Joe Kidd Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 I put this out there for folk to decide for themselves. I will declare I had no wager on the event myself. Race 3 @ the Mot. Andrew Stuart had two runners. Pay Me Visa who looked a reasonable chance and stablemate Ohoka Matty who was drawn the outside of the second row. A very poor draw indeed for a horse who has missed winning several races over the last season when stamina was needed in the home straight after enjoying an easy time of it. When he finally did win it was at Reefton when drawn 4. Few expected Ohoka Matty to be in the finish today from that draw especially. Change Is Good for John Dunn looked a very strong chance from the draw and that was reflected in the betting. Horse trained by Mitch Kerr in the Mitch Kerr Pace. Pay Me Visa also attracted a lot of support late where as stablemate Ohoka Matty attracted no late support at all. It was friendless.. One thing we can say for certain is that Andrew Stuart would have been aware of exactly who his biggest danger was. The horse most of the money came for. Change Is Good. So off they go and Change Is Good has an uncontested lead. Most would recognize that John Dunn would not surrender the controlling spot from the front without a fight so if you're going to have a crack you need a runner with stamina. Who is that runner going to be? Surprise surprise. It was Ohoka Matty of all horses. Went at the 1400 from a long way off the leader with a full head of steam and really put it to Change Is Good. I found these tactics with this horse VERY surprising. It was of course a race to the finish, NOT a race to the home turn. Ohoka Matty attacked Change Is Good again at the 500 and was then out of fuel at the 300. The winning post at the Mot has not been moved so a miscalculation of distance by the driver who knows the horse well? Finished down the track 12 lengths from the winner and will sleep very well tonight. He was the first horse to turn around and head back after the finish. The finish. Pay Me Visa manages to get up and beat Change Is Good late by half a head after enjoying an easy run for Blair Orange. Very good drive by Blair as we've come to expect. It's my opinion that if you ran that race again 100 times without the actions of Ohoka Matty, the stablemate Pay Me Visa would not have beaten Change Is Good in any of the 100 reruns. Probably just a coincidence but there have been questions asked of certain trainers and drivers in the last few months and some of those questions involve participants in this race and are at this time, unresolved. My question. Was Ohoka Matty driven in a manner best suited to that horse obtaining the best possible placing.........or did he get the job done in other ways? https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=263987 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Pay me visa not won a race for ages, so stable would hardly be confident. Stuart, Orange and Dunn, mmmmm surely all above board 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 I actually had Change as good down as a clear top pick,and had ohoka matty rated as 4th selection. I believe the tactics used on ohoka matty were not intended to help anyone except ohoka matty. Unfortunately Mr alford put all his eggs in one basket and he came unstuck when he could not get the lead. I think had he just sat outside the leader he was a good place hope. I had no issues with his intent,even if it did cost the horse I had backed the win. Personally I think John dunn made an error in not giving the lead away given the speed at which Ohoka matty came mid race,and given he all but crossed him. Every driver of a horse that all but crosses the horse to his inside always presses on for a bit because they think they can get the lead . Personally I think the fact that mr alford has the confidence to give such tactics a go is a positive for his future driving. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, the galah said: I actually had Change as good down as a clear top pick,and had ohoka matty rated as 4th selection. I believe the tactics used on ohoka matty were not intended to help anyone except ohoka matty. Unfortunately Mr alford put all his eggs in one basket and he came unstuck when he could not get the lead. I think had he just sat outside the leader he was a good place hope. I had no issues with his intent,even if it did cost the horse I had backed the win. Personally I think John dunn made an error in not giving the lead away given the speed at which Ohoka matty came mid race,and given he all but crossed him. Every driver of a horse that all but crosses the horse to his inside always presses on for a bit because they think they can get the lead . Personally I think the fact that mr alford has the confidence to give such tactics a go is a positive for his future driving. You are very knowledgeable about punting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 For me on the sideline it did concern me the Ohoka Matty driving tactics - I had an investment on the Kerr horse so watched the race . To have a couple of big digs for the lead when no chance to get the lead the first time and when the horse is not up to do that makes u think maybe it was driven for a result which was not the result I wanted . The attacking definitely won the race for the stablemate . May all be above board but for me one horse was driven for his stablemate . