Competition Moderation

[Chief Stipe]

On 12/04/2019 at 6:51 PM, The Crucible said:

Perhaps slightly inappropriate use of my editing rights but only intended as a bit of a laugh, and from what I can ascertain it has been received that way by Howie and a few others on here.

I don't think I've edited someone else's post before - I generally use my rights to pin and unpin comp threads and to lock my own comps after posting deadlines, and I like to think that generally I make a positive contribution to the comps on BOAY.

but I apologise if I crossed your line on chat site etiquette - won't do it again.

Hi

Sorry for my tardiness in replying to this issue.  I've only just clicked on what has happened as I normally work from a position of trust.

It is TOTALLY inappropriate for a competition moderator to edit someone else's post in this fashion.  More so in someone else's competition.

As I pointed out to those given competition moderation rights it is important to maintain the integrity of posts regardless if there are prizes are up grabs.

Editing posts in this fashion seriously undermines that integrity.  Up until now I've been able to avoid checking what each moderator does.  One who steps out of line risks impugning the integrity of all.

I won't tolerate that.

If I find or am alerted to a similar indiscretion then that person will lose their rights.

Sorry to post about the harshest post I have posted on BOAY to date.

The Chief Stipe 

[The Crucible]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

If I find or am alerted to a similar indiscretion then that person will lose their rights.

Please take the moderation rights away - I'm done here.

[PeterJenkins]

Guys can we please re-think this. TC made an error of judgement which he realizes now. Can we practice some forgiveness here ?

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, PeterJenkins said:

Guys can we please re-think this. TC made an error of judgement which he realizes now. Can we practice some forgiveness here ?

I have.  But I had to make the admonishment public.  Integrity of competitions is all important to me. 

The reality is that a moderator could fudge the results.  IF I wasn't DILIGENT.

When I was a competitor I realised how much time people put in to selecting.

Sadly I don't have enough time to compete anymore keeping the venue going.

The Crucible still has his rights.

[The Crucible]

2 hours ago, PeterJenkins said:

Guys can we please re-think this. TC made an error of judgement which he realizes now. Can we practice some forgiveness here ?

Cheers Peter.

I've shared a few messages with The Chief and here is what has transpired.

Based on complaints the Chief received from more than one person apparently, he thinks I have edited someone's picks in the Super Comp, hence undermining the competition and abusing my moderation rights.   He didn't think to check the facts but leapt to publish the public censure above.

Had he taken the time to investigate the complaints he would have seen that I didn't in fact edit anyone's picks - of course I would never do that.  All I did was edit Howie's post regarding the Comp front runners at the end of each round.  I added "Stranger Things" name next to the final round - quite prophetic, and completely harmless, but foolish at the same time.

However In my view not worthy of the response from the Chief - it was simply a joke and taken in the intended spirit by Howie and others in the comp.  Given my contribution to BOAY, both in terms of time and on occasions money, I would have expected slightly more gratitude than the censure displayed.  I accept that it is the Chief's site and his prerogative to do what he likes, but I wonder if he had his facts correct whether he might have responded differently.

The irony that I pointed out to the Chief is that he has censured someone who supports his site with their time and money, based on a non-issue raised by someone who runs comps for Scooby.

I know the Chief can't disclose this to me, but I'd love to know who lodged the complaints - would have been nice if they'd had the decency to raise the issue with me first.

I've had a lot of fun on BOAY and have really enjoyed the comps community.  Peter J a huge thanks to you for the Super comps - I look forward to them every week and have formed some great virtual friendships.  Some fantastic characters in these comps - the Blues brothers (Howie & Geoff), Hesi, Gordy, Steve P, Pete, Brian, Rees, my current teammates (Mo, Sandpiper & Brett), and even my current nemesis Weasel (you were growing on me mate).

Good luck to all of you left in the current Super Comp and in future Super Comps.  Over and out!

Edited April 16, 2019 by The Crucible

[Chestnut]

1 hour ago, The Crucible said:

Cheers Peter.

I've shared a few messages with The Chief and here is what has transpired.

