relegated has it as the race hadn't technically started? That aside, I can't think of many protests over the years against a stablemate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 If you look at run up to the start, you will see that Copperfield goes into a gallop! He is clearly steered to go right so that it checks horses outside of him, so that he will get a false start!! The fact is that the 2 outside of Copperfield both get checked and Vergil despite urgings was never going to be in its right spot at despatch! Yes it should’ve been a false start but the fact that it was a AllStar affair I don’t beleive that Mr Lamb really cared! You will see it all the time, when a horse Gallops in the run up, the drivers steer the horse sideways so that they check another horse, therefore getting a false start! I believe this is a major issue that one day will ave a horse injured!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kidd Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Brodie said: If you look at run up to the start, you will see that Copperfield goes into a gallop! He is clearly steered to go right so that it checks horses outside of him, so that he will get a false start!! The fact is that the 2 outside of Copperfield both get checked and Vergil despite urgings was never going to be in its right spot at despatch! Yes it should’ve been a false start but the fact that it was a AllStar affair I don’t beleive that Mr Lamb really cared! You will see it all the time, when a horse Gallops in the run up, the drivers steer the horse sideways so that they check another horse, therefore getting a false start! I believe this is a major issue that one day will ave a horse injured!! I half agree with you Brodie, I've seen drivers do exactly as you describe so many times it's almost expected. To be fair, I'd do it myself. Don't agree with Lamb making his call due to it being just another AS runner. My take based in the order I feel is most likely. 1) He feels considerable pressure to start the races as near to the advertised time as possible and feels any delays reflect on him. As a result we often have farcical starts. 2) He felt Virgil had every chance to get back on the gate. 3) He had his head up his arse and was more interested in saying "righttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt" the correct way and didn't actually notice how and why Virgil had gone off stride. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 As you know any race that has so many AllStars horses in it, is going to be controversial! The TAB needs to sort out the racing timetable and screening of races on a busy night when there are 2 Harness meetings and a dogs meeting! We were told that we were going to get a better service when we had the 2 channels but that hasn’t occurred! we need to get these starts sorted and do we really give a rats if we don’t see greyhounds walking around to their starting boxes and having a dump?? If there are 2 Harness meetings then put them on the same channel and the dogs on the other channel, as I don’t beleive that harness enthusiasts want to see the dogs races, unless they are compulsive gamblers! Get rid of the racing from U.S.A. As well as not worth the time spent on it and no one knows the damn horses anyway!! Trackside needs to concentrate on the local product! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kidd Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 47 minutes ago, Brodie said: As you know any race that has so many AllStars horses in it, is going to be controversial! The TAB needs to sort out the racing timetable and screening of races on a busy night when there are 2 Harness meetings and a dogs meeting! We were told that we were going to get a better service when we had the 2 channels but that hasn’t occurred! we need to get these starts sorted and do we really give a rats if we don’t see greyhounds walking around to their starting boxes and having a dump?? If there are 2 Harness meetings then put them on the same channel and the dogs on the other channel, as I don’t beleive that harness enthusiasts want to see the dogs races, unless they are compulsive gamblers! Get rid of the racing from U.S.A. As well as not worth the time spent on it and no one knows the damn horses anyway!! Trackside needs to concentrate on the local product! I should declare my hand Brodie and admit that I can't stand dog racing. The wall to wall stuff turns me cold as does some of the disgraceful antics a few of the trainers get involved with. Live baiting and the way thousands of dogs have been sent to the here after has helped turn me off the sport. I believe they deserve their own channel they can enjoy to their hearts content without turning the stomachs of many non dog punters. The way Trackside have totally screwed the channels is a far king disgrace. The same race being shown on both channels while another race gets no coverage due to them showing previews or old replays on the other channel is farcical etc etc etc. Nothing is going to change any time soon. Dog races are quick and often so it's turnover for Trackside and that as you know Brodie is their ONLY consideration / priority. They would have betting on rats running up drain pipes if they could organize it to happen often enough and encourage enough compulsive gamblers to "invest" on it. Here we have the 2.20 rat race from plonkersville. At drainpipe one is Fifthly Vermin, drainpipe two is Latrine Rodent, Drainpipe three is Stinking Rat and in drainpipe four is the veteran of the field, Bubonic Plague. Calling this afternoons feature is Pied Piper. Yes, the farcical American races. OMFG. Happy to watch the Kentucky Derby and Breeders etc but what they are serving up more and more is just the dregs. Pure crap. When do the goat races from Afghanistan start? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) Joe Kidd, very well written, great minds think alike! I waiting for the Darksiders to come on And have a go at us! Thing is though, I am not even going to respond to them, and hopefully they will just get bored and piss off! I do know that Trackside could be just so much better for New Zealanders than what they are currently producing! There have been galloping races today from the U.S.A. That have next to nothing in the tote pools and yet we get to see this absolute crap with leadup BS! Trackside producers, what part of no one knows anything about these horses so they can bet on them , don’t you understand???? Edited March 23, 2019 by Brodie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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