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, LongOwner said: For me on the sideline it did concern me the Ohoka Matty driving tactics - I had an investment on the Kerr horse so watched the race . To have a couple of big digs for the lead when no chance to get the lead the first time and when the horse is not up to do that makes u think maybe it was driven for a result which was not the result I wanted . The attacking definitely won the race for the stablemate . May all be above board but for me one horse was driven for his stablemate . If you accept that he had a dig for the lead,as you say, then had he been successful in his intent of getting the lead, he would then have placed the stablemate further back on the fence and in a worse position. Dunns tactics of keeping the lead,despite being almost crossed, is what also played into the hands of the eventual winner. Made for an exciting race whichever way you view it. Edited April 22, 2019 by the galah 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kidd Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 8 hours ago, the galah said: If you accept that he had a dig for the lead,as you say, then had he been successful in his intent of getting the lead, he would then have placed the stablemate further back on the fence and in a worse position. Dunns tactics of keeping the lead,despite being almost crossed, is what also played into the hands of the eventual winner. Made for an exciting race whichever way you view it. I invited opinions on what unfolded and yours does have some merit but overall I believe you're incorrect in two important aspects. One being that John Dunn contributed to his own downfall and that Ohoka Matty was being authentic in terms of being driven in the best manner to obtain the best outcome for himself . I've watched a million races over the years where stablemates are in the field. It's not rare for one of the runners to need to be covered up to show it's best while the stablemate can work and still be in the finish. One may need a genuine pace while the other prefers a more sedate affair. Seeing stablemates and or family members assisting each other in races has become a pet hate of mine. It's rife. One minor bit of assistance during the race can make the difference between a stablemate winning and being beaten. I agree that the driver of Ohoka Matty made the race more exciting but since when has that been a priority? Obtaining the best possible placing in the priority isn't it? When I arrive at a conclusion with these types of events I look at a horses previous record and where and how it finished after it's deeds. You say you marked Ohoka Matty as fourth selection. Fair enough but I feel the punters got it right when they made it 11th in the betting out of 14. Horse is not known for it's stamina. It had a terrible draw. Question marks on it's form and the driver will not have most punters reaching for their wallet. More likely they would be reaching for Rosary Beads I've seen Blair Orange drive Ohoka Matty quietly during races several times and the horse still get run over. Caller Mark McNamara stated more than once previously during races, "was this the day Ohoka Matty got it's win?". Working and winning has not been the horses forte. I would have expected that had O.M won yesterday it would have needed to get a drag into the race with cover and then things fall into place in the run home with gaps opening up at the right time. Seeing the horse rush around the field from the back with no cover was a genuine shock to me. It immediately got my radar up. Driver was not looking for cover even when it got outside the leader. One could be forgiven for thinking he was driving a horse like Lazarus with those tactics. Should also be remembered the horse in front was being driven by John Dunn a noted front running driver who does not generally hand up. You'd agree that most drivers are fully aware what their charge has done during the race and how much fuel they have remaining? Go look at Ohoka Matty at the 500 after working so hard leading up to that point. He knows the sharp end of the race is coming up with the Mot straight yet he presses on for another dig for the front. Surely he could see that the leader was not spent and know he needed to box smart yet shortly after his charge starts to tire and is gone with 300 metres still to run. Did he misjudge the distance of the home straight and how much fuel O.M had left? The horse was tired and finished a well beaten 12 lengths behind his stablemate. You feel that performance was authentic. I don't share that view. The fact it's stablemate benefited from what unfolded by getting up late to narrowly beat the horse O.M had attacked may just be a coincidence...... but maybe not. One thing for sure. it was unmistakably the difference between Pay Me Visa winning and running a placing. As for John Dunn's tactics. His charge had the perfect draw to lead so no surprise whatsoever to see that unfold. John Dunn obviously spends time studying his opposition as most of the better drivers do. He has the lead and control of the race. If he is going to hand up and potentially lose control of a race he has at his mercy, it must only be to the right horse. You feel that right horse was O.M. I disagree. Dunn would almost certainly know O.M would likely faint and he find himself in a hopeless position getting dragged out of contention. You see that as being a viable option. I didn't and neither did John Dunn. I feel John did everything to win the race and was stiff to get rolled especially due to the actions of a well beaten Ohoka Matty. That's how I say the race anyway. It would be a tad boring if we all agreed with each other Let me take you all the way back to 1988. Dillon Dean was the pride and joy of Don Dwyer. They win the NZ Derby at Addington beating the Purdon trained Godfrey. Along comes the Great Northern Derby. How can the result be reversed? Duel Fuel, another Purdon runner went out and attacked Dillon Dean in front and harassed him for most of the race. MM couldn't hand up as there was