Based on complaints the Chief received from more than one person apparently, he thinks I have edited someone's picks in the Super Comp, hence undermining the competition and abusing my moderation rights.   He didn't think to check the facts but leapt to publish the public censure above.

Had he taken the time to investigate the complaints he would have seen that I didn't in fact edit anyone's picks - of course I would never do that.  All I did was edit Howie's post regarding the Comp front runners at the end of each round.  I added "Stranger Things" name next to the final round - quite prophetic, and completely harmless, but foolish at the same time.

However In my view not worthy of the response from the Chief - it was simply a joke and taken in the intended spirit by Howie and others in the comp.  Given my contribution to BOAY, both in terms of time and on occasions money, I would have expected slightly more gratitude than the censure displayed.  I accept that it is the Chief's site and his prerogative to do what he likes, but I wonder if he had his facts correct whether he might have responded differently.

The irony that I pointed out to the Chief is that he has censured someone who supports his site with their time and money, based on a non-issue raised by someone who runs comps for Scooby.

I know the Chief can't disclose this to me, but I'd love to know who lodged the complaints - would have been nice if they'd had the decency to raise the issue with me first.

I've had a lot of fun on BOAY and have really enjoyed the comps community.  Peter J a huge thanks to you for the Super comps - I look forward to them every week and have formed some great virtual friendships.  Some fantastic characters in these comps - the Blues brothers (Howie & Geoff), Hesi, Gordy, Steve P, Pete, Brian, Rees, my current teammates (Mo, Sandpiper & Brett), and even my current nemesis Weasel (you were growing on me mate).

Good luck to all of you left in the current Super Comp and in future Super Comps.  Over and out!

Really TC, you think that little of me?   Yes I run comps, just like many others on here do on other forums for people to enjoy because that is what it's about isn't it?  People should be able to go where they want and enjoy what forums offer for the love of racing.

I pointed out my thoughts on your edit, in the thread and that was that.      But then I guess I'm just a someone so what does it matter.

Thanks.

 

 

[N1MUE]

TC runs (or ran) comps on here alone - he doesn't run comps on either of the other two sites (in fact he doesn't subscribe to either of the other sites).  Probably not unreasonable to expect a little more from the guy whose site he has exclusively supported from the outset.

Personally I think you made a mountain out of a molehill re TC editing Howie's post, but TC apologised and so we move on.

I wouldn't be too precious about the someone thing - he referred to himself as "someone' in that same sentence - we're all just someone I guess.

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by N1MUE

[Chestnut]

7 minutes ago, N1MUE said:

TC runs (or ran) comps on here alone - he doesn't run comps on either of the other two sites (in fact he doesn't subscribe to either of the other sites).  Probably not unreasonable to expect a little more from the guy whose site he has exclusively supported from the outset.

Personally I think you made a mountain out of a molehill re TC editing Howie's post, but TC apologised and so we move on.

I wouldn't be too precious about the someone thing - he referred to himself as "someone' in that same sentence - we're all just someone I guess.

 

Okay John, fair enough.   I said what I needed to in the post at the time, it was one post and yes I thought we had moved on.

All the best in the Semi Finals.

 

[Weasel]

Good evening from Bedrock.

Sadness and gloom here tonight, as I catch up with the debacle of The Crucible choosing to depart. Here's my tuppence worth.

Everyone Has Over-Reacted. The initial post from TC was intended to be a joke, was spotted by Chestnut and 'called out'. TC admitted the error, apologised and made a commitment to 'not do it again'. That should have been End of Story. But no, The Chief over-reacts in a well-meaning attempt to assert the importance of Integrity .. and next thing you know the bunfight begins and everyone wants to throw the toys out of the cot. ALL SO UNNECESSARY. UNHELPFUL. UNKIND. WHERE IS THE LOVE, GOOD PEOPLE?

Personally, I'd like to see TC return. i think it's important that he does. (Do I have to start a petition?) I mean, in his finale from the Departure Lounge, he even called me his 'current nemesis' and his mate ...  we can't develop our mateship if he doesn't come back!!!! ...