no passing lane and no doubt Duel Fuel would have handed up himself shortly after getting to the top. They turn for home and Duel Fuel is exhausted and ran a distant last. By far the worst run of it's career. Godfrey on the other hand who had been quietly smoking the pipe got up very late for Tony H to narrowly beat Dillon Dean. Coincidence? I think not. Cheers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 We all see things different,which I think is a good thing. I don't mind debating race tactic's because its a subject that I find interesting. I would point out that when ohoka matty won its race it was used up a lot in front yet kept going to win. You say he should not have put the accelerator down with 500m to go,after attacking earlier in the race,i fully agree there. Just a bit of poor judgment,given he was already on the front end,however that's all that was. The fact that the horse responded and was able to go 2 1/2 lengths clear of the field with the dunn driven horse turning for home,simply confirmed my view that Dunn would have got the perfect sit had he elected to trail ohoka matty earlier in the race. Given Ohoka mattys performance of sticking on until the 250m after doing a lot of work ,in my view confirmed my rating of his chances pre race,in that particular field. I agree with your dislike of team driving,its just I don't believe it ever entered the mind of mr Alford. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 21 hours ago, Joe Kidd said: I put this out there for folk to decide for themselves. I will declare I had no wager on the event myself. Race 3 @ the Mot. Andrew Stuart had two runners. Pay Me Visa who looked a reasonable chance and stablemate Ohoka Matty who was drawn the outside of the second row. A very poor draw indeed for a horse who has missed winning several races over the last season when stamina was needed in the home straight after enjoying an easy time of it. When he finally did win it was at Reefton when drawn 4. Few expected Ohoka Matty to be in the finish today from that draw especially. Change Is Good for John Dunn looked a very strong chance from the draw and that was reflected in the betting. Horse trained by Mitch Kerr in the Mitch Kerr Pace. Pay Me Visa also attracted a lot of support late where as stablemate Ohoka Matty attracted no late support at all. It was friendless.. One thing we can say for certain is that Andrew Stuart would have been aware of exactly who his biggest danger was. The horse most of the money came for. Change Is Good. So off they go and Change Is Good has an uncontested lead. Most would recognize that John Dunn would not surrender the controlling spot from the front without a fight so if you're going to have a crack you need a runner with stamina. Who is that runner going to be? Surprise surprise. It was Ohoka Matty of all horses. Went at the 1400 from a long way off the leader with a full head of steam and really put it to Change Is Good. I found these tactics with this horse VERY surprising. It was of course a race to the finish, NOT a race to the home turn. Ohoka Matty attacked Change Is Good again at the 500 and was then out of fuel at the 300. The winning post at the Mot has not been moved so a miscalculation of distance by the driver who knows the horse well? Finished down the track 12 lengths from the winner and will sleep very well tonight. He was the first horse to turn around and head back after the finish. The finish. Pay Me Visa manages to get up and beat Change Is Good late by half a head after enjoying an easy run for Blair Orange. Very good drive by Blair as we've come to expect. It's my opinion that if you ran that race again 100 times without the actions of Ohoka Matty, the stablemate Pay Me Visa would not have beaten Change Is Good in any of the 100 reruns. Probably just a coincidence but there have been questions asked of certain trainers and drivers in the last few months and some of those questions involve participants in this race and are at this time, unresolved. My question. Was Ohoka Matty driven in a manner best suited to that horse obtaining the best possible placing.........or did he get the job done in other ways? https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=263987 Now you know why we had operation inca. the ring leader trainer with a family history of gaining money by dubious means and his "team player " of a driver mate all involved here. very fishy indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Counter Punch Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Hard to say it was premeditated Whole race changed complexion when Doc Seelster galloped in score up and left Blair a gap to drop straight to the fence. That was the winning of the race. Jesse appears to be a naturally aggressive driver and isn't afraid to have a crack for the lead when driving. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Blossom lady said: Now you know why we had operation inca. the ring leader trainer with a family history of gaining money by dubious means and his "team player " of a driver mate all involved here. very fishy indeed! what are you saying here ? is this a commentary on yesterdays race or operation inca ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 37 minutes ago, Counter Punch said: Hard to say it was premeditated Whole race changed complexion when Doc Seelster galloped in score up and left Blair a gap to drop straight to the fence. That was the winning of the race. Jesse appears to be a naturally aggressive driver and isn't afraid to have a crack for the lead when driving. plus massive drop back in the rating 8 win horse racing with 2 win horses 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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