And that word means a lot to this Mustelid. In an online community of people you don't know in the real world, we Weasels really value our mates.

So ..I'd like CS to make peace with TC, and TC to say all is forgiven and learn the lesson; and I'd like My Friend Maria The Chestnut to continue being her usual alert, kind, tolerant and wise self and have a hugely successful match this weekend in the Super Comp (and go H2H with Mustelid Maximus in the Final. LOL). 

And thats a lot of words for just tuppence. Thanks!

MM

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Weasel

[Chief Stipe]

I'd like to make a few points clearer if you will allow me to.

1. I didn't accuse The Crucible of altering someone's "picks" however I did refer to the fact that he had altered someone's "post."  A fact that he freely admits.
2. The Crucible still has competition moderation rights and they haven't been revoked since the indiscretion was bought to my attention.

When I set up the Competition Moderators role I made it quite clear that it came with some responsibility and integrity was important to BOAY.  More on that later.

So I specifically said not to alter posts but feel free to HIDE posts if they transgress your competition rules or standards.  DO NOT delete them.  The rationale for this approach was inevitably I would be called upon to adjudicate over a complaint.

I accept that the altering of the post was a joke.  However I have no idea what the original post said as it was altered by a moderator.  Altered appears to be an understatement as it was completely rewritten I gather.  I may be wrong because I don't know what the original post said.

With regard to integrity I have had bad experiences with another site regarding competitions and I don't want that to happen here.  Hence my strong response which some of you deem to be over the top.  My apologies if you consider it so.

I apologise to The Crucible as he has taken offence and taken personally my response.  However I felt I needed to make it clear to ALL competition entrants and moderators that altering posts was not condoned.

It wasn't long ago that many of us came to BOAY from another forum where posters had their posts altered, their avatars manipulated and their personal messages read and used against them by the site owner.  In that context I do not think my reaction is over the top.

To  reiterate one point The Crucible still has his moderation rights.  He is free to continue to do the fine job he has done until now.  The choice is his.

[N1MUE]

TC has asked me to make a few things clear from his perspective and then leave it at that:

 

You say:  "You didn't accuse The Crucible of altering someone's picks"

That is not the truth - TC has shown me the message that you sent to him - you clearly accuse him of rewriting someone's picks.  As TC suggested, you wouldn't have reacted this way if you'd known what was actually edited. You chose to believe what others told you and now you appear unable to admit that.

 

You say:   "Altered appears to be an understatement as it was completely rewritten I gather."

How can you gather that it was completely rewritten?  TC has told you quite clearly what he altered - it was one very minor detail.  Do you not believe him?  Why don't you check with the guy who wrote the post originally (Howie)?

 

I was also given Moderation rights but like TC I didn't ask for them.  I no longer have any need for them so please take them away from me as well.

[Chief Stipe]

In the first instance I sent a copy of the post I made online to him as follows:

Hi

Sorry for my tardiness in replying to this issue.  I've only just clicked on what has happened as I normally work from a position of trust.

It is TOTALLY inappropriate for a competition moderator to edit someone else's post in this fashion.  More so in someone else's competition.

As I pointed out to those given competition moderation rights it is important to maintain the integrity of posts regardless if there are prizes are up grabs.

Editing posts in this fashion seriously undermines that integrity.  Up until now I've been able to avoid checking what each moderator does.  One who steps out of line risks impugning the integrity of all.

I won't tolerate that.

If I find or am alerted to a similar indiscretion then that person will lose their rights.

Sorry to post about the harshest post I have posted on BOAY to date.

The Chief Stipe 

 

____________________________

This is the PM that he has misinterpreted and as I have subsequently pointed out given he altered the post how would I know what it was as there is not backup!!  Sorry for missing out a comma!:

"Excuse me but in a competition where everyone is relying on everyone's picks remaining as posted before closing time you choose to completely rewrite one!!

What message does that send to everyone?

Not only that it wasnt your competition.

As for who dobbed you in it wasn't one person and it is irrelevant who they are.  The point you need to take on board is that people noticed which reinforces the fact that such behaviour undermines integrity."

[Steve Paul]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

"Excuse me but in a competition where everyone is relying on everyone's picks remaining as posted before closing time you choose to completely rewrite one!!

How could this be misinterpreted?

The clear inference is that someones picks were altered, this never happened?

Am I missing something?

Steve.

[Weasel]

And am I missing something? (Mustelids generally don't miss anything important!)

My understanding is that TC (rather injudiciously) changed only the last line of Howie's post re which side was leading the Super Draft comp week by week ...replacing 'Too Fast Again' with 'Stranger Things' at the end of the final round of qualifying ...nothing to do with picks being changed. Nothin' at all, at all at all." as my Irish cousin Paddy O'Mustelid would say.

MM

PS: Kiss and make up, please. It's so much more fun when people are kind to each other.

[Chief Stipe]

I've apologised but what I will say now is this type of stuff is getting somewhat tiresome.  I'm not going to bother debating semantics either.

To quote another poster TC made an error in judgement.  I felt I had no option to restate the rules in order to maintain the integrity of competitions.

Weasel the point I was trying to make is if a moderator edits someone else's post then it isn't a good look in a competition.  When I looked at the post I had no idea what had been changed from the original.  Hence the guidance I gave a the beginning in comps it is best to hide something that is offensive rather than edit it.

What I also found troubling was the unnecessary angst directed at Marie.  I've never had any issue with her running a competition on another site and I must say I have found her to be one of the better members of BOAY.

Chaps BOAY doesn't have that many rules in place and I note that each of the protagonists in this latest "drama" would have been long gone if I applied other forums standards.  Please be grateful for what you have.

 

[Styx]

Hello folks.

Sad to read of developments with this one as I had thought we were back to focusing on the enjoyment of what is another first-class PJ Super Comp.

TC had alerted me himself to the editing which I hadn't actually seen at that stage, an editing which had only been done to add humour in the build-up to the coming Saturday's competition as many of us do between Saturday comp days. TC said to me that on reflection he hadn't done the right thing this one time, he apologised, offered to change my post back to the way it had originally been submitted, and said he would never do such an editing again. 

That was perfectly, perfectly fine with me, as I told TC. I have major stressful things going on in my personal life away from horseracing, and major stresses in my worklife, so PJ Super Comps are a very welcome sanctuary for me week-by-week away from all that, so TC taking out a 'smiley face' and inserting the words 'Stranger Things' was hardly going to ruffle me even one jot. Very, very, very minor in the scheme of things, knowing TC as I do, and I told TC so. I appreciated the way he had handled the situation. We all make mistakes.

That's right ….the`editing amounted solely to where I had the words 'Round 14' and I had inserted a smiley face as we didn't know the Round 14 comp leader yet, TC had simply replaced the smiley face with the name of his own team. (Which was certainly prophetic, as Stranger Things came from 4th to actually be the Round 14 Comp Leader, as it transpired, but I digress).

So the editing was nothing more than that.  

Very sad that TC has pulled the pin, as is a top bloke, a man of integrity and has contributed massively to the PJ Super Comps over the many years. Just as I do with my Blues Brother Geoff, I hope that TC will be back. Won't be the same without him.

[N1MUE]

I'm done here as well.  The events of the past day or so have revealed an awful lot and I can't support a site that tolerates all sorts of shit stirring in the name of free speech, then turns around and treats one of its most loyal and passionate members like a piece of crap.

I'll finish by saying that just because you include the words "I apologise" in a post that contains a blatant lie, a series of howevers and buts and all sorts of obfuscation, that doesn't make it an apology.  Read it again Chief and then tell us with a straight face that you apologised to TC.

Good luck with your site going forward!

 

[Mo Salah]

5 hours ago, Steve Paul said:

How could this be misinterpreted?

The clear inference is that someones picks were altered, this never happened?

Am I missing something?

Steve.

Well said Steve.  Not a bad bloke for a City supporter - good luck tomorrow.  I figure you can have tomorrow's game and let Spurs have the game at the weekend

Farewell TC & John - fully understand your decision - all the best - YNWA!

[Turny]

This is all very sad - can't we all just move on.

Poor PJ - gives many of us so much pleasure every Saturday

Baby and bath water rings

Move on team, it's Saturdays fun

Let's not lose what we love

Chiefs views are not what I share with one poster, but I have moved on for the good of the site

Move on team - life should be fun and so should PJs Saturday

PJ is a bloody legend for all of us

Baby and bathwater

Edited April 17, 2019 by Turny

[Mooncoin]

Babies being the operative word here!!As Turny said life is to short, so  let's just stack this on the appropriate shelf and move on.Bring the toys back guys as we all still want to play

[hesi]

1 hour ago, N1MUE said:

I'm done here as well.  The events of the past day or so have revealed an awful lot and I can't support a site that tolerates all sorts of shit stirring in the name of free speech, then turns around and treats one of its most loyal and passionate members like a piece of crap.

I'll finish by saying that just because you include the words "I apologise" in a post that contains a blatant lie, a series of howevers and buts and all sorts of obfuscation, that doesn't make it an apology.  Read it again Chief and then tell us with a straight face that you apologised to TC.

Good luck with your site going forward!

 

Touche

And I did quite a bit of arm twisting to get PJ to bring his comps here, and John and TC to initially run comps on here(which they did admirably), and also a fair bit of vouching for John and TC's unquestioned integrity, such that they could run comps here, which meant Comp moderation rights.

Anyone that knows John and TC through their dealings with them on these comps, knows that inferring in public their honesty and integrity was in anyway in question, was always going to bring the house tumbling down

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by hesi

[VC!]

10 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'd like to make a few points clearer if you will allow me to.

1. I didn't accuse The Crucible of altering someone's "picks" however

   7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

    

   "Excuse me but in a competition where everyone is relying on everyone's picks remaining as posted before closing time you choose to completely rewrite one!!

    

   .

Oh deary deary me!!!!!!!!!

[Weasel]

47 minutes ago, hesi said:

Touche

And I did quite a bit of arm twisting to get PJ to bring his comps here, and John and TC to initially run comps on here(which they did admirably), and also a fair bit of vouching for John and TC's unquestioned integrity, such that they could run comps here, which meant Comp moderation rights.

Anyone that knows John and TC through their dealings with them on these comps, knows that inferring in public their honesty and integrity was in anyway in question, was always going to bring the house tumbling down

 

and highly ironic, Hesi,  that having done your darnedest to sabotage BOAY for your own new (defunct) site you 'quit' BOAY last weekend but can't help yourself and cant resist having one more crack. Disappointing. 

[hesi]

10 hours ago, Weasel said:

and highly ironic, Hesi,  that having done your darnedest to sabotage BOAY for your own new (defunct) site you 'quit' BOAY last weekend but can't help yourself and cant resist having one more crack. Disappointing. 

Give it a rest will ya Maxi.  I said probably my last post, but felt the need to support N1MUE and TC, seeing as I asked them to run comps on BOAY in the first place

[Chief Stipe]

I think your avatar sums you up Hesi - The Grim Reaper.

For those who think TC has been hard done well that's your opinion.

I posted what I thought was a reasonable response to some complaints I had about a competition moderator editing another posters post because I felt it was important to clarify what the rules were.  Also I felt strongly that the integrity of comps was important.  Because of the way that post was edited I had no idea what was added or missing.  That is the danger of editing someone else's posts.  That is the most salient point of this "drama."

I don't know TC or "John" or any of the other Hesi chums.  However with the undermining and under current that has been going on BOAY in hindsight it was inevitable that my response lit the touch paper.

Subsequently personal messages were shared and taken out of context.  As always people have taken sides and distorted and embellished what has happened.  So now it becomes a situation where I have said stuff that I didn't say or inferred stuff I didn't mean to infer.

In my opinion this was inevitable knowing what Hesi has been doing behind the scenes that this would happen.  Just remember Hesi if it had been RaceCafe you would have had your access rights removed, your avatar changed (lapdog was it?), YOUR POSTS EDITED and your personal messages read and used against you.